mantra affirmation - present or future?

[mangadesuyo]

Some say when repeating mantra affirmation it's better to use present tense than future tense: for example instead of "I will recognize I am dreaming" Instead of: "Next time I am dreaming, I will recongize I am dreaming" However when it's in future tense I think it has to do with prospective memory which is suppose to be very important for lucid dreaming, and present tense... I don't think it has anything to do with prospective memory? Anyone have any opinions about that? (mostly the prospective memory deal) Thanks!

[Sageous]

^^ The reason to use a present-tense mantra is so that you aren't handing your unconscious a suggestion to always have lucidity in the near future. In other words, you could chant your way into the dream with a future-tense mantra, and then might just continue that chant during the dream in a non-lucid manner, allowing your unconscious/dreaming mind to create a theme in your dream that includes your plan to recognize that you will be lucid; this theme might leave lucidity lying in the future, just out of reach, throughout your dream. I think it is better to keep things in the present tense so that your dreaming mind doesn't misinterpret your wishes. All that said: In the end it isn't the specific mantra you are using, but what that mantra means to you and your dreaming goals. Keep the mantra sincere and meaningful, be sure that it connects directly to your goals, and its tense might not matter so much. Finally, I think working your prospective memory is more of a daytime effort, so what you use as a mantra at bedtime shouldn't have an effect on triggering your prospective memory. [P.S: I think both examples you gave were forms of future tense, but that does not invalidate your question . "I recognize that I am dreaming," would be the present-tense example of the phrase, I think. ]

[sisyphus]

The second form comes straight from ETWOLD, which is why it's so often repeated. The exact sentence from ETWOLD is: "The next time I'm dreaming, I'll remember I'm dreaming." And then I recall having a CD (remember those?) with a guided meditation by LaBerge and the line was: "The next time I am dreaming, I will remember to recognize that I am dreaming." I used the latter one for a long time to much success. I think it's important that the line include the word "remember" in some form, because yes, this is indeed about prospective memory. But I will also note that, reskimming this part of the book, I don't see LaBerge actually use the word mantra to describe it. And there's another section in ETWOLD where he describes a counting exercise to help one fall sleep, comme ça: "1, I'm dreaming... 2, I'm dreaming... 3, I'm dreaming..." In this form, it's present tense, but again LaBerge doesn't call this a mantra. So anyway, I think there's some merit to the present tense thing if it really is an affirmation. Also that they should be stated in the positive, not the negative. But, maybe that particular detail might not be as important for the purpose that LaBerge describes. An affirmation is meant to create a belief. While here, we're creating a memory association. Or simply blocking out other thoughts. I'm cautious though, to avoid the word mantra because I'm not sure we all take that word to mean the same thing. As Sageous said, I'm inclined to agree that what is most important is that it is sincere and appropriately chosen for the purpose.

[Gyalogos]

I am not good in this, but I think that all meditation based incubations need a feeling. Example: In the summer you want to be on your grandmas farm. You go in a deep meditation. When you are in the silence (very rare that I reach the real trance), then you begin the incubation. Maybe you start with the mantra: It is summer, and I am on my grandmas farm. Maybe you try some easy, non agressive visualization. After a while you dont repeat the mantra and you dont try anything. You are just simply on the farm, in the summer. So heavy to explain, but you can be somewhere, or do something, without thinking about it, without seeing it. I am a dreamer, with peaks and downs (lazynes), but when I had 2-3 LD-s one week, I made some very intensive meditation-incubations, trying to be in the here and know totally (sometimes 2-3 hours meditating), and trying to feel that I am lucid dreaming. Without mantra, or visualisation (or just for the start of the incubation). I had good success with the same trick applied to mindfulness. At first I was so long in the here and know, without thinking (never letting thougts to be "alive" more than some seconds. Quite hard task) that I was getting in a euphoric feeling. I even felt the trance bodily, and my audio-visual perception of the world became beautiful clear. In this timeless intensity of silence I made the incubation. I am in a lucid dream, and I know it. Without words. Just a few times i done it, but every time, the same night, I had a lucid dream.

[mangadesuyo]

Thanks for the replies everyone! Very insightful !

[mangadesuyo]

The second form comes straight from ETWOLD, which is why it's so often repeated. The exact sentence from ETWOLD is: "The next time I'm dreaming, I'll remember I'm dreaming." And then I recall having a CD (remember those?) with a guided meditation by LaBerge and the line was: "The next time I am dreaming, I will remember to recognize that I am dreaming." I used the latter one for a long time to much success. I think it's important that the line include the word "remember" in some form, because yes, this is indeed about prospective memory. But I will also note that, reskimming this part of the book, I don't see LaBerge actually use the word mantra to describe it. And there's another section in ETWOLD where he describes a counting exercise to help one fall sleep, comme ça: "1, I'm dreaming... 2, I'm dreaming... 3, I'm dreaming..." In this form, it's present tense, but again LaBerge doesn't call this a mantra. So anyway, I think there's some merit to the present tense thing if it really is an affirmation. Also that they should be stated in the positive, not the negative. But, maybe that particular detail might not be as important for the purpose that LaBerge describes. An affirmation is meant to create a belief. While here, we're creating a memory association. Or simply blocking out other thoughts. I'm cautious though, to avoid the word mantra because I'm not sure we all take that word to mean the same thing. As Sageous said, I'm inclined to agree that what is most important is that it is sincere and appropriately chosen for the purpose. That mantra of Laberge is amazing! Had yesterday 1 lucid dream and today 2... Before I go to sleep I practice mild with repeating the mantra ""The next time I am dreaming, I will remember to recognize that I am dreaming." ", and visualizing myself become lucid with reality checks for around 5-10 min, then lastly I repeat or read the mantra from my phone, with each sentence trying to make it meaningful... then I go sleep normally... yesterday I realize I am dreaming by reality check BUT Today both of the times I just became aware that I am dreaming, no reality check no nothing I used the latter one for a long time to much success. I think it's important that the line include the word "remember" in some form, because yes, this is indeed about prospective memory. But I will also note that, reskimming this part of the book, I don't see LaBerge actually use the word mantra to describe it.

[sisyphus]

Glad to hear of your success! Keep it up and always remember the most important fundamentals: recall, make it fun, be willing to experiment, and be willing to learn from the experience.