WILD'ing Question

**09baseball92** · 08-07-2008 12:11 AM

This is my first post on this forum, and I already feel entirely overwhelmed by all the different smileys. I love using smileys on AIM, but AIM only comes with 16, so this is just amazing.

I've probably had 6 or so lucid dreams in my life, all DILD's, and I've been trying to WILD for a couple of weeks now. I've been attempting to WILD on most nights as well as some afternoons after lunch if I have nothing else to do at the moment. I've read everything there is to read (or at least I assume so) about WILD'ing that I could find on the internet, most of which mention relaxing, seeing hypnagogic imagery, feeling vibrations, then sleep paralysis, random noises, etc. First, I'd like to mention that when I attempt to WILD at night, I do not sleep for the 5-6 hours that are recommended before attempting to do so...I just try as I go to bed. Sleeping 5-6 hours and waking up would be too impractical for me, and I'd love to learn to WILD without this extra step, even though it is said to be much more difficult.

On a good night, I feel like I am able to consciously reach that border between being awake and asleep. This usually involves relaxing, drifting off a bit with my thoughts while retaining some awareness, which often leads to cold-ish vibrations throughout my body. When these vibrations occur long and frequently enough, my hands and feet become numb to the point that I can't feel them...However, I can move them, and I am sure I have never experienced sleep paralysis when attempting to WILD. Even if I'm getting these vibrations multiple times, it only further helps to numb my hands and feet, but definitely are not the vibrations of sleep paralysis itself. Nonetheless, I can eventually get to the stage where I momentarily hear random voices, and sometimes, I feel that light-headed, spinning around sensation. Between the voices and the spinning, it sure seems like I'm transitioning into the dream state (I've never achieved a WILD yet though), but I've never experienced sleep paralysis. So, I have a few questions...

Has anyone here achieved a WILD without going through SP? I feel like I'm capable of WILD'ing, and I also feel I've come very close, but I've never undergone SP along with any of this. I mean, if I was in fact beginning to transition into the dream state, shouldn't SP have occured by then, or was I just getting to that part of the process? Also, could the fact that I'm attempting to WILD without any previous sleep that night be affecting the onset of SP?

**AlexLou** · 08-07-2008 07:24 AM

Welcome to DV

You don't need to experience SP in order to WILD, and when you are trying to WILD you may not notice that you are in SP because you are staying still (the only real indication of SP is that you can't move). SP is a good sign, but if you don't have it, no worries.

However, your chances of WILDing at the beginning of the night are slim unless you are sleep deprived. WILDing during a nap is probably your best bet.

**09baseball92** · 08-08-2008 06:14 PM

Well, last night I was again unsuccessful trying to WILD, but something odd did happen anyway during my sleep. I was dreaming about something (I don't know exactly what), and I think I was moving in the dream in some way, then suddenly I hit my real life head against the wall and woke up.

That's exactly what sleep paralysis is supposed to prevent, right? Apparently, even though I was sleeping, I still wasn't paralyzed lol, and I hit my head on the wall beside my bed while I was still laying down

. This is the first time this has happened, so I doubt I have any disorder preventing sleep paralysis during sleep, but maybe I don't get it quite as quickly as most people...in which case you might be right about how I, personally, may not have to go through it in order to WILD.

**mini0991** · 08-08-2008 07:07 PM

Well, I'm nost sure about the SP, but I've heard of these kinds of dreams you describe. Like, you drop a glass of water in your dream and in RL, the breaking of glass somewhere wakes you up. It turns out the brain can just really work that fast.

**WolfeDreamer531** · 08-08-2008 08:04 PM

I was actually about to make a new post bout WILDing, but saw this one.

I actaully, for the first time, had a WILD last night w/o a doing WBTB?!?! It was really odd b/c it was unintended, I was just trying to go to sleep so I started breathing slow, remaining still, etc., etc. and before I knew it, I was going through SP. I just went along w/ it and was soon dreaming, about what, idk, but I do remember it happening. So if anybody WILDs w/o WBTBs frequently, I would like to know.

To baseballmk: I think that SP does come on quite faster when you've had sleep already (5 to 6 hours). And I dont think you can reach a WILD w/o going through SP (at least I never have). From what you've said, you must've been really close to reaching a WILD.

The key is to let it all just happen. When the vibrations, HI, AHs (auditory hallucinations) all start to kick in, let them do so. Dont worry abut whether or not you're paralyzed (dont move to check whether you're paralyzed or not), just remember to remain completely still and to keep taking slow, deep breaths. Eventually, you will notice w/ each breath you take, the vibrations will get more and more intense. They will continue to do so, until you feel that big rush of falling through your bed or the ceiling (in my case); thats when the SP process should be complete and you should be dreaming.

EDIT: Btw, you dont "have" to do a WILD w/ a WBTB, seeing how I did my first yesterday w/o one (as I said above), but its highly recommended. It makes it a lot easier to enter SP and you will already be in the REM stage of sleep, making your dreams much more vivid and clearer.

**mini0991** · 08-08-2008 08:30 PM

I'm going to do a WILD tomorrow morning if my usual MILD doesn't work. What's the best technique that keeps you focused yet lets you fall asleep?

**Bob Dole** · 08-08-2008 08:31 PM

A lot of what people recommend, I found, really doesn't matter. At least for me. Before, I tried everything that was recommended. I kept a dream journal, tried waking up a certain time during sleep and going back to bed, tried B6 vitamins. All that and I only got five LDs over a month. I gave up.

Recently I tried LD again. I did nothing, but auto suggestion and WILDing with no prior sleep. Somehow I was able to get seven LDs, with only a day in between some and some in a row, over two weeks. The only difference was recall was a little more difficult (I no longer record dreams) and they were all short (under ten minutes). However, I do believe with practice I will be able to reach long LDs daily with no real work other then the thirty minutes before sleep.

**WolfeDreamer531** · 08-08-2008 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by mini0991

I'm going to do a WILD tomorrow morning if my usual MILD doesn't work. What's the best technique that keeps you focused yet lets you fall asleep?

These are the steps to my WILD technique

:

1. Devote at least 2 hours (or more) to WILDing.

2. Remember your goal (where you want to go, what you want to do, etc).

3. Dismiss any other thoughts and focus only on taking slow, deep breaths.

4. Remain COMPLETELY still, no matter what.

5. Try to steer clear of straying/abstract thoughts when entering SP (random/abstract thoughts means that the logical part of your brain is falling asleep, dont let it!). (they can also cause you to enter a non-Lucid Dream which would make all this work was for nothing!)

6. Dont fight or resist SP in any way / stay relaxed and calm when it begins to happen.

7. Continue to focus only on your (slow, deep) breathing as vibrations, Hypnagogic Imagery, and auditory hallucinations become more intense from SP.

(you can focus on and/or visualize your goal once you think you've got the breathing part down packed).

8. Continue step 7 until you feel that sudden rush of falling through your bed or through the ceiling (in my case); this should mean that SP is complete, and hence you are ready to dream.

9. If you are not already in a dream scene, then spin around or rub your hands together (or both) in order to conjure up one. Doing this can also stabilize a fading/blurry dream scene.

There you have it, those are pretty much all the steps I take when Im attempting a WILD. And if it doesnt work the first time, remember that it takes time so dont give up! I know it seems like a lot, but once you've been through it many times, you will become better and better at it.

**AlexLou** · 08-09-2008 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

Well, last night I was again unsuccessful trying to WILD, but something odd did happen anyway during my sleep. I was dreaming about something (I don't know exactly what), and I think I was moving in the dream in some way, then suddenly I hit my real life head against the wall and woke up.

That's exactly what sleep paralysis is supposed to prevent, right?

This happens to me too from time to time. I'll be moving in the dream and in reality my arms mimic the motion. So apparently sometimes we're a bit less paralyzed, but it's still enough to keep us from getting up and walking around.

Originally Posted by WolfeDreamer531

So if anybody WILDs w/o WBTBs frequently, I would like to know.

I WILD regularly without WBTB. I wouldn't call it frequent; WBTB is far more reliable. Most people report that they can't WILD at the beginning of the night, but being sleep deprived makes it easier.

Originally Posted by WolfeDreamer531

1. Devote at least 2 hours (or more) to WILDing.

That is a long time. Do you stay still for the whole 2 hours?

**WolfeDreamer531** · 08-09-2008 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by AlexLou

That is a long time. Do you stay still for the whole 2 hours?

Actually, the very first time I successfully WILDed, it did take me that long (or longer) to fall back asleep, so yeah I kept still for that long; I just didnt give up on it, lol.

But now it usually takes me about 45 minutes to fall back asleep if Im lucky, that is. So I devote at least 2 hours just so I wont get anxious and worry about the time like I usually do.

Originally Posted by AlexLou

I WILD regularly without WBTB.

Yeah I didnt mean to do it yesterday but when I began to enter SP I just went along w/ it. Im going to try it again tonight.
It seemed like it wasnt very clear tho, everything was kind of blurry

How are your WILDs like w/o the WBTB?

**calicofall** · 08-09-2008 04:35 AM

Please someone tell me what WILD is!

**calicofall** · 08-09-2008 04:36 AM

Can someone please explain to me what WILD is??

**calicofall** · 08-09-2008 04:38 AM

Sorry i commented twice. Anyways I'm not good with acronyms. So I'm having trouble with understanding this. : )

**AlexLou** · 08-09-2008 04:43 AM

Here's the Acronym List

Originally Posted by WolfeDreamer531

It seemed like it wasnt very clear tho, everything was kind of blurry

How are your WILDs like w/o the WBTB?

Very clear usually. They produce, um, high-functioning lucidity.

**Tara** · 08-09-2008 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by calicofall

Sorry i commented twice. Anyways I'm not good with acronyms. So I'm having trouble with understanding this. : )

Wake-Initiated-Lucid-Dream.
Go to the tutorial section.

**WolfeDreamer531** · 08-09-2008 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by AlexLou

Very clear usually. They produce, um, high-functioning lucidity.

Ok. I thought that you didnt get dreams as clear in the non-REM stages as you do in the REM stage. I guess I didnt try too hard when it came to trying to stabilize the dream when I come to think about it.

Another thing, have you ever remained asleep the entire night after you WILDed?

**AlexLou** · 08-09-2008 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by WolfeDreamer531

Another thing, have you ever remained asleep the entire night after you WILDed?

I have no way of knowing. I'd just forget. My dream-memory only goes back about 3 hours max.

**pinacoladaxb** · 08-09-2008 07:47 AM

@WolfeDreamer531
How did to time how long it took you to fall asleep if you have to keep your eyes closed and remain perfectly still?

Also, when you feel the vibrations, does your body visibly vibrate?

And do you think I could do a WILD in a room with a parrot and 2 cats?

**WolfeDreamer531** · 08-09-2008 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by pinacoladaxb

@WolfeDreamer531
How did to time how long it took you to fall asleep if you have to keep your eyes closed and remain perfectly still?

On a good day I can get it in about 45 minutes maybe. Sometimes it takes longer, but if you practice this then you will become used to remaining perfectly still.

Originally Posted by pinacoladaxb

Also, when you feel the
vibrations, does your body visibly vibrate?

No, I dont think so. I wouldnt know for sure. But vibrations are just a sensation you experience during the onset of Sleep Paralysis.

Originally Posted by pinacoladaxb

And do you think I could do a WILD in a room with a parrot and 2 cats?

It depends on how bad you want it. The day before yesterday, I did a WILD while one of my neighbors was cutting his grass outside!

Unless you have mischievous, schizophrenic cats like I did... I wouldnt count on it.

**mini0991** · 08-09-2008 06:35 PM

All right, well this was weird. Either that or I accidentally invented a new technique.

I got up at about 4:30 AM but stayed awake until the sun started to rise. I then attempted your WILD technique. But here's the weird part: I had an LD, actually two, but I can't remember how I got them!

The deep breaths alone caused my mind to wander a lot, so I tried counting along with taking deep breaths. Somewhere between 40 and my LD I can't remember what happened. What I think happened was I got very relaxed and tired, my mind strayed, and that kind of did a DEILD or VILD.

Now, after the first LD ended, I can't remember if it ended with an FA or not. I do know that I re-entered the dream in a similar manner. The second one was one of my longer ones and it took place in a similar setting to the first one. I lost lucidity at first but then got lucid after seeing my swingset which got sold last year and is no longer there in RL.

Basically, what I think I did was use the breathing and counting to get myself very relaxed, and that half-asleep point allowed one of my wandering thoughts to become an LD.

Odd. I will try it again tomorrow morning. Thanks for it; it did get me somewhere with WILD.

**WolfeDreamer531** · 08-09-2008 08:05 PM

Well it sounds like you nailed it.

Originally Posted by WolfeDreamer531

2. Remember your goal (where you want to go, what you want to do, etc).

Originally Posted by WolfeDreamer531

(you can focus on and/or visualize your goal once you think you've got the breathing part down packed).

Visualizing your goal is what I do once I feel the onset of SP, so I guess that VILDing is apart of my WILD technique; I dont think I stressed the importance of the visualizing part of the WILD tech., so Im going to add to that above. It helps to block out the straying/abstract thoughts from taking over; that's why its very important to have a goal and, most importantly, remember it.

Originally Posted by mini0991

The deep breaths alone caused my mind to wander a lot, so I tried counting along with taking deep breaths. Somewhere between 40 and my LD I can't remember what happened. What I think happened was I got very relaxed and tired, my mind strayed, and that kind of did a DEILD or VILD.

So it seems like you entered a dream scene through one of your (abstract) thoughts. That can be a major kicker when trying to WILD sometimes; that's why its important to remember your goal and not get sidetracked by your straying thoughts.

But its good that you realized that you were dreaming immediately. Thats exactly how it was for me when I first WILDed: I began having abstracts thoughts about random things while attempting to WILD, then ended up being "in" one of those thoughts!

Out of curiosity, do you know about how long it took you to fall asleep/enter the dream scene?

(its alright if you dont, I really never know b/c forgetting the time is part of the process)

**pinacoladaxb** · 08-09-2008 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by pinacoladaxb

How did to time how long it took you to fall asleep if you have to keep your eyes closed and remain perfectly still?

Originally Posted by WolfeDreamer531

On a good day I can get it in about 45 minutes maybe. Sometimes it takes longer, but if you practice this then you will become used to remaining perfectly still.

You misunderstood me. I said "how did you time how long it took," not "how much time does it take."
In other words, how did you know how long it took you to fall asleep if you have to keep your eyes closed and remain perfectly still?

But never mind. You don't have to answer that question.

I tried WILD'ing 2 times last night. The first time I accidentally drifted into sleep. The second time I got pretty close, but my back started to hurt from the position I was laying in so I had to move.

**WolfeDreamer531** · 08-10-2008 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by pinacoladaxb

I tried WILD'ing 2 times last night. The first time I accidentally drifted into sleep. The second time I got pretty close, but my back started to hurt from the position I was laying in so I had to move.

Now a lot of times, your body will do that to you. Your body was testing to see if you were still awake. I know this sounds like BS, but its true. Think about it, had you been asleep (unconscious) then you wouldnt have reacted to the pain like you did b/c you wouldnt have been consciously able to. Thats how your body knew you were still awake (conscious), as a result, didnt proceed into SP. Why would our bodies do this? My guess is that they simply dont want us to be awake/conscious when we go to sleep. Why? Your guess is as good as mine.
Ive noticed this too when I first started WILDing. The only way I got around this was to find a position that is not the least bit awkward. What I mean by that is to keep everything straight/even pressure wise (e.g. dont lean over on one side farther than the other) or else it can cause nerve compression. If you said your back was hurting, maybe it did so b/c it wasnt completely straight. When attempting a WILD, make sure every last part of your body is as comfortable (or balanced) as possible.

If you have an injury (maybe to your back) then you have to make sure that "that" particular part of your body is COMPLETELY relaxed (w/o pressure), or else your body will exploit your sleep positioning flaws through pain or high uncomfortable levels. For example, I had a bad injury to my heal (calcaneus fracture) when I first began WILDing. So when I attempted to WILD on my back (pressure being on my heal), the pain in my heal would resurface as I neared SP and literally force me to get up and reposition myself to my side (off of my heal).

It is also usually a good thing to WILD in positions your not used to sleeping in so you wont drift off to sleep. Try getting comfortable in uncomfortable sleep positions when attempting a WILD. For example, I normally sleep on my side, so in the case of a WILD, I sleep on my back. At first, it was really uncomfortable, but now Ive kind of gotten somewhat used to it.