Thread: A Unique Method for Lucid Dream Induction

I run a website that specializes in sounds to fall asleep to. I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered that there is an interesting side effect that occasionally occurs. Lucid dreams. My theory of lucid dreaming is based on current popular beliefs that the big human brain transitions from Alpha (relaxed) to Theta (daydream) to Delta (deep sleep) brainwave patterns. REM sleep occurs near the beginning of Delta sleep and reoccurs through the night in transitional areas of this brainwave state (as we first go into, then come out of Delta) Therefore, I believe that the Theta state (that comfy daydreamy feeling you get right before slipping off to sleep) and REM sleep are inherently tied together and sometimes overlap.

Our relaxation and sleep recordings work on the Theta state. Unlike other relaxing nature sounds that pretty much work in the Alpha state. Why? Because of the visualization elements that are in the sounds. Based on what I know today I feel secure in stating that lucid dreams occur in an overlap of REM sleep and the Theta brainwave state.

I do not construct our sounds for that purpose, however. It was a happy side-effect. What we do is assist the troubled sleeper into that Theta state, and thereby into Delta (deep sleep) by combining relaxing sleep inducing sounds with the mind's natural ability to visualize. Through a little effort on the sleeper's part to remain conscious it is possible for lucid dreaming to occur.

Check it out it you have a mind to... here and give me your feedback and suggestions for new sounds.

If only they were free, oh well guess I will have to lucid dream without dream aids then

Its called meditation WAVs, you can get them free from any other site .

There is nothing like them anywhere... if there were I would have found them by now

Originally Posted by faceonmars

There is nothing like them anywhere... if there were I would have found them by now

Beyond Being

Reports have been coming in of people having OBE's and LD's with this one. I found it a highly interesting experience when the isochronic tones suddenly hurtled up into the gamma range.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Beyond Being

Reports have been coming in of people having OBE's and LD's with this one. I found it a highly interesting experience when the isochronic tones suddenly hurtled up into the gamma range.

'Note: These samples are provided to give you an idea of the way Beyond Being sounds. These will NOT have a significant effect on your brain.'

lol, I think the underlined section is the most important factor in whether these tones work or not.

ps. Mindupdate (his blog) isn't working for me.

I have the tracks and all three are about an hour long. They do have a significant effect on your brain. Listen to one of these tracks and hook yourself up to an electroencephalogram machine and you will see that your dominant brainwave patterns will change. The blog: New study on Brainwave Entrainment (By Dr. Huang) - Mind Update

Apparently lucid dreamers are cheap there are some free sounds here : Free Tinnitus Masking Download

These types of music induce conscious changes of your brains state of mind, aka brainwave entertainment.
Binaural Beats - Two noises playing into each ear at slightly different frequencies.
Monaural Beats - Two noises that create the desired frequency by playing the same tone using different pulses.
Isochronic Tones - The exact same tone playing on and off. Much more successful than the other two types.

I think this below be the best combination. It takes five to ten minutes for the beats to take effect.

Monaural/Isochronic (Alpha) - 10:00
Binaural (Delta) - 15:00-20:00 [All other types of noises do not effectively create the Delta brain range)
Any (Theta) - 15:00-20:00
Isochronic (Gamma) - 10:00+ [Gamma is the most aware state of mind, inducing lucidity]

Sorry, but there is no scientific proof that binaural (umm, can we just say stereo?) beats do anything what-so-ever. They are the snake oil of the metaphysical genre'. If I want good binaural beats I will put on an old Pink Floyd record.

Originally Posted by faceonmars

Sorry, but there is no scientific proof that binaural (umm, can we just say stereo?) beats do anything what-so-ever. They are the snake oil of the metaphysical genre'. If I want good binaural beats I will put on an old Pink Floyd record.

Tina L. Huang, Ph.D., working in conjunction with Ohio State University psychology professor Christine Charyton, Ph.D., has published a new study on brainwave entrainment.

Here is Dr. Huang's blog

Human auditory steady state responses to binaural ... [Clin Neurophysiol. 2005] - PubMed result

Originally Posted by mikeac

Human auditory steady state responses to binaural ... [Clin Neurophysiol. 2005] - PubMed result

CONCLUSIONS: The dependence of the 40Hz binaural beat ASSR on stimuli at low, temporally coded tone frequencies suggests that it may objectively assess temporal sound coding ability. The phase shift across the electrode array is evidence for more than one origin of the 40Hz oscillations.

I appreciate the link but what does the above study have to do with lucid dreams? Lucid dreams exist in between the Delta and Theta brainwave states. In fact, one could extrapolate that a LD is the perfect balance between two states of consciousness.

Originally Posted by faceonmars

CONCLUSIONS: The dependence of the 40Hz binaural beat ASSR on stimuli at low, temporally coded tone frequencies suggests that it may objectively assess temporal sound coding ability. The phase shift across the electrode array is evidence for more than one origin of the 40Hz oscillations.

I appreciate the link but what does the above study have to do with lucid dreams? Lucid dreams exist in between the Delta and Theta brainwave states. In fact, one could extrapolate that a LD is the perfect balance between two states of consciousness.

Not that, this is sorta proof of binaural beats effect. I've done some research on it, and tried them myself, and they work. I did a EILD with theta and gamma waves and delta waves made me fall asleep really quickly.

Originally Posted by faceonmars

I appreciate the link but what does the above study have to do with lucid dreams? Lucid dreams exist in between the Delta and Theta brainwave states. In fact, one could extrapolate that a LD is the perfect balance between two states of consciousness.

I think you're rocking out some pseudo-science there.

The lay calm and still method, works for me, I can only lucid dream on the weekend is would seem.

The easiest way for anyone to learn about lucid dreams is to do a general study of the brain's process of sleep. The Alpha, Theta and Delta brainwave states are well known and documented. To understand LD's one must understand the mechanics of dreaming. Any other path is simply chasing the perverbial wild goose. However, I also believe there will be a time in the near future that LDs will be induced with drugs. And THAT , my friends, will be many more times addictive then crack. Can you imagine wanting to stay in the real world when you have super powers in the lucid dream world? Happy LD-ing!

Originally Posted by faceonmars

The easiest way for anyone to learn about lucid dreams is to do a general study of the brain's process of sleep. The Alpha, Theta and Delta brainwave states are well known and documented. To understand LD's one must understand the mechanics of dreaming. Any other path is simply chasing the perverbial wild goose. However, I also believe there will be a time in the near future that LDs will be induced with drugs. And THAT , my friends, will be many more times addictive then crack. Can you imagine wanting to stay in the real world when you have super powers in the lucid dream world? Happy LD-ing!

I totally agree with this man here. Some day, not sure when, but LD's will be possible by taking some pill. They will become far more abused than any other drug on the planet, they will then become illegal lol.

Also, think about this. Think about a LD you had, think of the amazingly realistic world, the ability to summon a door and step into an entirely new area. The ability to find a book, or comic in a dream, for the mind to be able to create the art work, the words, the story line, in matter of seconds... it is incredible to me. The ability that the mind has while asleep is beyond belief, one day, we will learn how to utilize some of this while awake.

Tim Post even says that theta waves induce dreams, BUT they do not induce lucidity. He also said, in order to achieve lucidity, you must be aware you are dreaming. The high beta and gamma wave ranges induce exactly that.

There is a leap of faith involved in finding causation from correlation - can you actually prove that beta/gamma waves induce (cause) lucidity? It may simply be that lucidity is accompanied by beta/gamma waves.

Ok, but if your dominant brainwave patterns do change, how does this relate to being the causative factor in achieving lucidity?

It is understandable that the presence of A (Brainwave Tracks) can cause the presence of B (Particular Brainwaves), and that the presence of B (Particular Brainwaves) co-occurs with the presence of C (Lucidity); however, how can it be substantiated that B (Particular Brainwaves) is a causative factor in achieving C (Lucidity)?

I'm basically trying to say that correlation does not imply causation. And if you could provide evidence of causation, I would be greatly interested.

Originally Posted by Quark

Ok, but if your dominant brainwave patterns do change, how does this relate to being the causative factor in achieving lucidity?

It is understandable that the presence of A (Brainwave Tracks) can cause the presence of B (Particular Brainwaves), and that the presence of B (Particular Brainwaves) co-occurs with the presence of C (Lucidity); however, how can it be substantiated that B (Particular Brainwaves) is a causative factor in achieving C (Lucidity)?

I'm basically trying to say that correlation does not imply causation. And if you could provide evidence of causation, I would be greatly interested.

I have most of my lucid dreams and OBE's immediately upon waking after six hours of sleep. I postulated the idea that if I used brainwave entrainment in an attempt to recreate the conditions of my brainwave patterns as soon as I awaken from six hours sleep I may be able to have lucids at any time of day by merely listening to a specific brainwave entrainment track. I got a reply from a support worker at transparent corporation and they had this to say on the matter:

"What you're looking for is stage 5 or REM sleep. As we sleep, we cycle through 5 stages, theta, theta with spindles and K-complexes, delta, and REM. We go through this cycle (approx. 90 min each) 4 or 5 times a night. Each time we cycle, we go through less delta and more REM. By the time we awake, we are almost having all REM sleep.

The brainwave pattern during REM is paradoxical as it displays patterns as if we were awake. While predominantly theta, we will also show alpha, beta and gamma.

At the moment, I am experimenting with sleep sessions using isochronic tones for theta/ delta, and using noise embedded with alpha, beta and gamma simultaneously during selected stages. Research shows that individuals experiencing OOBE's show a lot of gamma, so give that a try."

The scientists at transparent corporation are studying this and perhaps one day there will be enough empirical data to suggest that brainwave entrainment can help to induce lucid dreams and OBE's.

Yeah, if A+B definitely equals C, it would be ground-breaking, but if not this is just as likely to work as DILD or MILD, right? We could perform a sample experiment on DV users and people with no knowledge of Lucid Dreaming, a similar study has been conducted here before though, and it showed no explicit causative relations. If this seems different to you, then it might be an idea. Good luck, all the best with this!

Originally Posted by cyanidebaby

Yeah, if A+B definitely equals C, it would be ground-breaking, but if not this is just as likely to work as DILD or MILD, right? We could perform a sample experiment on DV users and people with no knowledge of Lucid Dreaming, a similar study has been conducted here before though, and it showed no explicit causative relations. If this seems different to you, then it might be an idea. Good luck, all the best with this!

Yeah, the problem that plagues the testing of most of these 'techniques' is expectation bias and a lack of sufficient trials to rule out chance.

I wonder what's with all the internet marketers coming to the forum lately, trying to sell us their stuff