Thread: Tell Me About Dating and Relationships.

You can't go into a relationship with too many expectations.

Here's the breakdown:

Guys are dumb and girls are confusing. Girls never say exactly what they want and use hints and things to try to tell the guy what they want without being blunt. Guys have a hard time understanding this.

It's never too late to start dating, but don't start dating someone just because you want to start dating and not because you really like the person. Let it be organic and don't force anything. Do what feels right and don't feel like you have to rush into things, well, unless she wants to.

Take her somewhere nice but not too over the top. Or doing something like a picnic, something fun and creative, bowling, etc. Do something where you interact with each other that's not so cliche like dinner and a movie.

Be friends with the girl first - that way you'll find out everything you need to know, like whether or not she has a boyfriend, without it being all awkward. What I hate most is guys taking one look at me and assuming that I'm single. Single and looking. Really makes for some uncomfortable interactions, because at the moment I'm neither of those.

If you're new to dating, skip the typical "going to a dinner" or "seeing a movie," whatever. Find a girl who shares some of your interests and do those activities. Like video games? Have her come over to your house and play some games together. Like riding bikes? Go on a bike ride together.

It doesn't have to feel like a formal "date." Start by just... hanging out.

What the above post said is totally true ^^
Especially the end. Hanging out is the first thing. I have always wanted my guyfriend/crush to ask me to his house to just hang around. I want to meet his parents for real. I've had him over before. It was awesome.... But I'm going on a tangent here.

I would wait to get to know her before asking her out. Know her as a friend. But DON'T wait for MONTHS! Said guyfriend and I have been friends for the whole school year. He is a great friend. People kept asking if we were going out! I sadly had to say no.

Have a good attitude around girls. If one you like starts flirting with you, don't just absorb it, flirt back! IMPORTANT: Be respectful to her. (this is a good thing to remember.)

Hope I helped.

It's never too late to start dating
Just keep a really positive mindset and talk to lots of you girls wherever you are. One of them is bound to take some interest in you.

It doesn't really matter where you take a girl on a date as long as you two are having fun and doing something memorable and exciting. Some of the best dates I've ever been on were kind of spontaneous and adventurous. Everyone loves a nice adventure!

Just remember, it's never to late to start dating and you can meet girls everywhere. Just be outgoing! Also, always be direct. If you're wondering whether you should "make a move" or not, just do it. Cause if you don't, it's never gonna happen...

Of course you are not to old to be dating, that is just silly. If everyone who hasn't dated before they were 18 years old, were doomed to live alone for the rest of their life, the population of the world would be in real trouble.

If a girl already has a boyfriend, then it isn't a problem with you at all. Its just bad timing and it can't be helped. So don't let it bother you. If you just accept the fact that you are not everyone's type, and that some people just are not looking for a relationship at the moment, you will do fine. If a girl says no when you asks her out, its not a big deal.

A lot of people get nervous and stuff when asking people out, but you just need to relax and do it. Like they say, the worst she can do is say no. Not to big of a deal. Nothing is really lost in the attempt, and even if she says no it will probably make her feel better that she got asked out. Its always a nice compliment that someone finds you interesting.

As for what Cacophony mentioned about guys being dumb and girls being confusing. Don't fall into that trap. A lot of relationship problems are due to bad communication between the couple. You want to be clear from the start, and avoid communication problems.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Be friends with the girl first - that way you'll find out everything you need to know, like whether or not she has a boyfriend, without it being all awkward. What I hate most is guys taking one look at me and assuming that I'm single. Single and looking. Really makes for some uncomfortable interactions, because at the moment I'm neither of those.

I love you, Mes, but I kinda disagree with this. People who become your friends first are the ones you reject because they're "great guys who will find someone eventually, but are TOO NICE" - all after maybe months of spending time with you - and don't you dare deny it. I know your ego likes it that way, but this thread is about actually getting girls to like you for real real.

Also, let's face it: Guys who are interested in you but "go for the friendship first" are dishonest assholes because they're basically lying about their intent.

I think it's much, much better to just BE A MAN and be honest with your intent. It doesn't have to be creepy at all, and even if the girl does have a borefriend, she'll be flattered. As a matter of fact, at LEAST half of girls who have borefriends actually just use them as place-holders, and will drop them like a bad case of fleas the minute someone comes around who sweeps them off their feet the way they've always dreamed of, but would never admit it to even their closest friends.

If trashy romance novel sales are any mark of what's going on in women's minds, then I'd say there's a huge need that is not being met out there. Just saying.

Remember: Women will MUCH more readily forgive you for being a man than for being a dishonest pussy.

EDIT: woops looks like I was assuming this is the OTHER thread about dating and stuff... well whatever it still holds.

I have never really dated, but I have been married 4 times. I simply get married. Marriage is either a part of one's psychology or it is not. No way of knowing until you try.

The only stipulation I ever made, and always made, is that they wanted to get married, have a family and simply do the best that they could towards that end. None of them meant it, but they did teach me how much I was willing to bend in respect to that end. I still believe in it.

Originally Posted by Skarr

Can anyone here tell me about dating? I'm 18 and never had a girlfriend or dated. And I am curious about it. Is dating fun? Where is a good place to take a girl out on a date? Is 18 years old too late to be dating? If your 18, How old does the girl have to be for you to date? In Ohio. Where can a guy like me meet the perfect girl? How can you get a girl interested in you? I've never had any luck with any of the girls I've used to like. Most of the girls I meet already have boyfriends. I don't see whats wrong with me. I'm not ugly or anything. But I just wanted to know about dating and relationships. How can I make the relationship work out if I do get a girl? I'm shy and I have a hard time asking a girl out. And I get nervous about rejection wondering if she has a boyfriend or not. Any help would be appreciated.

Well, dating is SUPPOSED to be fun, lol!

Seeing as you're 18, the age of the girl is all upon you. However, if you seem to find "the one" and she's not in that age group, are you going to let her get away? Personally, I had a +/- 2yrs from me kind of as a guideline (I was in HS too so 3 or 4 yrs would be a little hard to work with). My GF is 2yrs younger than me

Anywhere you can think, of, you can take a girl. I've found that mini golf is usually pretty fun. The typical movies or dinner work as well. I take my GF to a seafood or an Italian place and she's putty in my hands, muahaha

As to where to meet girls... School? Mall, amusement park, local city park, restaraunt, skiing in the mnts? OH has places to ski, right, lol

Most important, be yourself. If you get into a relationship faking who you are, it's going to get tough. May be able to get away with it for a yr or 2 depending how often you see her, but it's going to get tough. Be yourself. You'll be SO much happier. And if you're not her cup of tea, she can go kick rocks/ pound sand

I find that humor is a pretty big thing. I've made friends with girls in my classes and seems it's my humor, I hope, that opens them up to you more. Self confidence is usually a big one also. Common interests is always great. Being able to have an intelligent conversation is a good one as well. My GF and I have serious conversations at times. We can also get on stints of jsut saying funny things. We also have shared interests. Oh, and if you don't watch Family Guy or Futurama, you're going to miss alot of our jokes. Have to be quick witted around us, lol

Girls that are already taken, it happens. There've been girls I liked, but found out they had BFs already. Seems to be a magnet for my buddy to find the girls with BFs, lol. Sucks for him

There may be nothing wrong with you. I didn't think girls liked me and wasn't until after HS that I found out 2 liked me and before that I was able to deduce that 4 liked me. Was kind of shocked actually for the 2 afterward, lol. You may not see it or pick up on it. The girl may be shy as well and is afraid of what might happen (The big "no", lol)

I'm shy as well, and I can't just walk up to a girl and start talking. It's better in a classroom enviroment for me because I can assess them whilst building up the courage to talk to them (which could be weeks, haha), so I'm right tere with you, I'm sure, lol. No problems though as I'm sure lots of people have the same problem. But once you start talking to them, it's easier to open up to them and be yourself

Don't overdo it though. Relax and be yourself

For rejection, take my point of view, and what my dad has always said, "The worst they can say is 'no'." And really, that's about it. Rejection happens to mostly everyone, so you're not alone

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Be friends with the girl first - that way you'll find out everything you need to know, like whether or not she has a boyfriend, without it being all awkward. What I hate most is guys taking one look at me and assuming that I'm single. Single and looking. Really makes for some uncomfortable interactions, because at the moment I'm neither of those.

If you're new to dating, skip the typical "going to a dinner" or "seeing a movie," whatever. Find a girl who shares some of your interests and do those activities. Like video games? Have her come over to your house and play some games together. Like riding bikes? Go on a bike ride together.

It doesn't have to feel like a formal "date." Start by just... hanging out.

I find that knowing a girl as a friend is the best. You can gauge how they act and such. There's some girls I've liked, but after knowing them for a while, there were some quirks I jsut didn't care about, so cross her off the list, lol

Mini golf, skiiing, arcade, lunch, (dinner and a movie or vise verse is cliche, but should be about the time together), mall, there's so much you can do

Originally Posted by AngelOfLife

What the above post said is totally true ^^
Especially the end. Hanging out is the first thing. I have always wanted my guyfriend/crush to ask me to his house to just hang around. I want to meet his parents for real. I've had him over before. It was awesome.... But I'm going on a tangent here.

I would wait to get to know her before asking her out. Know her as a friend. But DON'T wait for MONTHS! Said guyfriend and I have been friends for the whole school year. He is a great friend. People kept asking if we were going out! I sadly had to say no.

Have a good attitude around girls. If one you like starts flirting with you, don't just absorb it, flirt back! IMPORTANT: Be respectful to her. (this is a good thing to remember.)

Hope I helped.

Want to come over and hang out? lol

Yup, if you wait, they may get taken by someone else. Happened to my buddy that I mentioned earlier. Was going to ask her out, and found out she jsut got a BF the week before. Lamesauce for sure!

Originally Posted by Replicon

I love you, Mes, but I kinda disagree with this. People who become your friends first are the ones you reject because they're "great guys who will find someone eventually, but are TOO NICE" - all after maybe months of spending time with you - and don't you dare deny it. I know your ego likes it that way, but this thread is about actually getting girls to like you for real real.

Also, let's face it: Guys who are interested in you but "go for the friendship first" are dishonest assholes because they're basically lying about their intent.

I think it's much, much better to just BE A MAN and be honest with your intent. It doesn't have to be creepy at all, and even if the girl does have a borefriend, she'll be flattered. As a matter of fact, at LEAST half of girls who have borefriends actually just use them as place-holders, and will drop them like a bad case of fleas the minute someone comes around who sweeps them off their feet the way they've always dreamed of, but would never admit it to even their closest friends.

I actually couldn't DISagree more. Yes, I'm sure a girl would like you to be intent on be true about your intentions, but I would think that there would be a high "umm... no" rate for sheer awkwardness. I can't say I've met a girl who would say "yes" to a random guy asking them out. You COULD be bold and ask after a few days or even weeks of talking, but not flat out without knowing them. If some random girl asked me, I would be very off guard, and may even say the wrong thing, or what I say could be mistaken (as I'd probably say "Kaaay..." and would prob be taken as "OK!")

I don't think it would be dishonest. Actually, I'd think it's be presuptious, and arrogant, for a guy to just ask a girl, as if he thinks he's THAT awesome he can jsut grab any girl

And for the last point in your quote, how is that supposed to help? So now half the girls I meet have a BF "just because"? Great, what if that's me? Yes, there's some douchy girls out there that would do that, but I don't think it's fair to put that stereotype on girls or to put that thought into someone's head who's trying to get HELPful advice

Hahaha my, how defensive.

Originally Posted by Armistice

Yes, I'm sure a girl would like you to be intent on be true about your intentions, but I would think that there would be a high "umm... no" rate for sheer awkwardness. I can't say I've met a girl who would say "yes" to a random guy asking them out.

I think you misunderstood me. "Being direct with your intention" is not the same as "walking up to a random girl and asking her out." You still walk up and engage in conversation and find out what she's like and stuff. But you DON'T do it from the BS pretense that you want to be her girlfriend. The frame of the interaction should be "I am a man, and you're a woman - we COULD connect, and procreate eventually." In fact, if you just walk up to some girl and ask her out without getting to know her first, it's kind of pathetic cause then you're just interested in looks. Soooo shallow. But you know what? It shouldn't take more than 20 minutes of face time to get a phone number or setup a meet. No need to be friends for weeks and weeks. TOO many guys are just too damn scared to put themselves out there and risk rejection, so they want to come in "under the radar" so to speak.

You COULD be bold and ask after a few days or even weeks of talking, but not flat out without knowing them.

Hehe "weeks" == "bold"? BAH to you and your limiting beliefs!

I don't think it would be dishonest. Actually, I'd think it's be presuptious, and arrogant, for a guy to just ask a girl, as if he thinks he's THAT awesome he can jsut grab any girl

Already addressed this above.

And for the last point in your quote, how is that supposed to help? So now half the girls I meet have a BF "just because"? Great, what if that's me?

Struck a nerve, did I? Did a girl say "it's not you, it's me" when she really meant "it's not me, it's you" in your recent past? Let's face it: I don't care if it's you. To me, "single" is not "a girl whose relationship status on facebook is set to single." Single just means a girl who isn't with someone in the way she truly, deeply, wants to be. How is that supposed to help? Well, for one, it might prevent a really awesome guy from giving up on a really awesome girl who happens to be with a really lame borefiend. Assume he's lame until you have reason to believe he isn't (i.e. he's not an abusive asshole, and she is totally head-over-heels into him).

Yes, there's some douchy girls out there that would do that, but I don't think it's fair to put that stereotype on girls or to put that thought into someone's head who's trying to get HELPful advice

I am not putting a stereotype on girls. I am putting a stereotype on guys. And given what the mainstream media is projecting, it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. See, you assume that girls who dump a lame bf for an awesome one are douchey, but the truth is, at least they're not cheating on said lame bf. In fact, if the bf were awesome, rather than lame, then this would be entirely moot.

And this is a thread with all sorts of ideas in it. It's up to the OP to decide what's helpful at his current stage and what's not. I'm just sharing my map, just like you are sharing yours. No need to hate.

Originally Posted by Skarr

Can anyone here tell me about dating? I'm 18 and never had a girlfriend or dated. And I am curious about it. Is dating fun? Where is a good place to take a girl out on a date? Is 18 years old too late to be dating? If your 18, How old does the girl have to be for you to date? In Ohio. Where can a guy like me meet the perfect girl? How can you get a girl interested in you? I've never had any luck with any of the girls I've used to like. Most of the girls I meet already have boyfriends. I don't see whats wrong with me. I'm not ugly or anything. But I just wanted to know about dating and relationships. How can I make the relationship work out if I do get a girl? I'm shy and I have a hard time asking a girl out. And I get nervous about rejection wondering if she has a boyfriend or not. Any help would be appreciated.

I'm 24 years old. Never went on a date until about six months ago. Shit you not, which I never really felt the reason to do so date anyone because I'm very focused on my future. I've been on a good amount of dates so far, which I 99% positive if you are looking for a serious relationship, then the following scenarios I'm about to give you will work if the other individual is seeking the same thing and you two connect.

If you are looking for someone to date, there are two things you can do.

Traditional-wise, you can chat someone up and ask them if they would like to eat lunch with you sometime. While at the lunch, conversation is critical so you can get a feel for the individual and vice versus, to know if she is single etc.. If the lunch is good and the individual is intriguing to you, ask them if they would like to go on a date with you on such and such day, swap phone numbers. Obviously, if she isn't dense, she will either turn down the lunch or somehow mention that she isn't single and/or interested during the lunch.

Non-traditional modern, you can go through a dating website. Only use the free ones. If you are looking for a long term relationship, do not put that you are. You do not want to come across as desperate etc., which when you date individuals, a long term relationship will naturally happen if there is a good connection. You want to put something along the lines that you are looking to date, make friends, and have fun. Don't give a lot of information about you, just basic stuff such as that you are intelligent, ambitious, attractive, not shallow, have good humor etc.. You want to display confidence, which don't even bother putting height or weight. After you receive an e-mail, give a little bit more information about yourself such as height and weight if you wish, a little chit chat, photos of yourself. They will respond if they like what they see, then you give them your number and a scheduled date. Note: Dating through online dating sites is highly useful because you can date multiple people at the same time. After the first date with each individual, you can choose which one you are most likely compatible with for further dating.

First date, take them somewhere decent to eat, such as a restaurant in town that you heard/experienced had good food. When they arrive, greet her, shake her hand, and tell her that she looks good. Once again, you are displaying confidence and making them comfortable. Conversation is critical, which you are still trying to get a good feel for the individual and her interests etc.. What ever you do, do not hog up all the conversation because you don't want to come across as super dominant and you won't get much information about her by doing so. After dinner, ask if she would like to go to a park or somewhere similar to walk and chat more. If she is intrigued, she will say it is a good idea. Try to sneak in some of your humor while you two walk and chat. After a lot of conversation and getting a feel for her, you can decide whether or not a second date would be a good idea. If you want to go on a second date with her, then before you both part your ways, tell her that you had a really good time and ask if you can get a hug. You want to show her respect, which is why you ask and why you do not give her a kiss regardless of if she wants a kiss. Next, tell her that you will call her sometime in the next couple of days with the specifics on the second date.

Wait at least one day before you call. Sounds like a game, but it isn't. Something like time apart makes the heart grow fonder. Also, you don't want to come across as desperate and you do want to come across as confident.

Second date, have a simple and creative like a picnic with her. Bring table cloth or something to relax on the ground with. Bring napkins, plates, utensils, the basics. Bring a small cooler with simple foods such as sandwiches, chips/crackers with a dipping sauce, bottled water, and a dessert. You should already know what type of desert she likes etc.. After eating, chatting, joking, take a walk around the park together chatting and getting to know even more about each other. When you two have to part ways, again tell her that you had a great time and that you would like to go on a third date. If she had a great time too, then you have a third date to attend. If your first date lasted many hours, then on your second date before departing ways, instead of giving her a hug, give her a kiss. In my case, it rained on my picnic, but we still met up at the park. Since it was raining, I asked if she wanted to have a picnic at my place. We went to my place and I laid out the picnic blanket etc. exactly as I would have if we were at the park, while I joked how things would have been if it hadn't rained. Yes, I'm a romantic like that. After eating etc., we chatted, watched a movie, chatted more, played a board game, chatted more, then scheduled a third date.

On the third date, which is very similar to the first date, take her to her favorite restaurant. After eating, take her to some place she likes. It could be a Hooka bar, a store, or whatever. This time, you can see if she wants to hang out at your place. You can watch a movie together or what ever. If you two have been talking and know each other enough, she would like the idea. At the end of the date, see about having a fourth date, give her a kiss and a hug.

On the fourth date, it doesn't really matter. You can take her to the movies or have a movie night together at your place or her place where you watch a favorite movie of hers and she watches a favorite movie of yours. The reason it doesn't matter is because by this time you two should know enough about each other through conversation to the point that movies won't interfere in any potential bonding. Just be creative on the rest of your dates, which they don't have to be fancy smancy.

These are my personal experiences, which I've had some bad dates and learned from them. I've dated six different people in six months. The age range was as young as nineteen years old to thirty two years old. Age doesn't matter if you have enough in common with the individual to create a connection. Currently, I'm dating someone, which each date has been at least five hours long. If you are looking to get laid, this information isn't going to help you because that wasn't my mentality, which I don't agree with that mentality anyways.


Basics:

Find a date.
First date, dinner and a walk.
Second date, a creative date such as a picnic and a walk.
Third date, take her to her favorite restaurant and some other place she likes recreationally.
Fourth date, it is safe to take her to see a movie or have a movie night.
Fifth - infinite date, whatever as long as you are creative and have fun together.


Yeah, one of my nicknames is Little Casanova. Sure, this wouldn't work with all women, but it does work with most. The reason is because most women are conversationalists.

Have fun dating!

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Be friends with the girl first - that way you'll find out everything you need to know, like whether or not she has a boyfriend, without it being all awkward. What I hate most is guys taking one look at me and assuming that I'm single. Single and looking. Really makes for some uncomfortable interactions, because at the moment I'm neither of those.

If you're new to dating, skip the typical "going to a dinner" or "seeing a movie," whatever. Find a girl who shares some of your interests and do those activities. Like video games? Have her come over to your house and play some games together. Like riding bikes? Go on a bike ride together.

It doesn't have to feel like a formal "date." Start by just... hanging out.

You do that, then you have a high chance of getting stuck in the friend zone. It is best you date people you don't know much about. The whole point of dating is getting to know them on a relationship level, not a friendship level. Innately, they will be your best friend if the relationship turns out long and prosperous.

You do that, then you have a high chance of getting stuck in the friend zone.

oh no ;_;;

Have you ever thought about why so many relationships come to an abrupt end?

I agree with Mes, it should start off as friendship. That's how all of my relationships have started. I think it's stupid to set up a goal to achieve a certain status in a relationship. Start out easy and see where it goes, I say.

Oh and as for good stuff to do when going on a date, ice skating is the best!

Also, let's face it: Guys who are interested in you but "go for the friendship first" are dishonest assholes because they're basically lying about their intent.

Uhhh, what? You don't know what the OP's intent is, or anyone else's for that matter. I'd that you suggest stop making assumptions about other people. Being interested in someone hardly equals wanting that person as your girlfriend. Then again, most guys want to seal the deal quickly, and as I said above, that's the reason to why so many relationships end in tears.

Originally Posted by XeL

oh no ;_;;

Have you ever thought about why so many relationships come to an abrupt end?

I agree with Mes, it should start off as friendship. That's how all of my relationships have started. I think it's stupid to set up a goal to achieve a certain status in a relationship. Start out easy and see where it goes, I say.

Oh and as for good stuff to do when going on a date, ice skating is the best!

If we lived in a perfect world, that is how things would function. Sadly, we do not live in a perfect world.

You are lucky you didn't get stuck in the friend zone if that is how all of your serious relationships have started. I don't set a goal to achieve a certain status in a relationship, I set a goal to have a relationship. Having a friendship and a relationship are similar but can not be equated equal because the two are on completely different levels, which transitioning from friendship to relationship is almost impossible, especially if the two individuals are really good friends.

I've tried having a relationship with two different friends, but neither one wanted to jeopardize our friendship because I was a super good friend. One handled it okay, which we are still friends. The other didn't handle it so good, which she innately jeopardized our friendship, which it dissolved. Kind of sad that she destroyed our friendship over something so trivial, but I guess she wasn't that strong of a friend after all.

You really have no clue what you are talking about because you obviously didn't read everything I posted.

P.S. Someone in a wheel chair can ice skate? Just making a point.

Originally Posted by XeL

Uhhh, what?

Here, I'll clarify for you.

You don't know what the OP's intent is, or anyone else's for that matter. I'd that you suggest stop making assumptions about other people. Being interested in someone hardly equals wanting that person as your girlfriend.

Assumptions about intent? Sure I'm making assumptions about the OP's intent. For one, the thread title is "Tell Me About Dating and Relationships" as opposed to tell me about how to get into the friend zone quickly and efficiently. He then goes on to ask about dating and relationships, and says such things as "Where can a guy like me meet the perfect girl?" (answer: anywhere!) and "How can you get a girl interested in you?" I think his intent is pretty clear, and when he sees a girl he's really interested in, acting like he's only interested in friendship would be dishonest. And sure, you CAN come out with a really great friendship when logistics don't work out. You should be interested in people because they're people and not just because you want to mate, but you know what? If you choose to approach the attractive girl instead of the warpig that's standing across the room, you've got to wonder why.

In any case, within the context of this thread, the OP being "interested" in someone DOES mean "interested in finding girlfriend material."

As for making assumptions about other people: I didn't make assumptions, I made sweeping generalizations. That's a big difference. Nothing I say is true all the time, but it's true enough times that the beliefs and attitudes I've outlined are more useful than not.

Then again, most guys want to seal the deal quickly, and as I said above, that's the reason to why so many relationships end in tears.

Now it is you who is making big, sweeping generalizations about most guys. I agree, most guys DO want to seal the deal more quickly, but you can't infer from that that my intentions are just "sex sex sex." Believe it or not, I'm much more interested in something long-term, that is not just sex, but also a very deep connection.

But experience shows that it's much, much easier to move a sexual relationship into a deep, long-term, proper relationship than it is to move friend-zone friendship into anything other than more friend-zone stuff.

I think the only incorrect assumption is that "most guys wanting to seal the deal quickly" is the reason so many relationships end in tears.

I'm on staff at a fairly prominent relationship-based forum, and having read a lot of stories of people getting dumped and being "in tears" and stuff, I can tell you with confidence that "when you close the deal" rarely has anything to do with it. Sure, some guys just want to close the deal and will flat-out lie to the girl to get there, and those guys are lame scumbags (they should be screening for women who WANT some casual sex - there are a LOT of those out there), and it's true that guys who will readily dive into the friend-zone rather than putting themselves out there and risking rejection are probably more interested in the long haul. It's true that women know for sure that all the guys in their "friend-zone aquarium" (cause most awesome women have at least 10 guys in there) are interested in the long haul. It's too bad they're mostly not attracted to those guys.

Look, I'll lay it out plainly and simply. An awesome girl like Mes, who is both beautiful and has a great personality, typically has a lot of guys in her sausage pool. A girl like that very often will have 10-20 "close guy friends" who, by the way, are often desperately in love with her. Now, to a classy lady like Mes, that's the ideal situation, cause she has her pick of all these guys, some of whom she might fancy. So of COURSE she'd continue to perpetuate the myth that that's the "ideal" way for a guy to get into a solid, lasting relationship. But if you're going to try to delude the OP into thinking this is an ideal situation for him, then it is you who is posting misleading statements.

It's important to understand the forces that are present on both sides, and to remember the bigger picture. Look at human progress, health, lifespan, and general evolution. I promise you that your long life isn't a product of your male ancestors stampeding their way into the friend zone to become some female's GIRLFRIEND.

You are lucky you didn't get stuck in the friend zone if that is how all of your serious relationships have started.

Depends on what you mean by that. I don't believe there is such a thing as "getting stuck in the friendship zone". Luck didn't have anything to do with it. It was a natural process.

transitioning from friendship to relationship is almost impossible, especially if the two individuals are really good friends.

I disagree.

You really have no clue what you are talking about because you obviously didn't read everything I posted.

Originally Posted by ArcanumNoctis

You do that, then you have a high chance of getting stuck in the friend zone. It is best you date people you don't know much about. The whole point of dating is getting to know them on a relationship level, not a friendship level. Innately, they will be your best friend if the relationship turns out long and prosperous.

That's not my definition of "dating". To me dating is a way of getting to know someone who might be of interest to you on a relationship level. I simply don't share your view on how dating should be done.

I do believe that most people follow your definition of the word date, though. I should have made that clear in my last post. I apologize, that was my bad.

Originally Posted by Replicon

Assumptions about intent? Sure I'm making assumptions about the OP's intent. For one, the thread title is "Tell Me About Dating and Relationships" as opposed to tell me about how to get into the friend zone quickly and efficiently.

Who says I'm talking about getting into the friend zone quickly and efficiently? I simply stated my approach on how I believe solid relationships should get started.

He then goes on to ask about dating and relationships, and says such things as "Where can a guy like me meet the perfect girl?" (answer: anywhere!) and "How can you get a girl interested in you?"

He also says this:

Originally Posted by Skarr

But I just wanted to know about dating and relationships. How can I make the relationship work out if I do get a girl?

This is a core sentence in his post. I'm referring to this sentence in my post.

I think his intent is pretty clear, and when he sees a girl he's really interested in, acting like he's only interested in friendship would be dishonest.

Once again, who says I suggest that he should act like he's only interested in friendship? In my opinion the best way to get to know a person is to befriend them. This doesn't mean that I'm suggesting that he should show dishonesty towards himself, or to the person he's interested in, it only means that I believe he should get an idea of who he's actually dating. Thus, preventing from himself from ending up in a bad relationship. You make it sound very black and white.

In any case, within the context of this thread, the OP being "interested" in someone DOES mean "interested in finding girlfriend material."

Definitely. I believe this is best done through steady friendship.

But experience shows that it's much, much easier to move a sexual relationship into a deep, long-term, proper relationship than it is to move friend-zone friendship into anything other than more friend-zone stuff.

Not in my experience.

I think the only incorrect assumption is that "most guys wanting to seal the deal quickly" is the reason so many relationships end in tears.

I'm on staff at a fairly prominent relationship-based forum, and having read a lot of stories of people getting dumped and being "in tears" and stuff, I can tell you with confidence that "when you close the deal" rarely has anything to do with it.

I find this extremely hard to believe. Let's draw an analogy here between relationships and buying second-hand computers.

So you're surfing on the waves of the internet. All of a sudden you run into an online ad. It's a guy selling a second-hand computer. You've been looking for this kind of computer, so you decide to give the guy a call. You talk to him and set up a time for a meeting. A few hours later you get to his house. He meets you halfway with the computer in his hand. It looks great, but he tells you that once you pay for it, that's it. You won't get a cooling-off period.

The obvious reaction here would of course be to ask to test whether or not the computer is actually functional. But no, you decide to pay the man and drive off, unknowing of the quality of the product.

Relationships are very similar. The girl is the computer. You can either buy her right away, OR try her out and see if it's a product you actually want. Buying that computer without the knowledge of the content or the quality of it, will of course end in tears in more cases.

I don't see how you can argue against that logic.

and it's true that guys who will readily dive into the friend-zone rather than putting themselves out there and risking rejection are probably more interested in the long haul. It's true that women know for sure that all the guys in their "friend-zone aquarium" (cause most awesome women have at least 10 guys in there) are interested in the long haul. It's too bad they're mostly not attracted to those guys.

You make it sound as if it's a tactical approach to be in the friendship zone. If that's what you believe, you totally miss my point. Being in the friendship zone is the natural state of friendship. You enjoy your friendship and see where it takes you, without any further intent. Love will arise naturally, eventually.

A girl like that very often will have 10-20 "close guy friends" who, by the way, are often desperately in love with her. Now, to a classy lady like Mes, that's the ideal situation, cause she has her pick of all these guys, some of whom she might fancy. So of COURSE she'd continue to perpetuate the myth that that's the "ideal" way for a guy to get into a solid, lasting relationship. But if you're going to try to delude the OP into thinking this is an ideal situation for him, then it is you who is posting misleading statements.

It has worked for me in all cases. I'm sorry, but I only speak from experience. If Skarr wants to take my advice or not is up to him, I'm simply explaining how I think it should be done.

Originally Posted by XeL

Depends on what you mean by that. I don't believe there is such a thing as "getting stuck in the friendship zone". Luck didn't have anything to do with it. It was a natural process.

Slow down tiger. I'm pretty sure you are completely confused about what I'm talking about when it comes to serious relationships. Have you even been in one?

From my experiences, being friends then transitioning to a relationship has never worked. I'm not saying it is impossible, I'm just saying it is highly unlikely. I think if it could be done, it definitely would result in a strongly fortified long term relationship.

Anyhow, I do appreciate on what you said about dating. The thing is that the OP is looking to get into dating fast, which he is most likely looking for a serious relationship too. I'm just giving advice so that he won't be burnt and how he can initially find/develop a relationship that is long term.

Conversation, conversation, conversation...

Define serious

Originally Posted by XeL

Define serious

Long term commitment. Future. Marriage. Sex. Compatibility.

It should be self explanatory.

Oh... apart from sex, Nope.

I'm only 19, though. I need to live my life first.

I only know that I've never fallen in love with a girl before befriending her very well. I don't think this is entirely normal, though.

If you are in the friend zone, then it means she doesn't find you attractive. Usually people get into habits, and their view of you isn't going to change a great deal over time. Which is why people get stuck in that zone.

Now if you always wear baggy clothing and it hid the fact you were extremely ripped and buff, and you take her swimming and she suddenly sees that, you will naturally spring free of the friend zone with no trouble. Realistically however, there probably wont be any major moments that suddenly make you appear more attractive(though if you save her from a burning building you are in). So the main way of getting out, is to flirt more, drop hints about your sexuality, and stuff like that.

This isn't an issue for woman, since normally if a woman dressed up, a man will find them attractive. Though if you are a girl who doesn't dress up that often, and you don't flirt much, you can end up in the friend zone of a guy too.

Originally Posted by XeL

Once again, who says I suggest that he should act like he's only interested in friendship? In my opinion the best way to get to know a person is to befriend them. This doesn't mean that I'm suggesting that he should show dishonesty towards himself, or to the person he's interested in, it only means that I believe he should get an idea of who he's actually dating. Thus, preventing from himself from ending up in a bad relationship. You make it sound very black and white.

If you interpret my antics as making it sound black and white, then you are misinterpreting. Let's see if we can clarify a bit more (but I'm kinda growing disinterested in explaining - it's almost like a religious debate at this point, where nobody's gonna be convinced of anything - I actually quite LIKE the fact that most guys disagree with my views... makes life easier).

Still, I can see where our disconnect is. Let me attempt to bridge this gap for us. If you have a large social circle, and easily make lots of friends, and aren't in a position where you're doing things to get something from people (in general - this part has NOTHING to do with romance), then that will be naturally attractive, and it's very easy to get into a romantic relationship with someone, IF YOU GO FOR WHAT YOU WANT WHEN YOU SEE IT AT SOME POINT. That's for sure. If that is what you mean, then I 100% agree with you that that is one good way to go about life in general. I wouldn't say it's the best way to meet someone and enter a lasting relationship with them, because you have zero data to back that up (the plural of anecdote is not data).

Now, the point that I was approaching is not that, but rather, what MOST GUYS do, which is be "friends" with a girl that they LIKE (romantically) and ultimately get shot down over and over again, and told they are "too nice" because of their dicklessness when it comes to putting themselves out there.

Definitely. I believe this is best done through steady friendship.

See, I believe you can start a romantic relationship WHILE getting to know the person as well, and building the friendship piece. Now I ask you a question: What qualities of friendship do you think are prerequisites to a passionate romance that builds into something long-term and meaningful over time? Cause all I'm stating is that the "friendship" parts can develop parallel to the "passionate romance" parts, and that it's silly to try to do them one after the other. Why will a romance fail if it doesn't meet any of those prerequisites before it becomes a romance?

And what about all the people who've met on online dating sites and have been happy together for years? Did they build a long lasting friendship before stepping it up? Of course not. They went to a website whose sole business model is "mate-finding" and they met. They sent each other a couple of e-mails, and then they met. Zero friendship. The vast majority of people alive today (that I've interacted with), who've been together for 40, 50, 60+ years, didn't "hang out as friends" forever... they were just introduced, hit it off, and the rest is history. You can't deny that.

I'm happy for you that your experience has been favourable, but you can't really come out and say that it's the "best." I have exactly two friends who've been childhood friends with their now-wives. But most of my happily-married friends met the way more couples meet: You see her across the crowded room, are attracted to her, and walk over to say hi and find out what she's like. And once they hit it off, they hit it off. No need to put on the brakes and "be friends" first. The "steady friendship" stream is just one of many ways it can happen, and it's just one of many ways it can lead to a long-lasting, serious relationship. It's misleading and limiting to say otherwise.

I find this extremely hard to believe. Let's draw an analogy here between relationships and buying second-hand computers.

So you're surfing on the waves of the internet. All of a sudden you run into an online ad. It's a guy selling a second-hand computer. You've been looking for this kind of computer, so you decide to give the guy a call. You talk to him and set up a time for a meeting. A few hours later you get to his house. He meets you halfway with the computer in his hand. It looks great, but he tells you that once you pay for it, that's it. You won't get a cooling-off period.

The obvious reaction here would of course be to ask to test whether or not the computer is actually functional. But no, you decide to pay the man and drive off, unknowing of the quality of the product.

Relationships are very similar. The girl is the computer. You can either buy her right away, OR try her out and see if it's a product you actually want. Buying that computer without the knowledge of the content or the quality of it, will of course end in tears in more cases.

There are a number of ways this analogy completely fails to hold water. For one, you are making the assumption that once you buy a computer, you're stuck with it forever. Your analogy ONLY holds true if you have the option to return a computer for a FULL refund at any time with no hassle or questions asked... because after all, you can end a relationship pretty much any time you want.

If I could return the computer, hassle-free, then I would have no problems buying it and testing it out after I buy it. In fact, millions of people do that today. They order laptops from Dell. I ordered one, and it lasted me 6 years. My newer laptop, I ordered from System76, and I couldn't be happier. Oh, but I bought it before testing it. Imagine that!

Also, let me ask you this: What does "buying" mean in your analogy anyway? What is the difference between "testing things out" and "buying"? What investment are you talking about? You'll have to clarify this for me, cause I don't get it. I'm assuming that by "testing" you mean "friendship" and by "buying" you mean "romance" but the two are very, very different things. Maybe it would make more sense to say you'd like to test the shitty shareware version of something to get an idea of what the full version will be... But as far as I'm concerned, if I have the opportunity to "test" a computer fully before I buy it, I'd test all the features. I guess that means having sex. Wouldn't test a computer without checking if the DVD writer works, after all.

So yeah, your analogy fails to be an accurate analogy, and even if you ignore the analogy, it fails in real life, cause people are already doing what you describe in a way and are totally happy with it. It happens every time you buy something online.

I don't see how you can argue against that logic.

It's really not that hard.

You make it sound as if it's a tactical approach to be in the friendship zone. If that's what you believe, you totally miss my point. Being in the friendship zone is the natural state of friendship. You enjoy your friendship and see where it takes you, without any further intent. Love will arise naturally, eventually.

Per the beginning of this post, I don't assume anything is tactical like that, and we are actually in agreement about this point. The only difference is that I recognize that "love" is not some magical, airy-fairy thing that just happens. It's a subconscious PROCESS... it's something you DO. Are you saying that if that process gets kicked off sooner rather than later, it is invalid? I would quite disagree with that.

It has worked for me in all cases. I'm sorry, but I only speak from experience. If Skarr wants to take my advice or not is up to him, I'm simply explaining how I think it should be done.

Indeed, most guys do rely 100% on luck. It's certainly an easy option, and yields about as effectively as drilling for oil at a random location without having any understanding of how to look for good spots before you drill. I'm happy for you that you lucked out, and if Skarr assumes your way is the only way, I genuinely wish he also lucks out.

love

Originally Posted by Replicon

Hahaha my, how defensive.

I think you misunderstood me. "Being direct with your intention" is not the same as "walking up to a random girl and asking her out." You still walk up and engage in conversation and find out what she's like and stuff. But you DON'T do it from the BS pretense that you want to be her girlfriend. The frame of the interaction should be "I am a man, and you're a woman - we COULD connect, and procreate eventually." In fact, if you just walk up to some girl and ask her out without getting to know her first, it's kind of pathetic cause then you're just interested in looks. Soooo shallow. But you know what? It shouldn't take more than 20 minutes of face time to get a phone number or setup a meet. No need to be friends for weeks and weeks. TOO many guys are just too damn scared to put themselves out there and risk rejection, so they want to come in "under the radar" so to speak.

Hehe "weeks" == "bold"? BAH to you and your limiting beliefs!

Struck a nerve, did I? Did a girl say "it's not you, it's me" when she really meant "it's not me, it's you" in your recent past? Let's face it: I don't care if it's you. To me, "single" is not "a girl whose relationship status on facebook is set to single." Single just means a girl who isn't with someone in the way she truly, deeply, wants to be. How is that supposed to help? Well, for one, it might prevent a really awesome guy from giving up on a really awesome girl who happens to be with a really lame borefiend. Assume he's lame until you have reason to believe he isn't (i.e. he's not an abusive asshole, and she is totally head-over-heels into him).

I am not putting a stereotype on girls. I am putting a stereotype on guys. And given what the mainstream media is projecting, it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. See, you assume that girls who dump a lame bf for an awesome one are douchey, but the truth is, at least they're not cheating on said lame bf. In fact, if the bf were awesome, rather than lame, then this would be entirely moot.

And this is a thread with all sorts of ideas in it. It's up to the OP to decide what's helpful at his current stage and what's not. I'm just sharing my map, just like you are sharing yours. No need to hate.

Hmm... I was not being defensive at all. Just giving my opinions against yours from what I have experianced

I think I was talking about the wrong part of your quote, oops

Well, bold for me would be days/ weeks. I'm a very shy person

No nerve was struck. I was just simply going off what you said to paint a "reality" picture. Maybe I'm just thinking from a social standpoint that "sweeping a girl off their feet" is in the movies and isn't socially acceptable... or maybe I think that's wrong. If a girl has a "placeholder" BF, why not rid herself and break it off and not deal with it. I think it's because most feel obligated to stay and are afraid to break the other's heart

Out off all the girls I've been friends with, I'm pretty sure that if I asked any of them out, I would've gotten a yes, and the relationship would've been fine. I'm not denying the "friend zone" doesn't exist though. I was friends with my GF before we were together, and 7 yrs later we still go out to eat lunch/ dinner, movies, make each other laugh, inside jokes, annoy each other, have serious, intelligent conversations... maybe we're just that BA though, haha

I'd rather be alone for the rest of my life than having to read this whole thread

Read posts 2-6 and you'll be fine, lol