Long time lurker here! I think I've been missing something about WILD.

**cuzero** · 02-14-2013 06:40 PM

Hello everyone!

I've been reading tutorials and threads for a long time here, and am trying to WILD for more than a month now, but I'm really struggling with it Here are some points I'd like to clarify:

- I already read most tutorials here on DV, including the Sageous one.

- I see that most of the mistakes involving WILD are usually the same for a lot of people, like trying it right out in bedtime, trying it after drinking alcohol or smoking marijuana or the urges to move or swallow saliva. Those are definitely not what I'm getting wrong, if I'm in fact, doing something wrong at all.

- I tried to WILD 15-20 times so far, and no results so far. I tried it in a range of times, going from like 4am to 8am, trying to match my REM cycles, to no avail.

- What did I do in my attemps: I usually wake up naturally in the middle of the night, I do a short WBTB (I usually take from 5 to 20 minutes) and stay there, motionless. It proved to be a little hard the first times I tried it, but now I got the hang of the non-move part, and that's where my problems begin. Sometimes I lay there for 20 minutes, sometimes I lay there for an hour. I tried using two different anchors: counting and listening to calm, low volume music. The only thing I ever felt was my limbs getting numb. Sometimes a weird sensation here and there but it never lasted anymore than a second or two. I've never seen HI or felt SP. (I know these are not a must in this process, but damn, these at least could show me I was in the right direction)
Some things I'd like to point out here:
I sleep in a dark, warm room.
I tried lying in my bed in several positions so far, my usual sleeping position (belly down) and lying on my back. Did not have any different results in neither positions.

- What usually happens to me: Everytime I tried WILD like I mentioned above, so far resulted in only 2 different results: Either I lie there, and eventually sleep like normal or I lay there for more than a hour without anything happen. Never have I felt I was progressing into the whole process, even less ending up in a lucid dream.

- What I think I MIGHT be getting wrong: It does not matter if I'm lying there for 5 or 50 minutes, nothing happens, and I can break free of the process anytime I want and get up. Which might mean to me that my body is not sleeping at all. I know I'm supposed to let my body sleep, while I use some kind of anchor or mantra to keep my mind awake but these anchors so far made me plain awake at all times. Can it be possible that if I focus too hard on keeping my mind aware, I might keep myself from sleeping? I naturally almost always have a hard time getting to sleep, be it bedtime or during the night, so my body might have been having a hard time getting asleep at all? This got me a little confused. Maybe Melatonin could help me about this, any thoughts about that?

So, my though is that I'm probably missing something about the whole process. Maybe what I mentioned above. I must be forgetting a important aspect, or maybe, I'm not capable of WILDing at all. Even though I had several DILDs so far and trying WILD so many times, I'm almost giving up by now.

So any feedback would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you in advance guys!

**dms111** · 02-14-2013 07:18 PM

Your problem could be relying on natural awakenings. A natural awakening typically occurs after a REM period ends. So when you return to sleep your brain is going to go into NREM sleep first, which is not conducive to WILDing. In a situation like this you'll have to successfully fall asleep while still aware and then just wait through NREM until your next REM period begins. This is possible but really difficult.

Try using an alarm clock to wake you up during the night. You want to interrupt a REM period so when you return to sleep you will reenter the same REM period. Don't stay awake for too long. If you do your brain might want to go into NREM instead.

It's way too soon for you to give up WILDing. It's a tough learning process. I've had dozens of WILD's after hundreds of attempts and still only succeed maybe once out of 20 .

**cuzero** · 02-15-2013 02:32 AM

Thanks for the info man, it does make a lot of sense. Everytime I try WILD after a natural awakening it's almost at the same time of the night. I'm sure 90% of my attempts were after a natural awakening. I read somewhere that usually REM cycles come around at a 90 minute mark. I should time my alarm to match one of those cycles then, instead of waking up naturally.

Thanks again man, that might help me a lot.

**Sageous** · 02-15-2013 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by cuzero

So, my though is that I'm probably missing something about the whole process. Maybe what I mentioned above. I must be forgetting a important aspect, or maybe, I'm not capable of WILDing at all. Even though I had several DILDs so far and trying WILD so many times, I'm almost giving up by now.

After carefully reading your post, Cuzero, I noticed something that might indeed be missing (unless you simply let that bit out): It seems you are expecting WILD to "work" simply by lying still and waiting, and the only input to the process you provide is a mantra. As a couple of the sessions of my class point out, mental prep -- done primarily during the day -- is vital to making WILD work for you. Simply lying down and holding still is not enough, no matter how still you stay, or for how long.

You must have a certain level of self-awareness on hand at all times during WILD, along with well-set intentions and deeply formed expectation. WILD's don't just happen because you're there, waiting... a little work must also be included.

Now, assuming that you did (and do) all the mental prep, and feel sufficiently self-aware, but just left that off your post, there is the question of timing. Dms111 makes a good point above when he says you could simply be trying your WILD's at the wrong times. I suggest you re-read my session on timing and think carefully of when you make your attempt. For instance, since REM periods tend to bunch up after several hours of sleep, it might be a good idea to make your attempts after those hours, if possible, rather than just when you wake up during the night. As my session on timing points out, I'm not a big fan of alarm clocks, though if one is necessary to get you up at the right time, use it.

Finally, as I said to you elsewhere, if we assume you're doing everything right and just left out some details, there is a chance that WILD isn't for you, and DILD or MILD are your best routes to successful LD'ing. Now that I think of it, DEILD (really a form of WILD) might work for you as well, because it bypasses all the lying and waiting, which can be frustrating.

Speaking of frustrating, 20 WILD attempts might sound like a lot, but in truth success can require a long wait for some, especially if you have trouble going to sleep. I've done thousands of WILD's, but to this day I might fail dozens of time before finally succeeding in a dive.... sometimes things just take a while to develop.

tl;dr: Make sure you've worked hard on mental prep, check your timing, and be patient!

**cuzero** · 02-15-2013 07:40 PM

Yeah Sageous you're really on point about the mental preparation stuff. I was basically lying there, waiting for something to happen. I'll give that lesson a second read. For some reason something tells me this is the hardest part of the whole process, lol! But I won't give up without at least doing it right once. Thanks a lot man.

**juroara** · 02-24-2013 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by dms111

Your problem could be relying on natural awakenings. A natural awakening typically occurs after a REM period ends. So when you return to sleep your brain is going to go into NREM sleep first, which is not conducive to WILDing. In a situation like this you'll have to successfully fall asleep while still aware and then just wait through NREM until your next REM period begins. This is possible but really difficult.

Try using an alarm clock to wake you up during the night. You want to interrupt a REM period so when you return to sleep you will reenter the same REM period. Don't stay awake for too long. If you do your brain might want to go into NREM instead.

It's way too soon for you to give up WILDing. It's a tough learning process. I've had dozens of WILD's after hundreds of attempts and still only succeed maybe once out of 20 .

omg - all these years and it never occurred to me that waking up naturally in the middle of the night meant you REM cycle just ended! I mean I knew that, I just didn't get it. Now I understand! Even if I wake up naturally in the middle of the night, it may not be a good time to attempt WILD when the next REM cycle is over 40 mins away. Just another reason why WILDs are better in the last quarter of sleeping when the gaps between REM is only like 20 mins.