We NEED to change the way we think about WILD.

[Metaphyz1k]

I’m really beginning to think that the WILD techniques that most of us know, use (or try to), and for some reason deem acceptable are an absolute waste of time. The endless counting and breathing exercises associated with the traditional WILD methods are completely unnecessary and the principles these methods are based upon are illogical at best. Conventional WILD techniques describe the process as "tricking your mind into thinking the body is asleep by remaining still for a long period of time", but just think about that phrase for a moment. What basis in any scientific fact does that really have? First of all, the body doesn't go to sleep, it rests. The brain is really what’s doing the sleeping via the altering of brain waves and sleep phases, etc. Also, how exactly does one go about performing this so-called “trickery”? Don’t you have to make a conscious decision to do the tricking and doesn’t this consciousness reside within the brain? Wouldn’t you therefore be tricking yourself; if so how is this even possible? I want to know what's really happening when I feel the effects of sleep paralysis coming on. Tell me how these molecules are interacting with those molecules and in what way all of these neurons are firing electrical impulses in this manner to produce what I experience as a transition from waking to dreaming. Maybe it isn't yet possible to know all of this, but shouldn't we be at least trying to understand it from a more biological perspective? This knowledge would certainly aid in the creation of better WILD techniques. Don’t keep telling me, “oh yeah, the mind is being tricked into thinking the body is asleep or something”. When I piss, my penis is being tricked into thinking my head is falling off. I just think it’s nonsense. And the notion that resisting the urge to move or itch is a test is also complete nonsense. A test is also a conscious action and unless you’re somehow consciously telling yourself to do an “itch test” to see if the “body is asleep”, no test is actually being performed. If it’s true that remaining still for a long time causes the transition into dreaming when attempting a WILD, then how come certain techniques require little or no time of remaining still, and they work instantaneously? Many times I’ve woken up from a dream without moving or opening my eyes and I’m quickly pulled back into a dream. Please stop wasting your time counting to a thousand, you’re just keeping yourself awake. There are better ways to remain aware and transition into a dream in a much shorter period of time. The problem is, the better techniques that rely on visualization and the imagining of tactile sensations are all too often overlooked in place of the lesser methods. A good example of a more efficient technique is this. And more recently I saw this thread, which I liked as well. At least these methods are a lot more efficient. Of course you should always do what works for you, but we should start thinking more like the people responsible for the WILD variations I linked to above. How many threads per day do you see people posting to complain about how traditional WILD techniques aren't working for them? This is pretty substantial evidence to suggest rather objectively that the traditional techniques aren't effective a lot of the time, not to mention how time consuming they are. Sure, some people swear by certain traditional WILD methods, which is great, and I'm not saying that they never work because obviously they work just fine for some people. But for a vast majority of WILD practitioners, the process as they know it just can't work for them no matter how hard they try and try. Let’s try to understand what’s really happening from a more scientific standpoint and utilize this knowledge in the creation of more effective techniques. Thanks for reading all of this shit. What do you think?

[gsoldi]

Check out the books by LaBerge. Last time I did research on this he had very scientific explanations

[AURON]

How many threads per day do you see people posting to complain about how traditional WILD techniques aren't working for them? This is pretty substantial evidence to suggest rather objectively that the traditional techniques aren't effective a lot of the time, not to mention how time consuming they are. Thanks for reading all of this shit. What do you think? well you can't totally bash old techniques...cause they have worked. Also you need to take into account on these people who are trying to WILD. The other day there was some guy complaining about all the techniques he's tried...OVER A TWO WEEK PERIOD. It seems more and more, people lack the patients to get better at a certain technique, and lack the focus to hone in on whats working and not working for them. On the other hand, there should be some kind of advancement in what works, because certain things just don't work for certain people. It's the sole reason why I don't rely on just a WILD. I use MILD, DEILD, and FILD techniques that i've been working on for years. It's also the reason why I head to the research section and give people a hand from time to time.

[Jeff777]

I’m really beginning to think that the WILD techniques that most of us know, use (or try to), and for some reason deem acceptable are an absolute waste of time. The endless counting and breathing exercises associated with the traditional WILD methods are completely unnecessary and the principles these methods are based upon are illogical at best. Conventional WILD techniques describe the process as "tricking your mind into thinking the body is asleep by remaining still for a long period of time", but just think about that phrase for a moment. What basis in any scientific fact does that really have? First of all, the body doesn't go to sleep, it rests. The brain is really what’s doing the sleeping via the altering of brain waves and sleep phases, etc. Also, how exactly does one go about performing this so-called “trickery”? Don’t you have to make a conscious decision to do the tricking and doesn’t this consciousness reside within the brain? Wouldn’t you therefore be tricking yourself; if so how is this even possible? I want to know what's really happening when I feel the effects of sleep paralysis coming on. Tell me how these molecules are interacting with those molecules and in what way all of these neurons are firing electrical impulses in this manner to produce what I experience as a transition from waking to dreaming. Maybe it isn't yet possible to know all of this, but shouldn't we be at least trying to understand it from a more biological perspective? This knowledge would certainly aid in the creation of better WILD techniques. Don’t keep telling me, “oh yeah, the mind is being tricked into thinking the body is asleep or something”. When I piss, my penis is being tricked into thinking my head is falling off. I just think it’s nonsense. And the notion that resisting the urge to move or itch is a test is also complete nonsense. A test is also a conscious action and unless you’re somehow consciously telling yourself to do an “itch test” to see if the “body is asleep”, no test is actually being performed. If it’s true that remaining still for a long time causes the transition into dreaming when attempting a WILD, then how come certain techniques require little or no time of remaining still, and they work instantaneously? Many times I’ve woken up from a dream without moving or opening my eyes and I’m quickly pulled back into a dream. Please stop wasting your time counting to a thousand, you’re just keeping yourself awake. There are better ways to remain aware and transition into a dream in a much shorter period of time. The problem is, the better techniques that rely on visualization and the imagining of tactile sensations are all too often overlooked in place of the lesser methods. A good example of a more efficient technique is this. And more recently I saw this thread, which I liked as well. At least these methods are a lot more efficient. Of course you should always do what works for you, but we should start thinking more like the people responsible for the WILD variations I linked to above. How many threads per day do you see people posting to complain about how traditional WILD techniques aren't working for them? This is pretty substantial evidence to suggest rather objectively that the traditional techniques aren't effective a lot of the time, not to mention how time consuming they are. Sure, some people swear by certain traditional WILD methods, which is great, and I'm not saying that they never work because obviously they work just fine for some people. But for a vast majority of WILD practitioners, the process as they know it just can't work for them no matter how hard they try and try. Let’s try to understand what’s really happening from a more scientific standpoint and utilize this knowledge in the creation of more effective techniques. Thanks for reading all of this shit. What do you think? I think this topic has been exhausted by spaceexplorer, and rightly so. He made very good definitive points. The body is not "testing" the brain of course because that would mean the two work independently. Though (as Akono said) saying that techniques regarding "tricking the body into falling asleep" aren't effective at getting the WILD practitioner to WILD couldn't be further from the truth. If you believe anything on the contrary, visit my thread HERE, and sift through all the pages while tallying up the success stories. You might even feel inclined to put asterisks by the ones that claim they had not been able to WILD (or LD at all) up until attempting the method laid within that thread. As far as I'm concerned, using words like "tricking" and "mind" and "body" when WILD'ing just aid in the relaxation/transitioning process and keeps things simple so as to not slip the practitioner into a "paralysis by analysis" state by excessive scientific rigor (pun intended). You'd do best to keep things like this in mind before trying to "re-invent wheels" that have been getting many members here from point A to point B. With all that being said, you and others with your thinking patterns are more than welcome (encouraged actually) to come up with a method of your own that involves how "molecules are interacting with other molecules and on neurons" as you so quaintly put it. If it arouses enough interest and the community deems it helpful enough...it'll be permanently tucked away in our tutorials section where many aspiring WILD'ers on the internet can read your induction method for years to come. Until that happens, you're limited to methods of your own, methods on another site, or what we have here.

[Royalpeach]

Don’t keep telling me, “oh yeah, the mind is being tricked into thinking the body is asleep or something”. When I piss, my penis is being tricked into thinking my head is falling off. You should have that checked. Anyway, time to get to the point; In my opinion, science has hardly any control over the way your mind works. Sure, there's a hell of a lot of hormones moving, neurons discharging, and flux capacitors turning on in your head when you enter SP, but the mind is different from the body. I personally think that the mind is controlled mainly by consciousness, and that consciousness is controlled by suggestion. Basically what I'm trying to say is that if you think a WILD technique will work for you, it will. This might be why a lot of skeptics never have successful attempts. Hell, you could imagine Peter fucking Pan sprinkling magical pixie dust on you and that lets you stay awake and, if you keep from moving, focus, and have some luck, you'll enter SP. As for the trance/stillness stage of the traditional WILD, for me it just makes entering a dream easier. Without your senses annoying the crap out of you, it's easier to concentrate on dreaming. So screw free thinking and let the traditional WILD brain wash you. If you don't like communism, think of your own way to WILD. Even techniques like the "Fast Grab" still use the same the traditional WILD does. Deep focus and a trigger. And no one ever said you had to follow the traditional rules by the book. These "new" ideas are really just building on the old WILD, granted they may work better/differently. Different things work for different people. Some prefer tried and true while others like to experiment. It all gets you to the same place, right?

[KingYoshi]

I truly believe that WILDing is no different than normal LDing or performing tasks whilst lucid. If there is doubt in the technique you are trying then it will not work for you. Between 90 & 100% of LDing is in your mind. If you are stressed because these WILD techniques aren't working or you have doubt before even trying them, then good luck acheiving lucidity. It will be damn near impossible. It may sound foolish, but I believe any technique can work for anyone if they truly believe it will. That is my philosophy on the matter. For the record, I have used Jeff's technique before and it has worked for me. My technique just works better for me because it was my alteration and I believe in it through and through. Good Luck in your future efforts!

[The Subatomic Level]

If it’s true that remaining still for a long time causes the transition into dreaming when attempting a WILD, then how come certain techniques require little or no time of remaining still, and they work instantaneously? Many times I’ve woken up from a dream without moving or opening my eyes and I’m quickly pulled back into a dream. The reason certain techniques can work instantaneously has everything to do with how close one is to the border of waking and dreaming. You woke up without even moving, and that is why you were able to be pulled back into the dream within seconds. Never have I ever heard of a technique in which one gets up walks around/reads/etc and then lays back down and is in a dream within seconds. No, they have to let time pass to settle down the mind, relax, and get close to that border of waking and dreaming. The problem with setting an alarm to attempt a WILD after 4-6 hours of sleep, is that it almost always results in a person moving to turn off the alarm. The moving places a person far from that dreaming border and solidifies them in the waking state. Hence the thousands of breathes that must be counted to return. What can this mean for people who want to WILD into a dream and only waste a few seconds in the attempt? Only attempt when one naturally wakes from at night. We all wake up 5-7 times a night. If you set your intention on not moving a muscle when these natural awakenings occur, then you can attempt your extremely short attempt at lucidity. If it fails simply go back to sleep setting your intention for a successful attempt for the next awaking. This is currently the only effort I have been putting into lucid dreaming. I started working on this only a few days ago, and have already entered a long SP but could not quite transition into the dream. The SP was the most amazing SP I've felt before. Very loud noises, and very strong vibrations going up and down my spine. The only problem I see with this strategy for lucid dreaming is that it seems to be proven that we wake up naturally after each cycle of REM sleep is over. So when you do get lucid from this strategy will you be dreaming and turning REM sleep back on or will you simply be dreaming in a different stage of sleep (which is possible)? REM is definitely thought to be the most vivid dreaming. I'm gonna work at this for a while and see how it goes.

[bigj_1992]

im pretty sure u got it all wrong.. isnt it tricking the body into thinking the minds asleep, therefore the body then goes to sleep..??

[DarkLucideity]

Basically the conventional WILD is just waiting until a dream starts, but staying conscious. Yes, this can be slow as hell. If that's your problem, just use some of the techniques that are variations of WILD that improve its speed or effectiveness, for example DEILD, V-WILD, or tactile WILDing.