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    Thread: REM Atonia (SP) is not ALWAYS necessary..

    1. #1
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      REM Atonia (SP) is not ALWAYS necessary..

      Hello all!

      Just recently, I have figured out the key (for me) to attain WILDs multiple times in one night.

      This is my first guide on this site and I hope that I can debunk some of the misconceptions people have of WILD through the sensations I experience in my attempts. This, by no means is a "One-size-fits-all" thing. These don't apply to everyone, just like every WILD guide!
      Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming is like a mind game:
      it's a race to the finish line: will your mind fall asleep first or your body?
      Maybe that was a bad analogy... Through other people's experiences and techniques to keep their mind aware (counting, visualizing, any type of word association game, environmental anchors), we can use these to our advantage! Not every one of them will work for all of us, however, but this will give us a head-start into fun lucid dreaming.

      Many people don't realize they were lucid dreaming and think they had a failed attempt! Especially during WILD attempts, my dream starts off with me in bed with my eyes closed!

      So here comes MY experiences that hailed 5 lucid dreams in 3 nights that I hope you can learn from:

      REM Atonia
      I have had a few experiences with REM atonia, not including the ones where I could have been in a dream when I didn't realize it.
      Some examples of REM atonia or approaching REM atonia can be:
      - A feeling of your brain a few inches away from your body
      - Hallucinations (Phone buzzing, knocking on the door, whispering)
      - Eyes vibrating back and forth
      - Feeling like concrete in your bed
      - Being inside your bed

      1. When I lay in my bed attempting a WILD (after WBTB), I start off by counting or visualizing:
      - When I count, I say in my head: "1... I'm gonna have a lucid dream. 2.. etc" until I feel REM atonia coming on.
      - **This prevents me from falling unconscious because that would only result in non-lucid dreams or a MILD.**
      - I make sure to stay aware of what I am saying in my head because "1... I'm gonna have a lucid dream" will turn into "25... I'm gonna sheathe my sword. 12.. I'm gonna kill him." and eventually, you will wander into the pits of sleep. If this starts to happen, focus a little bit harder on trying to say your mantra or number or play your mind game or visualization.

      2. When I start experiencing the above REM atonia examples, I try to make sure fluttering eyes is part of it. This is a big signal for me to know that I am ready to enter a dream. When my eyes start to vibrate, I count to 5 and force myself to roll out.

      3. RC (you should hopefully be in a dream)

      4. If you are not in a dream, you can try it again and you should only be set back ~5-10 minutes since you are already relaxed.

      No REM Atonia
      Most of my WILDs don't even tell me I'm about to enter a dream! This is why REM atonia (misnomer of Sleep Paralysis) should not be considered a goal when attempting a WILD.

      (Number 1 is the same as the above)
      1. When I lay in my bed attempting a WILD (after WBTB), I start off by counting or visualizing:
      - When I count, I say in my head: "1... I'm gonna have a lucid dream. 2.. etc" until I feel REM atonia coming on.
      - **This prevents me from falling unconscious because that would only result in non-lucid dreams or a MILD.**
      - I make sure to stay aware of what I am saying in my head because "1... I'm gonna have a lucid dream" will turn into "25... I'm gonna sheathe my sword. 12.. I'm gonna kill him." and eventually, you will wander into the pits of sleep. If this starts to happen, focus a little bit harder on trying to say your mantra or number or play your mind game or visualization.

      2. After a while of counting, my body starts to feel numb (just a by-product of not moving for a while), and I start to feel dissocation with my physical body:
      - By dissociation, I mean that I can't even remember where my body is placed. Are my arms crossed? I don't know.
      - Usually, the numbing process starts from fingers and legs and builds up to my chest. When it reaches my chest, I know I'm getting close.

      3. Keep counting!

      4. You might not even notice, but when you start to think about it, you can feel things in your body again. your body is not numb anymore and you can feel the bed or the floor. Open your eyes, if you can't don't force it! Use your dream hands to pry your eyes open, or you will end up opening your real eyes in your bed and ruin the dream!

      I hope this helps many of you who are having problems "reaching Sleep Paralysis" or "obtaining hypnogogia". Like I said, WILDs are mind games, not physical. You can definitely use these physical sensations as milestones (if you experience them at all), but don't ever count them as goals.
      Any "failed" attempts actually count as practice for WILD and can also serve as a MILD if you accidentally fall asleep.

      Thanks,
      ~Danny
      slimslowslider likes this.
      WILDs: 5 DILDs: 7 DEILDs: 2

    2. #2
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      Thanks for that :-)
      Always good to get other people's perspectives on WILDing

      What I took from your post was this - and its not advice aimed at you
      We are all individuals with minds as different from each other as past experience, genetics and so on would suggest!
      If one person's method doesn't work - it may simply be that it doesn't work for you
      So don't give up - perhaps you just havent found your way!
      Sure there are patterns and similarities...
      But I often wonder if we could arrange methods (and not just for WILDing but for RCs, recall, induction, stability etc etc) by personality or thinking type.
      My own favourite in this regard is the idea of Learning Modes.
      i.e. people have preferred methods of learning - Auditory, Visual, Kinaesthetic...
      and it seems worth finding techniques in line with your own mental predispositions rather than failing and giving up because its just the wrong method for you (rather than because you can't do it at all).
      Its a bit of an issue when experienced LD 'gurus' say "Do it like this..." rather than "This worked for me. Maybe it will for you too."
      Last edited by slimslowslider; 04-28-2017 at 01:01 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by slimslowslider View Post
      My own favourite in this regard is the idea of Learning Modes.
      i.e. people have preferred methods of learning - Auditory, Visual, Kinaesthetic...
      I happen to have hyperphantasia, so doing a variation of WILD through visualization is very good for me. I don't know how kinaesthetics would work here, other than just feeling the sensation of numbing or something like that. Unless, you mean learning the stages of sleep you go through your preferred method of learning. For example, visual & hypnagogia, auditory & hallucinations (sounds of knocking), tactile & feelings of your head banging on your pillow haha. This could be very good for knowing the signs of when you are about to enter a dream, but not everyone will feel the sensation of their preferred method of learning

      I like the idea!
      WILDs: 5 DILDs: 7 DEILDs: 2

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      Hyperphantasia - I had to look it up... cool!
      I'm VAK - primarily visual - WILD for me is pure visualisation. I don't get vibrations, or numbing or SP, I dont get auditory halucinations. However I do do progressive relaxation. However, thinking about it now, I do it by visualising e.g. flowers opening, and the 'drawing silk' ideas from Chi Gung. After that its pure visualisation - imagining the room around me until I can see with my eyes closed, and a certain point where it looks more real than real, I stand up... which I guess is partly a kinaesthetic thing - although since I'm not actually moving it could be considered purely visual. Hmmm.... Does that help?

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