Sleep deprevation and lucid dreaming - strong POSITIVE correlation

**DpsBob** · 09-30-2010 01:49 AM

As the title implies, I'm starting to notice a very strong connection between sleep deprivation and lucid dreaming.

Last night I did not sleep until 4:30am, but once my body finally forced me to fall asleep, I was immediately launched into a 35-40 minute cycle of dreaming, attaining lucidity, false awakening, detecting the FA and becoming lucid again, waking up, falling back asleep, etc. etc.

This is the second time this has happened to me, and the first time I thought it was a fluke. Each incident featured a series of transitions from FA to lucidity, over and over again. After stumbling upon a few mostly unnoticed anecdotes from DV members mentioning this same phenomenon I am surprised that this has not been really addressed before.

Important: before each incident, I did some MILD affirmations for about 5 minutes before I fell asleep.

I would love to conduct an improv study with any willing volunteers to see if I can recreate my experience with someone else. I know relatively nothing about how this stuff works and I don't pretend to, but it's almost as if my body shuts itself off into sleep hastily without even turning my logic center off, and dreams become RIDICULOUSLY obviously dreams.

In the first dream, my friend rode by on a bike, and the fact that I had never seen him riding a bike was enough to shoot me into lucidity.

Sorry about the long post -
but let's get some discussion going, yeah?

This excites me. 4-5 lucids in once night, one after the other, after a 2 month dry spell.

**Mr_Fire** · 09-30-2010 02:04 AM

Hey Bob, I'm glad you posted about this. I was thinking about this in the back of my mind, but never thought to post about it.
I have a messed up sleep scheudle, I don't really goto sleep until I'm -dead- tired, usually up for close to 24 hours, or 24+ at a time.
And I also have noticed the same basic things you mention here. I also get excited about this, lol.
I have a lot of different things happen, I'll wake up and be able to re enter, among various other things.
I'd be interested in doing a 'survey' or study type thing on this, since I'm on a sleep deprived scheudle.
Right now for example, i've been up since about 2am, it's now 8pm. and going off of maybe 4-6 hours sleep
Let me know what you think.

**zhineTech** · 09-30-2010 11:08 PM

during a normal work week i get between 3-6 hours sleep a night. this seems to negatively affect my LDs and dreaming, i simply don't have enough sleep time to get those long REM periods in the morning.

BUT, i have noticed on at least two occasions, after a very busy, intense weekend with only 3-6 hours of sleep across three days, that the next night when i go to sleep dead tired, at my normal time, its almost like an instant, uncontrollable WILD. immediate HI and very loud audio, dream scenes opening up in front of me. but i was too tired and agitated by it to take advantage, i just wanted normal sleep.

i think this, and what you are describing, is REM rebound coming about full force in the first cycle of the night.

**NrElAx** · 09-30-2010 11:49 PM

I'd be able to give this a try one night. I don't really have to get up in the morning for anything so I'm free to stay up late. So what you're saying is that I should stay up really late, untill I'm almost too tired to stay awake, and then go ahead and sleep. Should I get a full 8 hours of sleep after I fall asleep.

**Mr_Fire** · 10-01-2010 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by NrElAx

I'd be able to give this a try one night. I don't really have to get up in the morning for anything so I'm free to stay up late. So what you're saying is that I should stay up really late, untill I'm almost too tired to stay awake, and then go ahead and sleep. Should I get a full 8 hours of sleep after I fall asleep.

Just sleep until you wake up and are ready to be up. No length in particular I guess.

**NrElAx** · 10-01-2010 06:40 AM

Well I made my mind up and I guess I will try this tonight. Its 10:40 now and Im already pretty tired but I will try and stay up till 4:30am or untill im too tired to stay awake. Before I go to bed I will perform some MILD affirmations. Will post my results tomarrow. I dont plan on doing this often though lol.

I actually made a post about this. I came home drunk one night and it was proabably 5 in the morning. I went to my bed, put my headphones on and started to listen to a song. All the sudden I was walking down a street with a giant crowd of people in san francisco(the city I live close to). I started freaking out because I knew I would get in trouble because I wouldnt be home in the morning. This whole time this one song was playing, then I woke up and the song was still on But the dream seemed to last forever. Its weird because I went directly into a dream.

**WolfTotem** · 10-01-2010 10:13 AM

Interesting. I've had all messed up sleep schedule lately and I have had two false dream journal entries yesterday morning and today, in other words FAs and I remember writing something to my dream journal. After I really woke up, I checked my journal and there were just a plank page! Usually if I write something in middle of the night, I'm only half awake, which could be the reason I really didn't paid much attention about my awereness/wake state.

**DpsBob** · 10-01-2010 10:29 PM

@Mr_Fire,

that's exactly what I'm talking about. It's not just that I'm LDing - it's ALL SORTS of phenomena, and it's really bizarre. The time between LDs is interrupted by some of the strangest dreaming experiences I've ever had, including a very strange state where still now I'm unsure of whether I was awake or asleep. There were a few times where I remember sitting in my bed and seeing shadowy figures standing by the door, and this strange place where the best I can describe was being "halfway lucid", it's just really really hard to describe.

I just wish the LDs were longer and more bright/vivid, but I guess seeings how these are lucids riding on the VERY FIRST waves of REM, it only makes sense that they would be short and dull.

For that reason I wouldn't want to make this my main technique for LDing, but I'm hoping that familiarity with this state will allow my mind to develop the tools it needs to enter lucid dreams later on in normal REM.

EDIT:

Oh, and @zhineTech, this technique does negatively effect my recall and LDing ability after I fully fall asleep, it's that border-state between consciousness and unconsciousness at the very beginning of the night where all this weirdness occurs. After I fall into true deep sleep, I wake remembering absolutely nothing.

Everything but that first 30-40 minutes is completely gone.

**NrElAx** · 10-02-2010 02:13 AM

Well I had a crazy dream last night. I don't know if I have half lucid or just dreaming I was lding but it was intense. You can read it in a thread I made. I woke up really confused if it was actually an LD, but think it was just a really realistic dream about luicid dreaming. But I don't know I think I might have been at the lowest level of counsious dreaming. Oh and I think I fell asleep at like 5 am but I actually wasn't too tired which I think affected me not going lucid right away

**Erii** · 10-02-2010 02:54 AM

i myself have been in a dryspell
making me pretty mad, but tonight's saturday night, i plan on going to bed late

so wish me luck!

**Erii** · 10-02-2010 02:58 AM

oh and for the MILD, what all do you do?
just autosuggestion or something?
(mostly on weekends) when I wake up a lot in the morning, briefly, (this happens about 4 times) every time I fall asleep then wake up, I remember a dream. but they are never clear, this usually happens even when I don't go to bed early, but recently I've been going to bed MUCH earlier then I usually do, so that might be causing my dryspell

**WolfTotem** · 10-04-2010 10:27 AM

I just keep having the FAs, relating to my dream journal. I end up writing on the top of a new page: "Press this (circle/button), if it turns red, you are dreaming.", and the result was no FA! Then I draw just the circle and I had the FA and an empty page (no circle) on my dream journal during the FA nor I woke up or became lucid.

But it seems the sleep deprivation is causing this.

**DpsBob** · 10-04-2010 11:02 PM

@ erible,

I have a few mantras I use for the MILD, or I guess more accurately, the V-MILD.

I repeat the following, while visualizing myself becoming lucid in a dream scenario:

"When I dream I, I realize I am dreaming"
"Dreams are obviously dreams" - inspired by a thread discouraging the use of "I", seems very effective

Eventually I reach a point where the idea of lucid dreaming is so stuck in my mind that I KNOW I will LD, and at that point, when I truly KNOW, there is nothing stopping me from LDing.

Keep in mind everybody that this is not something I suggest you use as a staple in your induction techniques, but rather something you do to familiarize yourself with the feeling of lucid dreaming. Since the last time I did this I have had on average a lucid dream every other night.

I'm going to try and nail down exactly how sleep deprived you need to be.