Toilet Induced Lucid Dream (TILD)

**Schmaven** · 07-09-2014 04:25 PM

Apparently TILD has many different meanings. There is another thread about Toilet Induced Lucid Dreams (the only TILD I will be referring to in this thread), but it is not quite the same as what I'm talking about.

The TILD method I am experimenting with here is all about those times when you literally fall asleep while sitting on the toilet. Maybe I'm the only one who does this, but working a 10 hour shift, and biking hard to and from work, all on an average of just 6 hours of sleep makes it unfortunately common right when I get home from work.

I have had two dreams that I remembered long enough to log here so far using this method. Just today, I had 4, but only remembered 1 of them. The purpose of this thread is to track my progress and experimentation with this method until I get a lucid dream this way, or until my sleep schedule changes and it is no longer convenient to practice the TILD method.

Observations:
- All this generally occurs within 3 - 10 minutes
- I am totally relaxed, usually resting my head on my hand
- Eyes open or closed, doesn't matter
- My thoughts begin to wander much more outside of my conscious control, while still being within my conscious awareness.
- Thoughts link to other thoughts through recognizable associations from my personal experiences, but the associations are unconscious until back-tracking moment to moment after the TILD event.
- The thoughts change from one to the other very quickly, not lingering on any particular one for much elaboration or further fleshing out of the details.
- I generally think in a particular direction, about a specific thing, on purpose, until I get distracted by random associations. Once distracted, other distractions arise and I usually don't even notice I've lost my focus.
* One of the thoughts becomes a dream at some point, and I directly experience it with all my senses. Just like waking life, I am at the place and time, surrounded by the characters and events that support that thought.
- As soon as I realize I'm seeing my thoughts, "dreaming", I think about how cool that is and wake up.
- The duration is historically quite short, just long enough to see a few scenes / hear a few sentences, and then notice I am dreaming. That recognition of "I'm seeing my thoughts" has occurred at the exact time I've woken up most times, but not every time.
- My head falling off my hand, leads to my body falling forward, the falling sensation then wakes me up before I biff it head first, pants down, off the toilet.
- I notice the process of what happened after waking up, or while waking up. (The whole distraction by random association, followed by random thoughts, and eventually a dream that spawns directly from the thought)

Hypotheses to test:
- My method of recognizing that I am dreaming is waking me up because I'm framing it from my awake perspective of, "I'm on the toilet, and seeing my thoughts right now"
- There is a way to relate to the thoughts as they are chaining to each other quickly in such a way as to expedite the "dream" experience.
- Too much conscious control of my thoughts prevents the dream state

Experiments to conduct during a potential TILD session:
- - - - - Note: None of these have to make sense to you, I can elaborate if it works, or requested.
- Relate to all my thoughts as "me" (doesn't have to make sense to you, I'll explain it more if it works)
- Purposefully do not focus my mind on just what my mind is thinking, not on a specific thought
- Fully imagine using all my senses the dream I wish to have, while being very flexible to let the specifics be unconsciously created. Consciously only adding the imagined experience to what my unconscious mind is presenting to me.
- Different hand positions that are more stable? Maybe a two handed prop instead of one handed. Maybe leaning back on the toilet reservoir tank (note: clean it first).

Now that I'm seriously pursuing TILDs, I am reminded that they are all really just a subset of WILDs, so I assume some of the specific techniques that work for TILDs will carry over to WILDs. The advantage of a TILD is the limited duration of the sleeping time without needing an alarm clock - making it easier to recall the dreams.

Just think of all the cool stories you could tell your friends if you had some epic TILDs.

**ThreeCat** · 07-10-2014 07:51 PM

I don't seem to have this problem. You must have quite a bit of earth element in you--either that, or you are perhaps sleep deprived?

**Schmaven** · 07-11-2014 03:02 PM

I'd bet my bottom dollar it's sleep deprivation. But I'll work with it until I manage to get enough rest :-)

**ThreeCat** · 07-11-2014 07:13 PM

I would actually try sitting in a recliner chair (in the up position) or sitting in some meditative posture with your back propped against the wall? It seems there is a good chance you might slouch and fall off of the toilet and hurt yourself.

Also (I know you said your techniques did not have to make sense, but), try not identifying with thoughts at all. Most human beings identify with their thoughts all day long; it's what we normally do as we fall into non-lucid sleep. Try being aware of your mind! Then you can be aware of a dream forming without thinking it is real. Just a thought

**Schmaven** · 08-06-2014 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by ThreeCat

Also (I know you said your techniques did not have to make sense, but), try not identifying with thoughts at all. Most human beings identify with their thoughts all day long; it's what we normally do as we fall into non-lucid sleep. Try being aware of your mind! Then you can be aware of a dream forming without thinking it is real. Just a thought

I like that idea. If you have any further thoughts about how to accomplish not identifying with the thoughts at all, and being aware of my mind, I'm certainly interested in hearing more. I have tried a few meditations focusing on the mind itself, focusing on it as a formless continuum, creating my entire experience through imputation. With thoughts merely arising from, and dissolving back into the clarity of the mind, like clouds appearing and disappearing above a mountain top. But I've never thought to try it when falling asleep yet.

After another unexpected nap today, I realized that a common factor in non-lucid dreams like these is being completely surprised by sleep. When I lay down in bed, I generally assume I'll fall asleep at some point, but this has been mostly lacking in my TILD attempts.

**ThreeCat** · 08-06-2014 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Schmaven

I like that idea. If you have any further thoughts about how to accomplish not identifying with the thoughts at all, and being aware of my mind, I'm certainly interested in hearing more. I have tried a few meditations focusing on the mind itself, focusing on it as a formless continuum, creating my entire experience through imputation. With thoughts merely arising from, and dissolving back into the clarity of the mind, like clouds appearing and disappearing above a mountain top. But I've never thought to try it when falling asleep yet.

After another unexpected nap today, I realized that a common factor in non-lucid dreams like these is being completely surprised by sleep. When I lay down in bed, I generally assume I'll fall asleep at some point, but this has been mostly lacking in my TILD attempts.

I believe it is a mix of being in the right frame of mind before sleep (mentally and biologically) and having something suitable to meditate on (an anchor). It sounds like what you are trying to do is WILD from a seated posture, which sounds very doable to me. I would suggest taking your idea over to Sageous's WILD attempt thread (http://www.dreamviews.com/wild/13309...-bad-here.html), and asking him what he thinks.

Also, quick note: TILD is usually known as the "Thirst Induced Lucid Dream." Hard to find a good name these days!

If you decide to ask our master WILDer, I will watch the conversation, as I am interested in what he has to say. Good luck!

**Battler** · 08-06-2014 04:34 PM

"Toilet induced lucid dream"
I think we've gone too far.

**ThreeCat** · 08-06-2014 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by Battler

"Toilet induced lucid dream"
I think we've gone too far.

Well, the nice thing about Dreamviews is that we can all pursue lucidity in whatever ways we choose, in a (most of the time) non-judgmental environment. I personally think this is a great idea for exploring hypnagogic imagery and dreamlets. Schmaven may learn something important from his experiments as well!

**Schmaven** · 08-12-2014 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Battler

"Toilet induced lucid dream"
I think we've gone too far.

I was a bit hesitant to make a thread about it honestly. But since I'm sincerely aiming for a lucid dream on the john, I thought it might at the very least be entertaining for people.

Recently, I've had a couple more surprise TILD attempts, and haven't had much new insight into them yet. My plan going forward is to try to take the surprise factor out and see what that does. So I'll just anticipate dreaming each time, instead of assuming I won't fall asleep in there (usually that's a pretty reliable assumption for most people).

What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here That's a really great thread. Sageous has a lot of valuable experience that I find inspiring and helpful in my learning process.