What am I doing wrong?

[EpicWarhog]

I know everyone's sick of newbies complaining but the reality is that most of the members on the site are learners and not teachers. My first problem is successfully getting into SP. I've been trying to WILD for over 3 months now , but every single time I have faced this exact issue. I try my best to stay conscious but I either fall asleep , or just quit because I'm failing. I have read many articles here on the site , as well as the WILD section of LaBerge's book about Lucid Dreaming. I'm not yet ready to give up on WILD's , so any helpful and considerate advice would be appreciated. If I manage to enter SP , what should I do exactly to enter an LD. Once I completely lose hope and lose my intentions of WILDing , I'll stop and switch techniques. But for now , anything that increases my chances is helpful. Please post only If you share this problem or you are an actual experienced WILDer that has been successful with WILD's and had problems like this in the beginning. Don't just copy/paste other people's post. Thanks in advance.

[gab]

Don't worry, nobody is sick of anybody asking any questions. Most of us are still learning and the few lucky naturals and very experienced guys are only happy to share. Let me say, that I have never experienced SP while trying to WILD. The closest I came to SP was, when after a while I had to swallow and I noticed my jaw is little bit stiff. I have never tried to get to SP or paid any attention to it, other than couple of times I tried to move my pinkie to see if I'm in SP, and I was always able to move it. What I concentrate on, is the images behind my closed eyelids, to keep my excitement down and to stay aware just the right amount. I'm sure you know, but I'm gonna mention it anyway, best time to WILD is after about 4.5 hours of sleep. When I go to bed at midnight, I get up at 5 am and stay up for WBTB around 30 min. The time you get up and for how long is up to you, you have to experiment with it. Did you ever get to the stage of seeing images behind your closed eyelids, that later turn into movies/dreams? When I see a dream that has formed, I pick a spot in it and say deliberately and slowly: 'I ... am... there.' After this I'm transported closer into the dream, until I touch the ground and I'm in. I only mention this, because this part was the hardest one for me to figure out - how to acctually enter the dream. Needless to say, you have to be patient for maybe 30 min, being still (an occasional swallowing, scratching or moving works fine for me, but should be avoided, unless it causes you big distraction), until you start seeing images. About falling asleep - I usually repeat some mantra, or concentrate on breathing to keep me aware. I occasionally slip into sleep but come back to and continue with attempt. If you'd like to describe what exactly happens with you, maybe we could offer some advice. And don't give up, you will succeed

[Sivason]

Hi, I would not worry about anyone minding the same questions coming up. I personally use this forum as a way to keep my mind on LD, because as everyone has heard, focusing on LDs makes them happen. First, I think i should start a thread explaining SP unless I can find another one. I notice alot of people are a little confused or misimformed on it. gab, you mention trying to move your pinky and being able to. You have gone through SP if you have ever successfully WILD, but maybe you did not know what you could expect. The big confusion is the word 'paralysis', it is a state that while in normal sleep keeps you from trying to walk or fight and so on. It does not freeze the body up in a rigid paralysis. What you are looking for is just the stage where to make a large motion like scratching your nose, would take direct focus and intent on your part. Trying to move is conter productive as you will always be able to breal SP if you try. You just get a heavy feeling and any movement would take mental focus, but applying mental focus will break the SP. that is unless you are good enough, then you can do something simple like shift position or scratch and keep in SP. You have probably been aware and in SP often enough. EpicWarhog, I would not give up. Entering a WILD is a hard skill to develop. I have 23ish years of practice, and I still need that 4.5 hours sleep or I fail 90% of the time. With the sleep, I fail 50% of the time if sober, and much more if drunk or on heavy sleep aids. I have started two threads that should address the issue of entering the LD once you get to SP. I have included a link to one, I think it is post #8 where I explain how the method can be used to get into an LD. The other thread is titled 'Just starting? You may allready be there and not know it" I hope some of the info helps. Don't give up, it takes a long time, but is worth it. http://www.dreamviews.org/f12/train-...-wilds-128960/

[OneiroMoon]

My first problem is successfully getting into SP. I've been trying to WILD for over 3 months now , but every single time I have faced this exact issue. I try my best to stay conscious but I either fall asleep , or just quit because I'm failing. I suppose you already know the basic things about WILDing, so here's my own experiences with the technique: I'm having the best results when I have time to sleep a lot, and can wake up without alarm after 8-9 hours. Despite that I'm not feeling tired at all, I can always fall asleep again. It's easy for me to stay aware while doing so, because of the fact that I'm very refreshed (which makes it harder to lose consciousness). At this time I also have a lot of REM sleep, so it doesn't take long before I reach sleep paralysis (which for me feels like strong vibrations). Then it's only a matter of seconds before I'm in a WILD. If I manage to enter SP , what should I do exactly to enter an LD. There are more ways than one to have a WILD, but I can describe how I do: In order to enter a lucid dream from sleep paralysis, I don't really have to do anything special. I just stay calm and don't think about that I'm lying in my bed. At first I only see blackness, but at the end of the transition (when I no longer feel the vibrations) I "wake up" in a dream version of my bedroom.

[gab]

@ sivason Thanks for clarifying the SP. Good post.

[Sivason]

http://www.dreamviews.org/f79/just-s...t-know-128997/ @ sivason Thanks for clarifying the SP. Good post. My pleasure gab, I decided not to start anew thread and just added a small section in another thread. The link here goes to it. It just goes over the same idea, but with a little more detail.

[lilfrankster101]

Don't worry, nobody is sick of anybody asking any questions. Most of us are still learning and the few lucky naturals and very experienced guys are only happy to share. Let me say, that I have never experienced SP while trying to WILD. The closest I came to SP was, when after a while I had to swallow and I noticed my jaw is little bit stiff. I have never tried to get to SP or paid any attention to it, other than couple of times I tried to move my pinkie to see if I'm in SP, and I was always able to move it. What I concentrate on, is the images behind my closed eyelids, to keep my excitement down and to stay aware just the right amount. I'm sure you know, but I'm gonna mention it anyway, best time to WILD is after about 4.5 hours of sleep. When I go to bed at midnight, I get up at 5 am and stay up for WBTB around 30 min. The time you get up and for how long is up to you, you have to experiment with it. Did you ever get to the stage of seeing images behind your closed eyelids, that later turn into movies/dreams? When I see a dream that has formed, I pick a spot in it and say deliberately and slowly: 'I ... am... there.' After this I'm transported closer into the dream, until I touch the ground and I'm in. I only mention this, because this part was the hardest one for me to figure out - how to acctually enter the dream. Needless to say, you have to be patient for maybe 30 min, being still (an occasional swallowing, scratching or moving works fine for me, but should be avoided, unless it causes you big distraction), until you start seeing images. About falling asleep - I usually repeat some mantra, or concentrate on breathing to keep me aware. I occasionally slip into sleep but come back to and continue with attempt. If you'd like to describe what exactly happens with you, maybe we could offer some advice. And don't give up, you will succeed thanks sab. i realized that i always start seeing colors of tunnels, but never actually go through sleep paralysis. maybe im just like you and i dont need it. anyways, can you tell us your success rate at WILDing?

[gab]

thanks sab. i realized that i always start seeing colors of tunnels, but never actually go through sleep paralysis. maybe im just like you and i dont need it. anyways, can you tell us your success rate at WILDing? Well, I didn't say that I don't have SP. You must be in SP in REM. Otherwise, we would act out our dreams and hurt ourselfs. I just ment, that I'm not aware of being in SP, as opposed to lots of people with auditory and tactile hallucination during SP. That's why I'm not trying to feel the SP in order to progress in the transition to LD. And honestly, I can't really figure out my success rate at WILDing, because of many different factors. I do take GalantaMind, vitamin B-complex, now I started with 5-HTP, all in different combinations. Sometimes I do WBTB, at different times of night and morning. Many of my DILDs happend after failed attempt to WILD. But those, I consider success. I started LDing on Oct.3,2011 Oct. - 4 DILDs, 1 DEILD Nov. - nothing, although I tried hard Dec. - 5 OBEs, 3 DILDs, 2 WILDs Jan. - 2 OBEs, 2 DILDs, 8 WILDs Feb. - 2 WILDs - had some issues, couldn't concentrate Mar. - 2 WILDs, 4 DILDs so far

[Chewnie91]

I have mastered the WILD and achieved somewhere close to 2000 lucids through this technique. You do not have to enter SP/ or see hallucinations to WILD. During most of my WILDs I dont even hit SP before im in the dream. Also, I rarely see HI. I get auditory hallucinations and abrupt bodily transition signs (ex. feeling like im falling, being stretches, etc.) Do not focus so much on SP that is probably a bigger problem than you think. When was in the beginner phases of learning to WILD, focusing on the INTENT to have a dream caused me to fail countless times (hundreds and hundreds lol). Just relax and let your mind and body become passive. I use active daydreaming (vizualizing whatever you wanna call it lol) to keep my mind intact and from falling into unconsciousness. I first use deep breathing to really relax any tension I have and then try to let all of the thoughts of the day go. If you see hallucinations on most of your attempts consider yourself lucky lol its a good sign you are moving in the right direction. ANYWAY, on the rare occasion that I do see HI, I wait until it develops into full blown images and scenes as they have mentioned above. It is almost impossible to explain how to "enter" the dream as it is different for everyone I believe. I like to integrate all of my senses to really get me "in". Try to imagine yourself IN the image you see and imagine touching what you see, hearing the sounds, the smells. Really try to imagine it as though you are walking in the scene itself. When you will yourself physically into the dream, I word it as your conscious mind merging with the unconscious, you will find yourself in the scene. Then establish control. If you have anymore questions feel free to ask

[Chewnie91]

Well, I didn't say that I don't have SP. You must be in SP in REM. Otherwise, we would act out our dreams and hurt ourselfs. I just ment, that I'm not aware of being in SP, as opposed to lots of people with auditory and tactile hallucination during SP. That's why I'm not trying to feel the SP in order to progress in the transition to LD. And honestly, I can't really figure out my success rate at WILDing, because of many different factors. I do take GalantaMind, vitamin B-complex, now I started with 5-HTP, all in different combinations. Sometimes I do WBTB, at different times of night and morning. Many of my DILDs happend after failed attempt to WILD. But those, I consider success. I started LDing on Oct.3,2011 Oct. - 4 DILDs, 1 DEILD Nov. - nothing, although I tried hard Dec. - 5 OBEs, 3 DILDs, 2 WILDs Jan. - 2 OBEs, 2 DILDs, 8 WILDs Feb. - 2 WILDs - had some issues, couldn't concentrate Mar. - 2 WILDs, 4 DILDs so far AHHH yes thats what I couldnt phrase lol! Thats what I really meant by im not usually in SP before I enter the dream. Usually im so zoned out and relaxed I dont even realize it setting in.

[gab]

@Chewnie91 - may I ask, how do you enter dream, if you don't see HI? I think when I don't see HI, I try to induce the acceleration - fast flight head first, or I just fall asleep.

[Chewnie91]

I get audio hallucinations and bodily abnormalities that key me on where I am in the process. I usually just see blackness. Then begin to feel vibrations and auditory hallucinations, they get more and more intense. Then everything stops. Next thing I know, I open my eyes and I'm in the dream. That's what I had to learn to master it for myself. I don't see too much HI which kept throwing me off when I would try to learn WILD, but not that I know MY way of entering the dream it was easy to master that I do sometimes get HI and its nice because its different, but mostly I just ride out the vibrations and open my eyes in dream land.

[gab]

Then begin to feel vibrations and auditory hallucinations, they get more and more intense. Then everything stops. Next thing I know, I open my eyes and I'm in the dream. That's what I had to learn to master it for myself. I don't see too much HI which kept throwing me off when I would try to learn WILD, but not that I know MY way of entering the dream it was easy to master that I do sometimes get HI and its nice because its different, but mostly I just ride out the vibrations and open my eyes in dream land. That makes sense. I have noticed, that I'm getting vibrations pretty much everytime I return from restroom and at WBTB. Like last night, vibrations were stronger than usually, but still considered mild, and I saw none of the HI. I must have fallen asleep while waiting for HI. Do you get just one bout of vibrations, or is there more? If more, how do you know, which one is the last, when yo can open your eyes and be in the dream? Do you see your room with astral vision - through your closed eyelids, or which eyes do you open? I have more than one bout of vibrations, usually at least 3, and then they stop, or I fall asleep, not sure which.

[Chewnie91]

It can vary. I've come to know my bodies signs and when its truly OVER which is how I've achieved so many WILDs. Most of the time its just one set of rapid vibrations and then they stop. Other times they start off gradual and increase over time. I know I'm in the dream when it stops and I can just feel that I'm there. There are a few times I've used astral vision, non intentionally. I've had dreams where the vibrations stopped and then a DC asked me "why do you have your eyes closed?" and then I opened them in my dream world. I think to an extent I am a partly natural WILDer which is why I can achieve so many. When I first started practicing it it was hard but I got the hang of it fairly quickly. Like a few weeks before I really had it down to a science.

[gab]

It can vary. I've come to know my bodies signs and when its truly OVER which is how I've achieved so many WILDs. Most of the time its just one set of rapid vibrations and then they stop. Other times they start off gradual and increase over time. I know I'm in the dream when it stops and I can just feel that I'm there. There are a few times I've used astral vision, non intentionally. I've had dreams where the vibrations stopped and then a DC asked me "why do you have your eyes closed?" and then I opened them in my dream world. I think to an extent I am a partly natural WILDer which is why I can achieve so many. When I first started practicing it it was hard but I got the hang of it fairly quickly. Like a few weeks before I really had it down to a science. Thanks so much! At first, I had a problem with entering a dream when seeing HI/dreamscapes forming. I figured that out. I guess, now it's time to tackle "the vibrations".