Thread: Visual, Audio And Movement Wild

How long do you imagine the music?
I don't know when to stop imagining the music,
and to start the visual or picture thinking stage.

What exactly does the thinking in pictures stage do?
Is it possible to move straight from imagining music to
HI? (such as seeing a someone you know talk and hearing it
I do notice this stage when going to bed normally.)
It seems thats what happens to me, and I have no idea how
to work in the thinking in pictures.

And then once you see some HI picture, and or hear sound,
you move your arm like you would in real life?

Wow I can't imagine what that would feel like. I always am sure I'll move
my arm in real life.

well if you want HI to appear easily just imagine moving your hand straight when you go to sleep and just imagine music then HI will appear like your watching t.v. and if you carry on it will turn 3D and then your hand will appear in the HI and you will be in the dream.
just concentrate on pretending or imagining moving your hand when you go to sleep and you will see HI very easily and lightly imagine music.

Ahh I see, you didn't really point that out in the first posts

Ahh I see, you didn't really point that out in the first posts[/b]

yes but only found out today how to produce HI very quickly their only now need for music and movement.
p.s. when you do the movement visualization just lay in bed from the start of going to sleep and imagine that you are moving your arms and then HI will appear and just carry on with visualization of moving arm however try to make imagine hand grab HI. also forget your normal body do not concentrate on this i.e. dont relax yourself your body will relax naturally when you do this method. very improtant when HI appear just concentrate on touching it and movement which you should increase dont just abandon technique when HI appear this will make you fail it.

Hmm I tried moving my like I would in real life last night,
but whenever I see the HI, then decide to move my arm,
I get this 'woosh' feeling kinda like coming out of water,
then im too aware, and I move in real life.

Yeah that changes the whole approach. Maybe for new readers
you might consider revising the initial post.

Pardon my touble understanding your sentence structure,
but this is the way I see it:
Imagine music in the back of your head, while imagining
moving your hand forward. when HI comes, your hand will appear
in 2d, then 3d, with the progression of the HI.

thats what I get from your last post, but where does the 2nd stage come in?
Is the 2nd stage only turning off verbal thought?

With each post, you seem that your excluding stage 2 even more.

that because i have changed my idea to make it possible their is no 2nd stage you turn of verbal thought at the beginning all you have to do is imagine playing music and moving your arm. also try to only imagine not move physically it has to feel like normal movement but if you imagine moving from the beginning then theirs no problem. you have to start this straight away when going to sleep.

Ahh, thanks for clearing it up. I was getting confused between the
two different ideas.

So you imagine the music and imagine moving your arm.
The music will keep you awake until the HI is 3D and you
can move your arm in it. Correct?

And I suppose that imagining moving your arm from the start
will keep you from pulling yourself out of HI? Seems right because
I was like (without verbal thought) 'oh, Im getting HI. Ill try moving my arm.'
Then all of a sudden, no more HI. I'm guessing imagining from
the start will be like 'oh, HI. woah, theres my arm.'

lol thats weird.. thinking without words.

This time for sure!

yes that is correct eggbert however when HI comes you have to increase level of imaging of movement kind off like speed it up and really imagine grabbing HI because when HI appear it best if you have more control of movement of dream body so really imagine

Okay man, that sounds really cool. I will keep trying. Let's work this stuff out and ask an admin to make a locked stickey in the tutorial section. This stuff seems to work. I guess.

Goodnight for now though

it worked again last night i imagine when i went to bed that i was moving my hand and listening to music when them HI appeared i could physically touch it and move it around.

Okay man, that sounds really cool. I will keep trying. Let's work this stuff out and ask an admin to make a locked stickey in the tutorial section. This stuff seems to work. I guess.[/b]

i think the technique failing because of lack of imaging movement of arms when going to bed. or it could be because of imaging music poorly. you are right for waiting to ask admin to make a stickey in the tutorial section it will be good if two people could do this method reliabily because i not that good at explaining stuff clearly. im sure you will get it because this has only work good the day i first write this and today and only because yesterday i found the thing i was missing.

p.s. i had my fifth lucid dream using this technique i was imaging hannible opera song however when i passed transition HI into dream i found my self in a prison like the one in silence of the lamb but more claustrophobic it was so sad that purposly lost lucidity which i did not regain in the other dream i had. althought in the mourning i had better lucid dream.

lol good to see it actually works.
I need to find a good electronic or classical song without words, though.
I've been trying this every night since reading about it, and I'll get it eventually!
Its really hard to imagine the music, and imagine moving your arm. I usually start forgetting one or the other. It might help to get some really catchy music.
I guess ill grab an mp3 of the moonlight sonate and see how that one works.

I see how imagining moving your arm makes HI, sorta. Its like I'll imagine moving
my arm, then i'll see my arm against a black background, then a scene will appear
behind it.
What songs have worked for you?
Do you imagine moving your whole arm? or just your hand? swinging? waving? does it matter?

Hopefully i'll have more luck tonight!

Do you imagine moving your whole arm? or just your hand? swinging? waving? does it matter?[/b]

it best to imagine whole arm moving in front of you it doesnt really matter what action you do with hand it just need to be constantly moving or you will fail the technique.

What songs have worked for you?[/b]

imagining the musics is not that important then imaging movement however if you most know moonlight, vide cor meum http://stuff.ubersite.com/1139438794857940...0Cor%20Meum.mp3 and motzart K459

Its really hard to imagine the music, and imagine moving your arm. I usually start forgetting one or the other. [/b]

it may seem hard but it will get easier it just practice imaging moving body which comes easy to me because i am very good at drawing and painting and being good at chess helps to. you could practice imagining moving object before you go to sleep. it helps to do this straight when going to bed quickly lay down intill comfortable then do this and remeber dont try to relax your body or mind just go straight to the method. if you keep on imaging movement then sooner or later HI will appear which you can touch. if their time in this method your not imaging yourself moving your arms you have failed.

p.s. maybe your imaging differently from me i when mean imagine your touching something i dont mean visuallize your hand in front of you touching it i mean more of the feeling of movement you have to feel like your moving your hands e.g. touch your screen or another object i dont want you to visualize yor hand and the action it take i want it so you can actually feel the act of movement. i should have describe it better but the imaging i want is not of visualizing your arm and it moving it more of the feeling of moving your like how you would move your arm in real life you dont imagine a picture of your arm doing the action to move you just move this is what you have to try and recreate. also you dont have to picture arm or hand if you do it correctly it will come during HI.

Sorry to jump in late here...but I'm interested in what was said on page one.

You said this technique can be performed from the beginning of your nighttime sleep, not towards the end. Wouldn't this be a less-desireable phase to enter? I mean, since you are not in REM, wouldn't the vividness be less and possibilities much shorter?

Just curious about how well the "beginning" phase of sleep would work with this instead of the end.

You said this technique can be performed from the beginning of your nighttime sleep, not towards the end. Wouldn't this be a less-desireable phase to enter? I mean, since you are not in REM, wouldn't the vividness be less and possibilities much shorter?[/b]

see your going on a myth i can get the article to prove it from a medical and psychology website that you only dream in REM phase.

Just curious about how well the "beginning" phase of sleep would work with this instead of the end.[/b]

it basically the same vividness in dream is the same at night then mourning the only reason i do it at night instead of mourning is that you want the most of dreams.

I think I get the basic idea.. Just imagine, keep moving and just concentrate how it feels.
I was getting some tingling sensations in my arm last night, but I dont think I concentrated on the feeling enough.

What does being good at chess have to do with this?

although it was an abnormally hot day here and I was too hot,
which gave me trouble sleeping regularly.

I think I get the basic idea.. Just imagine, keep moving and just concentrate how it feels.
I was getting some tingling sensations in my arm last night, but I dont think I concentrated on the feeling enough.[/b]

dont pay any attension to your body this will make you fail. make sure your consciously in control of your imaginary body. if it feels like you are really moving your arms and you are consciously in control of them it will work. also you have to distance yourself from your real body by only concentrating on imaging movement of arms if you notice your real body your doing it wrong. see your real body should not exsist for you to pass into dream you have dissociated your body from dream body once you done that you natural body relaxes and goes to sleep and the HI appears where just have to feel yourself physically grab it by moving like you would do in real life.

p.s. when you get tingling sensation this is a good sign but you have to concentrate more on imaginary movement then on physical body if you do this then HI is just neer and then dream. also this happen to me two night ago if you imagine moving and feel your arm moving and forget body then it will work.

In reference to your earlier response; I didn't think REM promoting the most vivid, longest dreams was a myth...?

I understand that you CAN do it from the beginning stages of sleep, I'm just asking - if you had your choice, wouldn't the "better" experiences come from an awakening in the early hours into REM and doing this method if you possibly can?

If you can achieve vivid lengthy dreams with this method from the early initial sleep states, I'm not calling you a liar. I'd actually be much happier to have it work this way. I just thought that science has proved otherwise with the whole REM phase we all tend to know about. I thought true vivid dreams could actually only occur in this stage of sleep.

So again, mainy confused about the comparing of these two time period's dreams while using the methods described here.

I'm going to try right now on my dinner nap.

I understand that you CAN do it from the beginning stages of sleep, I'm just asking - if you had your choice, wouldn't the "better" experiences come from an awakening in the early hours into REM and doing this method if you possibly can?[/b]

it depend what you mean better all my vivid dream occur when going to sleep at night. plus the technique your describing is the lazy man method their no real advantage if just put in the same amount of effort at night and the right technique ti become lucid.

If you can achieve vivid lengthy dreams with this method from the early initial sleep states, I'm not calling you a liar. I'd actually be much happier to have it work this way. I just thought that science has proved otherwise with the whole REM phase we all tend to know about. I thought true vivid dreams could actually only occur in this stage of sleep.[/b]

no science has not proven you dont dream in NREM stages in dream their was a experiment that look for NREM brainwaves woke them up and they could remeber. their is a forgetting mechanism of your brain that if dont think it very hard to remeber something it like looking at this piece of writing you have seen it but if you dont read this you will forget well with normal memory you will. lucid dreaming comes form your front of brain and dreaming comes from back their no fuction that i know that stop you having conscious thought when dreaming.

Nice writeup! I use something similar to this technique. If anyone is having trouble with the "movement" part, try something that you have a lot of practise with. Established neural pathways make movement easier (muscle memory), and I'd be willing to bet that they make imagining movement easier too. I do a lot of martial arts so that works well for me. Playing an instrument, dancing, anything you're good at doing will be easier to imagine.

I also find that when you're imagining movement and you get to a stage that you can start to feel it, exaggerated movements help more than subtle. So, if you're imagining playing guitar and start to feel it get realer - it's probably time to start bashing it into stuff or waving it around violently =D. Stuff like slapping yourself in the face a lot works sometimes too. The more sensation you can get the better.

Anyway, hope I've been helpful

-spoon

just a question: How detailed does the HI have to be before u move toward it? I only ever see splotches of color or waves of color. should i try moving toward those? cause those start to appeare within 10 min of me wilding.

Well another failure.
I've never had a real LD so its no big surprise.

So I got in bed imagined the moonlight sonata, and moving my arm up
and down. Many times i'd start to feel tingly, and concentrate on my body.
I think this is from previously trying WILD, where concentrating on your body is the main goal. I would notice feeling tingly, then I get that odd feeling like coming out of water, and the HI's gone.

I'm not sure if this was the right thing to do, but when the HI came (not too vivid) I began to slap all the random things that I saw. I sorta felt and imagined the feeling and sound; Like there was some of that concrete/marble stuff they have on historic buildings, I gave it a slap and I was half imagining and half feeling as well as hearing the distinct sound. I then realised the HI wasn't too vivid, and I wasn't sure if I was supposed to be touching the HI yet, but then I woke up 5hrs later just then realizing I fell asleep.

Was I on the right course? Slapping the things seemed like the wrong thing to do at the time, for some odd reason.

Originally Posted by becomingagodo

it depend what you mean better all my vivid dream occur when going to sleep at night. plus the technique your describing is the lazy man method their no real advantage if just put in the same amount of effort at night and the right technique ti become lucid.

no science has not proven you dont dream in NREM stages in dream their was a experiment that look for NREM brainwaves woke them up and they could remeber. their is a forgetting mechanism of your brain that if dont think it very hard to remeber something it like looking at this piece of writing you have seen it but if you dont read this you will forget well with normal memory you will. lucid dreaming comes form your front of brain and dreaming comes from back their no fuction that i know that stop you having conscious thought when dreaming.
[/b]

Sorry to jump in again after a question but, maybe you're not understanding me completely...so I'll ask this a very simple way.

Now we know that during our REM beta wave period, longest continued dreams are realized. Correct?

And (I thought) we also knew that, even though we may not remember them completely, the stages of sleep towards the beginning permit shorter dream periods. Correct?

So in conclusion I pose my question:

If a lucid is entered in the short periods of NREM, couldn't it be assumed that the dream would have much limited length?

With this limited dream length, couldn't it also be assumed lucidity will be lost in the NREM period?

If the same method is used to enter lucidity during REM, couldn't it be assumed the lucid dream(s) will have a continuance of longer than the dreams entered during the NREM?

Again, I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just trying to gather info on a seemingly apparent descrepancy in my mind. I'd like to know the answer to this, since you are saying you do have vivid dreams in the early NREM periods. I'm still doing a lot of reading, but if you can get 30-45 minute dreams in your early NREM periods, I am dumbfounded; as this throws what I have been taught to believe around here in the garbage.

Well another failure.
I've never had a real LD so its no big surprise.

So I got in bed imagined the moonlight sonata, and moving my arm up
and down. Many times i'd start to feel tingly, and concentrate on my body.
I think this is from previously trying WILD, where concentrating on your body is the main goal. I would notice feeling tingly, then I get that odd feeling like coming out of water, and the HI's gone.

I'm not sure if this was the right thing to do, but when the HI came (not too vivid) I began to slap all the random things that I saw. I sorta felt and imagined the feeling and sound; Like there was some of that concrete/marble stuff they have on historic buildings, I gave it a slap and I was half imagining and half feeling as well as hearing the distinct sound. I then realised the HI wasn't too vivid, and I wasn't sure if I was supposed to be touching the HI yet, but then I woke up 5hrs later just then realizing I fell asleep.

Was I on the right course? Slapping the things seemed like the wrong thing to do at the time, for some odd reason.[/b]

you are on the right course however dont slap it to extreme instead try to touch it or just move your hand toward it. dont care about vividness of HI if you keep moving and touching it soon it will become realer. when HI appear just touch it straight away. try to remeber that when HI appear all you need to do is imagine the feeling of movement and then trying to touch it dont worry about vivids just imagine moving toward any object that you see.

Again, I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just trying to gather info on a seemingly apparent descrepancy in my mind. I'd like to know the answer to this, since you are saying you do have vivid dreams in the early NREM periods. I'm still doing a lot of reading, but if you can get 30-45 minute dreams in your early NREM periods, I am dumbfounded; as this throws what I have been taught to believe around here in the garbage.[/b]

dont worry but yes we do have early vivid dreams and they are continueous throught the night it just a myth like we have a subconscious mind.

So why movement, and not just feeling or slapping things?
Slapping the concrete seemed more natural, and it also has sound.

Have you tried without imagining any music at all?
I usually end up only imagining the music for like a minute.

How long do you usually imagine the music?
How long till you get HI?
I get HI within a few minutes, and asleep in about 5-10 minutes.
For my HI, usually I start with hearing something; and last night
I heard It while sitting up in bed with my eyes partially open!

I think it would be helpful to trade our sleep specs. hehe