Thread: Grasping at a fleeting glimpse without a clue

I believe lucidity is more likely to occur close to awakening, and this could be one reason why LDs so often appear unstable—because you're simply so close to waking up anyway. I've been on kind of the same journey for quite a few years: Even today, the majority of my LDs are usually only a couple of minutes long or less. Occasionally, I'll get more lucky and manage to stay in the dream longer, but not as often yet as I'd really like.

The way they end can vary. Sometimes I can feel the LD ending several moments before waking up, but other times it can pop so abruptly that I'm actually confused for a moment or two, almost feeling as if I was never asleep in the first place. Likewise, duration and stability vary. Probably some of it is just a matter of time and practice to learn how to become lucid earlier in the REM cycle when sleep is a bit deeper or to learn how to maintain just the right balance of consciousness to stay in the dream lucid but without being “awake” enough to leave sleep altogether.

It may just be due to the fact that the dream had just begun, and did not have time enough to "set." I wouldn't worry about it too much. If it happens twenty-five times in a row, then you might want to reconsider your strategy.

Probably some of it is just a matter of time and practice to learn how to become lucid earlier in the REM cycle when sleep is a bit deeper or to learn how to maintain just the right balance of consciousness

Indeed, I agree. This maintaining just the right balance of consciousness is the main issue in attempting the WILDs. Like I said the dreams only happened at all because the WILD failed (or I failed the WILD). After an hour or so I'm still laying there awake. Frustrated I roll over and crash and DILD for a couple seconds. When I go back over my notes I've been attempting my WILDs all in this 8hr area thinking it would give me more time to play with, even though I more routinely wake naturally at about 6hrs. So i'll start trying to WILD from there. It will take much more diligence because I'm definitely groggier at that point but may be a better choice in the long run. Good advice Travis E, thank you.

@ThreeCat. What do you mean by the dream "setting". Are you refering to the dream's nature in and of itself or how long it takes my consciousness to "tune in" to it.

Originally Posted by Kveldulf

Indeed, I agree. This maintaining just the right balance of consciousness is the main issue in attempting the WILDs. Like I said the dreams only happened at all because the WILD failed (or I failed the WILD). After an hour or so I'm still laying there awake. Frustrated I roll over and crash and DILD for a couple seconds. When I go back over my notes I've been attempting my WILDs all in this 8hr area thinking it would give me more time to play with, even though I more routinely wake naturally at about 6hrs. So i'll start trying to WILD from there. It will take much more diligence because I'm definitely groggier at that point but may be a better choice in the long run. Good advice Travis E, thank you.

Just a thought that occurred to me reading that; not sure if it applies, but:

If you had LDs at all, I'd say it counts regardless of whether it was from WILD or DILD. It wasn't accidental. You had an intention to have a LD, and even though you didn't make it through the WILD, that intention allowed you to still remember after losing consciousness that you wanted to recognize you were dreaming, and it worked. So I would call those WILD attempts totally worthwhile, even though they “failed”. If you continue to get LDs that way, that's probably a good technique for you to use.

People often consider WILDs as yielding more vivid/more stable/otherwise “better” dreams than DILDs. While a successful, properly-done WILD might have a little bit of an advantage, I'm not sure there's really that much of a difference over an “ordinary” DILD in the big picture. I see no reason why DILDs can't be just as good, and they often are. To me, the LD itself should be the ultimate goal, not so much whether the strategy I had in mind went exactly as I intended.

Like Travis said, even when a WILD fails it can give you an LD later on. In fact, I believe that many of the DILDs I have are a direct produce of the WILD (classic, or DEILD, or SSILD) + wbtb I do before them. After many WILD attempts I just lose awareness falling asleep only to have a DILD soon after. So I would definitely call them intentional if you did a WBTB and / or a WILD just before that sleep period.

About the duration of your DILDs - the "no time thing" is just an illusion. Sometimes as soon as I have a dild I lose my entire vision and begin to wake up, or the scene just starts to collapse and I'm waking up. Yet, if I try to salvage the situation, in at least 50% of the cases I can either get to the void and teleport from there to a new scene or to do a quick DEILD while waking up to get to a new scene (without fully waking up). However if I conclude for some reason that I have no chance, then of course I just wake up all pissed off. My opinion is that it's never too late to get back there and salvage the dream. You're much more likely to pull off even a DEILD after some lucid time, and this works even if you fully woke up already. It could be also that because several bad past experiences (of waking up too fast) you now expect it to happen again and thus it actually happens - so try to have positive expectations and take control of what's happening... Finally, like ThreeCat said everyone has at least some of these too short of lucids... Maybe 20% of my monthly lucids are like that (and many more are just a couple of minutes long), so it shouldn't be a problem in the long term.

About WILD vs DILD in terms of LD quality - in my experience both are the same. Both can be very awesome or very not awesome. There is no statistically significant difference in my opinion...

Travis. You are correct it is a step in the right direction. A foot in the door, really. Definitely encouraging despite any questions it has raised or frustration it caused. I'm a firm believer that whether it be pain or pleasure, good or bad, it's all part of life and learning. No such thing as a bad trip. As for counting it as a lucid dream, I cannot. My conscience would never allow it. I'll know when i've fully achieved what i've set out to do.

As for method, I'm not trying to diminish DILD in any way. The WILD just makes sense to me and in more ways than one really fits into my personality and how I go about life. An ongoing exploration of the various states and realms of consciousness. DILD feels to me more like gambling. Which method is better is certainly something I am not qualified to even have an opinion on yet.

@Spock

About the duration of your DILDs - the "no time thing" is just an illusion. Sometimes as soon as I have a dild I lose my entire vision and begin to wake up, or the scene just starts to collapse and I'm waking up. Yet, if I try to salvage the situation, in at least 50% of the cases I can either get to the void and teleport from there to a new scene or to do a quick DEILD while waking up to get to a new scene (without fully waking up). However if I conclude for some reason that I have no chance, then of course I just wake up all pissed off.

I think I get what you're saying, but I don't think we're on the same page. I definitely disagree with the first sentence. I don't see the experience you describe as being the same.

My opinion is that it's never too late to get back there and salvage the dream.

It is once I've reached a certain point of wakefulness. That's why, as we've already established, it makes sense to start from an earlier window.

As for the whole positive affirmation thing, as I've said, positive and negative are both valid. Each has something to teach. It has no power over me, because I embrace it as a brother. I do not subscribe to the notions of our modern affirmation/validation culture. Probably tmi, but I mean no offense.

The very beginning of a dream (experienced via WILD) can be unstable --easy to wake yourself up, unclear visuals, etc., especially during transition. Once you've been in the dream for a bit, less likely. In my experience.