Thread: What Sleep Paralysis Is, and Why You Don't 'Need' It to WILD

Maybe you can get Laberge to change the terminology in the next edition of
Exploring the World Of Lucid Dreaming.

Originally Posted by moonshine

Maybe you can get Laberge to change the terminology in the next edition of
Exploring the World Of Lucid Dreaming.

Oh man.... If I were ever able to talk to him... I'm not sure I'd waste my words on sleep paralysis...! hahaha

Maybe this reference could also help:

http://www.astraldynamics.com/

I know. It is pretty well known site, but it gave me a lot of insight about what actually happens according to simple model Robert bruce developed. What i like about this model is not its spiritual context, but its simplicity. I especially like the term called deep relaxation which he uses to describe state, when it is hard to move the body at all, becouse we intentionally want it to shut down. No mention of sleep paralysis, no mention of atonia.

Actually what we want to achieve in our direct lucid dream entry is a state of total relaxation when you no longer feel your physical body, when you feel more internal than external. When you are in deep trance, and you no longer care about your physical body.

Some people name this experience as sleep paralysis. And if it works for them, its cool. Everyone at least a little experienced in terms of forum chatting asks for further explanation about what the author of the post meant if he said he was paralized, and then reacts with appropriate reply according to his experience.

If terminology makes problem, well, it would be wise just to invent new terms for what one is experiencing and then build on new set of terms in ones own research. (just internally not for communication). I have made some terms internally for myself... these are the terms i can relate to, when someone talks about this or that.

In my thought space, these terms are absolute, becouse they are linked to my experiences, in thought space of others, they have no meaning (Unless knew something about my experiences). Thats why - overtime I have accepted some terms from forums and even some dualism in these terms {Just as the one, we are discussing now, and many more} and added them to my internal dictionary, just becouse i wanted to relate to experiences of others.

Still If i am not sure about what autor of topic meant I ask him to clarify. You would be really surprised that there are not many people wanting to write down their experiences in more detail. And thats the situation we are currently in right now. People {count me in} use terms which have been born in some context and have been biased over time and even used in another context. Each participator of this forum adds to this bias with his own perspective. the only thing we can do about it is ask for further explanation or the experience behind if we want to understand more about what the actuall experience was all about. Of course over time if we find some people whose experiences we know, we can use our own terms for what we percieve and we would be more and more accurate in guessing what the other meant when writing what he wrote. IN LARGE COMMUNITY, we have to live with this bias, or create some sticky in noob section which everybody would learn as a basic communication protocoll in this forums.

I see only one resolution of this general problem which everybody could use right starting from this moment. And that would be to ask more deep questions, more questions about experience itself. Ask for clarification ... Simply ask more.

I am wondering ... isnt this what experienced members usually do?

Originally Posted by Thor

Unless we want to hopelessly confuse the discussion, let's first distinguish between REM atonia and sleep paralysis, the former being natural and the latter being a sleep disorder.

If you are in sleep paralysis, you cannot possibly know that you have it before you have tried to move and failed. If you don't report the symptom, you don't have the disorder. It would be analogous to saying "I had a horrible headache; I didn't feel any pain at all, but I just know I had it."

Ah, I beg to differ Thor.
I have the disorder Sleep Paralysis and have experienced SP an unimaginable amount of times. By unimaginable, try to think of experiencing SP at least 3 times a month (more or less) or once every other a week (again more or less) (these numbers are estimates of course, but Id say very close to the actual number) for sevens years . My first experience with SP was when I was 11; how did I know I was in SP? Simply put, I was conscious and couldn't move, that's how. Of course I didn't know about REM Atonia or SP until I was about 14. But the point is, once you've experienced SP as many times as I have, you get to the point where you don't necessarily "have" to move to know that you're in it at all. After experiencing SP on an "every-other-weekly" basis, you began to notice a pattern or a certain "feeling", if you will, of SP/REM Atonia. So to say that one has to try to move in order to know that they are in SP is incorrect. Please do not tell me that I'm incorrect because this is not coming from a scientific source, its coming from introspection.

Originally Posted by Thor

I've seen many people here on DV say things like: "be careful not to move, or you'll break SP." What kind of paralysis "breaks" when you try to move? None; it's a contradiction.

Again, more introspection.
The thing I found about SP is that when you "try" to move, most often in a state of panic, you're sending a message to your brain that you're not unconscious (or your mind isn't asleep), and hence, not supposed to be in SP, which in turn, releases the paralysis. Every time I experienced SP (besides the times that I WILD with a WBTB), I woke myself by relentlessly trying to move until I did, in fact, wake up, moments after falling back to asleep. So its not a contradiction, its the way the body works. SP is, after all, a disorder, so a paralysis is sure to be lifted once the brain becomes aware that something is out of order.

Damn, I'd induce a WILD but I'm so damn affraid of SP!

Originally Posted by blue_space87

Damn, I'd induce a WILD but I'm so damn affraid of SP!

...and I'd date Heidi Klum...but I'm just afraid to ask!

Jokes

O_O I never knew it was considered a disorder.
I think someone mentioned it to me once somewhere but I forgot until now.
Consider me afflicted, I guess XD But if its a disorder, I wonder if there's a "cure" ??
Because if I don't need it to WILD I dont want it at all. It happens too often,
& the vibrations wouldn't be so bad its just when I can't breathe (or think I cant, or have my face in the pillow while paralysed : / )

Originally Posted by Yume.no.ato

O_O I never knew it was considered a disorder.
I think someone mentioned it to me once somewhere but I forgot until now.
Consider me afflicted, I guess XD But if its a disorder, I wonder if there's a "cure" ??
Because if I don't need it to WILD I dont want it at all. It happens too often,
& the vibrations wouldn't be so bad its just when I can't breathe (or think I cant, or have my face in the pillow while paralysed : / )

From what I can gather its not neccesary. Certainly if you focus on other aspects you may not even notice it.

I once tried to WILD first thing at night. The experience of my body entering SP, when it did come, was very intense and could easily have been distressing. However, when I wild after WBTB's, I still feel the wave, but its nowhere near as overwhelming.

^ Ohhh~ I'll have to try that...
But as for the "Cure" I meant not just for when LDing,
For anytime. I get SP chronically, its pretty agitating >: (
Its usually after I wake up from already sleeping, but lately its upon trying to sleep. Bleh.

Originally Posted by Yume.no.ato

^ Ohhh~ I'll have to try that...
But as for the "Cure" I meant not just for when LDing,
For anytime. I get SP chronically, its pretty agitating >: (
Its usually after I wake up from already sleeping, but lately its upon trying to sleep. Bleh.

Sorry to hear that. Yeah I'll bet its not much fun.
I had one WILD experience which was a bit rougher than normal.
I felt a nasty presence and someone roughly touching my body.
Even though I knew it was all in my head, I was glad to get into the dream.

The only advice I could give (based on what i've read on DV) is to close your eyes and try and enter a dream.

Or if you want to break the paralysis I've read that starting with moving your fingertips helps.

Originally Posted by Yume.no.ato

^ Ohhh~ I'll have to try that...
But as for the "Cure" I meant not just for when LDing,
For anytime. I get SP chronically, its pretty agitating >: (
Its usually after I wake up from already sleeping, but lately its upon trying to sleep. Bleh.

Yeah...I have that "disorder" too. A good deal of the time I can turn it into a LD. Other times I'm just struggling to get out of it because I feel like I can't breath or move.

And shift, I'm glad you made this post to clarify things related to SP and ISP. Hopefully we'll see some other clarification throughout the site. I have suffered from ISP all of my life, and the more I think about it, the more I question my own ability to WILD....maybe my technique is total crap.