Thread: Sleep Paralysis Demystified

Well I totally botched what I was trying to say I guess. Go ahead and slam me.

So what you guys are saying is that it's impossible to fall straight into REM from a state of wakefulness?

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Are you a "sleep health doctor" by chance? If so, I'd love to see where you acquired this information.

When I say the medical term for sleep paralysis is incorrect I'm referring to the fear aspect. I understand that sleep paralysis is a real condition that people have. What I'm saying is incorrect is the idea that it has to be accompanied by a sense of fear or dread like you said here

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Was it the most, or one of the most, terrifying experiences of your life?

'Cause if not, then it probably wasn't sleep paralysis. Especially if there was a lack of open-eyed HH/HI.

Sleep paralysis does not have to be accompanied by fear. I experienced sleep paralysis twice before I knew what lucid dreaming was. I felt the fear. Later I learned about lucid dreaming. Later I learned how to WILD by inducing sleep paralysis. Since I knew what was happening there was no fear. With no panic there is no fear. I was to busy anticipating the upcoming dream. These days I pass through sleep paralysis every time I WILD and there's still no fear. I refuse to believe that I am somehow special and immune to the fear. If I can go through sleep paralysis without fear than anyone can.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Sleep paralysis is full body paralysis caused by REM atonia. I've listed common symptoms above.

Sleep paralysis isn't characterized by the sensations that occur in NREM sleep.

Therefore, to call NREM sensations sleep paralysis is wholly incorrect and inaccurate. Hence my call for a change in terminology.

My views are not as far off from yours as they appear to be. Newbies frequently mistake hypnagogic hallucinations for sleep paralysis. I know these sensations can occur before sleep paralysis and are not always tied to it. But I have never tied them to NREM before. I always thought it was just a state of deep relaxation. Maybe this deep relaxation I'm thinking of is actually stage one of NREM. I was unaware that stage one of NREM actually occurs when you are still awake. So you are probably right in that what many people think is sleep paralysis is actually NREM. But the sensations that you describe as happening during NREM can also occur during sleep paralysis.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

This is all sorts of false, but that would be attacking a strawman.

What this does tell me is that you don't seem to understand or have a basic grasp of what happens in the brain during sleep and lucidity.

Well I'm going to ask you to attack it. I don't know what happens to the brain during
sleep. I experience sleep paralysis frequently now that I've learned how to WILD. I feel I've woken during the night and I can not move. I feel like my body has disconnected from my mind. I know it's there but it feels like dead weight. I often feel a presence in the room and hear voices. When this happens I know exactly what it is so I simply relax and surrender to it and in no time at all I'm immersed in a lucid dream. But this has occurred so many times now that as soon as I realize I'm in sleep paralysis I turn my mind towards the upcoming dream and these hallucinations become part of the dream.

Do you think people can't experience sleep paralysis as their entering sleep? That it only occurs as they're waking up?

Originally Posted by dms111

Well I totally botched what I was trying to say I guess. Go ahead and slam me.

So what you guys are saying is that it's impossible to fall straight into REM from a state of wakefulness?

Technically speaking, yes.

Originally Posted by dms111

When I say the medical term for sleep paralysis is incorrect I'm referring to the fear aspect. I understand that sleep paralysis is a real condition that people have. What I'm saying is incorrect is the idea that it has to be accompanied by a sense of fear or dread like you said here

Right, that's just a commonly reported symptom and the source of many a newbie's unfounded fear. Like I pointed out in the OP, it probably has a lot to do with how the amygdala functions differently during sleep and wakefulness. Sudden shifts between these states, specifically to and from REM, can cause quite an experiential stir if the person is conscious for them.

Originally Posted by dms111

Sleep paralysis does not have to be accompanied by fear. I experienced sleep paralysis twice before I knew what lucid dreaming was. I felt the fear. Later I learned about lucid dreaming. Later I learned how to WILD by inducing sleep paralysis. Since I knew what was happening there was no fear. With no panic there is no fear. I was to busy anticipating the upcoming dream. These days I pass through sleep paralysis every time I WILD and there's still no fear. I refuse to believe that I am somehow special and immune to the fear. If I can go through sleep paralysis without fear than anyone can.

Yes, sleep paralysis can be traversed without fear, but for both first timers and those who understand what's happening, it takes a conscious effort to calm down and not freak out. The reasoning for this is simple: the malevolent presence triggers the flight or fight response, but since neither is possible fear kicks in. If the problem isn't dealt with or worked through logically, that fear will persist.

All that said, it is unusual to experience sleep paralysis during a WILD attempt. Sure most people might experience vibrations, HH, and the like, but objectively speaking a dream should have formed by then.

Originally Posted by dms111

My views are not as far off from yours as they appear to be. Newbies frequently mistake hypnagogic hallucinations for sleep paralysis. I know these sensations can occur before sleep paralysis and are not always tied to it. But I have never tied them to NREM before. I always thought it was just a state of deep relaxation. Maybe this deep relaxation I'm thinking of is actually stage one of NREM. I was unaware that stage one of NREM actually occurs when you are still awake. So you are probably right in that what many people think is sleep paralysis is actually NREM. But the sensations that you describe as happening during NREM can also occur during sleep paralysis.

Well, REM itself has a whole slew of sensations attributed to it that have nothing to do with sleep paralysis.

RobotButler provided a really cool article in one of the threads I linked to here that explains how spinning or falling sensations could potentially come about: http://www.dreamviews.com/f79/some-i...2/#post1872367

Originally Posted by dms111

Well I'm going to ask you to attack it. I don't know what happens to the brain during
sleep.

You should do some simple research into those questions, then. You might be surprised what you find. ^.^

Originally Posted by dms111

I experience sleep paralysis frequently now that I've learned how to WILD. I feel I've woken during the night and I can not move. I feel like my body has disconnected from my mind. I know it's there but it feels like dead weight. I often feel a presence in the room and hear voices. When this happens I know exactly what it is so I simply relax and surrender to it and in no time at all I'm immersed in a lucid dream. But this has occurred so many times now that as soon as I realize I'm in sleep paralysis I turn my mind towards the upcoming dream and these hallucinations become part of the dream.

Yep, all that is entirely valid, and your experience with sleep paralysis speaks volumes. With competency, knowledge, and experience, the fear can easily be overcome. Sadly, newbies often have none of those things. Which is why I tired to be clear cut with this guide.

Sleep paralysis: full body paralysis that happens every night during REM sleep; very uncommon to experience consciously, even when WILDing; source of the common fear/terror stories; not the goal of WILD.

NREM: stages before REM that always occur, even after a WBTB; common to experience effects of each stage during WILD; source of stories around audio and visual hallucinations, vibrations, etc.; dream should form somewhere here, as one passes into REM;

Originally Posted by dms111

Do you think people can't experience sleep paralysis as their entering sleep? That it only occurs as they're waking up?

No, both are possible, but the latter is more commonly reported. Of course, neither are the norm, so they shouldn't be taught as such.

Originally Posted by dms111

So what you guys are saying is that it's impossible to fall straight into REM from a state of wakefulness?

It is actually possible, but usually only associated with narcolepsy.

Originally Posted by hermine_hesse

It is actually possible, but usually only associated with narcolepsy.

^This, some people who WILD really do experience REM through a REM intrusion.

Would someone with Narcolepsy WILD more easily? Could random REM intrusion account for some successful WILDs? Or even explain why some people have a predisposition towards successful WILD?