Thread: does anyone else feel this?

Originally posted by othniel
In a seemingly infinite universe there is a seemingly infinite set of possibilities.



-I forgot who said this


Now pay very close attention to the word possibility. Now think of the word probability. Probability is likely. Possibility is not likely, but nonetheless still possible. We know that magick, ghost, GOD, pychic talents, pretty much anything and everything occultic, etc... has been around for a very long time, with millions upon millions of witnesses to this, possibly billions. That makes all of it probable. Simple as that.

It seems to me that by denying this and others testimonies you are in a sense trying to exclude yourself from humanity. We are all the same. One persons beliefs are no different than yours, just in a different \"shape\" so to speak. So when you call others stupid, based on their beliefs or style of thinking, it's like calling yourself stupid.

You DO realize that what you've just said sounds like a load of bullshit, right? No offense.

No, I do not believe in the astral. I believe in lucid dreaming, of course, because for one, I've experienced it, and two, it's a proven phenomenon. Astral projection is not.

Originally posted by Wicked


You DO realize that what you've just said sounds like a load of bullshit, right? No offense.

Is that all you are going to say? You don't even explain why you think this. What a waste..

You know....I really hate subjects like this.....
Forgive me if I rehash anything thats probably been said a million times, but I'm new to the site, and with so many long winded posts since the topic started, it would have taken me ages to get here. But hell, I might as well get in on the action.

Look.....Could anyone call someone stupid for believe in alien life? Could anyone call someone stupid for NOT Believing in alien life? No on both counts.
This relates to ghosts because, no matter what a person HAS seen, or what a person Hasn't seen, or what a generation believes or doesn't believe, we, as people have a Full-Hands-On-View of about 0.00003 percent of what goes on in this great universe of ours. (Give or take a 0 )
People use the argument about aliens "But if there are aliens out there, we would have seen them by now." The same as 'if there were ghosts we would have seen them." Let me ask you..If a BMX rider took a trip to the mountains where there is no televsion, and whatnot, and told someone "Hey, I'm going to ride my bike up this ramp, do a complete backward flip, let my feet leave the pedals and spin the bottom half of the bike around 360 degrees before landing perfectly and riding straight down the ramp....
...What do you think the speculator who had never seen the gravity games would say? "You've GOT to be joking."
Now, if this BMX'er, had done this a few times, at home, and with conditions as they are (Stomach ache, bad frame of mind, bad mood) he is not able to complete the stunt in front of this witness....

...Does this mean he cannot do it?

What if they tried it over again, using the scientific process of pete-and-repeat, and this BMX'r had gotten so amped to prove this guy wrong, that his subconscious makes it IMPOSSIBLE for him to complete this while he's in the company of this spectator...

....Does this mean he Cannot do it?

No. It doesn't. And why?

Because as human beings, there are constantly variables at work that are either Unthought of, or simply Unknown. Not one, or all, of us hold the answers to the universe. And no matter what you Think you know, no matter who's ideas you believe, scientific or otherwise, you as a human have No RIGHT whatsoever, took look at another person's view on an Unprovable phenomenon as Ignorant. Thats called hypocrosy. (sp)

A Skeptic is a person who is not easily persuaded, and would like to look at all variables before blindly believing something...
A Psuedo-skeptic is a person who takes an unbelievable idea, Assumes it to be impossible, and then bashes someone who disagrees with that view for whatever reason.

My point? Something like this should Not Turn ugly, as I can see it have without even reading all the posts on this thread. For every reason why someone doesn't believe in ghosts, you will find a reason why someone does.

...Thats the way the world works, guys. Lets get on the ball.

For the people that believe in ghosts: Don't Believe - Be Open to the Possibility that they Exist.
For those that Don't believe in ghosts: There is nothing wrong with a see-it-to-believe-it attitude, but do not take scientific deduction for universal Fact.

Sure, Science can tell you humans use 10% of their brain.....
....but after countless generations of people who have been experimenting with the mind....can they tell you what the other 90% does?

Theories, like the men who make them, are fallible. Some of the most brilliant minds on this earth can be found under Different beliefs. Scientific theories are argued Every Day BY OTHER SCIENTISTS. Do Not bicker about something you cannot prove. And if you absolutely Have to bicker, keep it civil. Don't go insulting someone's intelligence by throwing words like "Ignorant" around.

Becoming agressive over a point you, yourself, have never seen First Hand Undeniable proof of, is Ignorant.

...That goes for Proof Of, or Against, the existence of ghosts, astral projection, OOBE, or whatever subject you want to argue over.

Now..on a lighter note....

It doesn't matter if you believe in ghosts, or not, but there is a free ebook I came across a while ago called "A lawyer presents a case for the afterlife" by Victor Zammit. Something all Psuedo-skeptics should at least take a look at before writing it off a 'banter.' (Which many will do without a second thought) Not saying that I blindly believe in the afterlife,cause I don't, but I'm open to the possibility that Hey......You know......It COULD exist. It takes a whooole lot of arrogance to know without a shadow of a doubt, that you've answered a question that will not be answered until you 1. Die and find out yourself, or 2. Have a supernatural encounter.

Check it out.

Me and Tsen would get along real well.

I'm a very interesting subject when it comes to believing in paranormal stuff. I've seen ghosts. Actual, full body ghosts that move around, make noises, move things, knock on doors and scare the crap out of you. Frankly it still creeps the shat out of me out thinking about all the things I've witnessed, but I still don't believe in that stuff, and I never will. Whatever; didn't happen, wasn't real, not possible. (I'm not lying)

How does that work, Death? You've witnessed things first hand, but refuse to believe even yourself because the possibility seems...."Out there?"

Originally posted by Oneironaut
How does that work, Death? You've witnessed things first hand, but refuse to believe even yourself because the possibility seems....\"Out there?\"

Pretty weird huh? No, not weird. Just a little weird. Weird huh? Am I spelling weird right? Wierd, weird, wierd, weird... whatever.

Originally posted by Oneironaut
How does that work, Death? You've witnessed things first hand, but refuse to believe even yourself because the possibility seems....\"Out there?\"

Because it doesn't fit in with everything else seems good. Our perceptions aren't as clear as crystal; optical illusions for example fool our eyes. And somebody with no idea of what caused them could easily think "wow! psyhic magic!".

Kaniaz can I ask you a question? Why do you always seek out the paranormal stuff if you don't believe? Why would you even care? Please clear this up because it seriously does not make sense....

Originally posted by othniel
Kaniaz can I ask you a question? Why do you always seek out the paranormal stuff if you don't believe? Why would you even care? Please clear this up because it seriously does not make sense....

It is likely b/c he wants to prove that they don't exist by seeking them out. I know of a lot of people like that!

We only use 10% of our brains[/b]

ARGHH! That's about as true as saying that if you die in a dream you'll die in real life.

Originally posted by Anonymous


Is that all you are going to say? You don't even explain why you think this. What a waste..

That's because what he said genuinely DOESN'T make any sense, to me at least. Let's examine it closely:

Now pay very close attention to the word possibility. Now think of the word probability. Probability is likely. Possibility is not likely, but nonetheless still possible. We know that magick, ghost, GOD, pychic talents, pretty much anything and everything occultic, etc... has been around for a very long time, with millions upon millions of witnesses to this, possibly billions. That makes all of it probable. Simple as that. [/b]

Congratulations to othniel, who has just raped the theory of Probability. It is just as probable that all those people are subscribing to something fake than to something real. The things people believe in cannot be used to gauge real life phenomena, unless you actually know what causes them to believe those particular things. Tell me, why DO you think so many people believe in God, spirits etc. etc.?

It seems to me that by denying this and others testimonies you are in a sense trying to exclude yourself from humanity. We are all the same. One persons beliefs are no different than yours, just in a different \"shape\" so to speak. So when you call others stupid, based on their beliefs or style of thinking, it's like calling yourself stupid.[/b]

This is where 90% of the "bullshit" part is located. Nobody is trying to "exclude himself from humanity" (WTF is that supposed to mean!?), some people just have the common sense to realize that popular does not equal probable, or real, or certain. There are some witnesses to extraordinary things, yet they can't provide any proof, even if theoretically the opportunity is there to provide it. There are many alleged witnesses to all kinds of things. 99% of them can be explained mundanely. The remaining 1% is either genuine or not, but probably not. So many people in history believing in those things... SURELY someone could find reliable proof for those things over thousands of years and millions of people... right?

And the second part of that quote makes no more sense than the first. It looks like a load of bullshit carefully disguised to appear as a deep philosophical pondering or something like that (a common tactic these days). Basically, he's saying that you are insulting yourself when you insult someone else, because you share the same beliefs, even though you don't Don't tell me that's not bullshit right there.

Originally posted by othniel
Kaniaz can I ask you a question?

DENIED.

I think those beliefs, such as ghosts, magick, etc, are all subjected to a very personal perception. You may try to make everything crystal-clear with amazing displays of logic & physics, but you have to consider that not everything is subject to physics or logic at all.

Certain things may include emotions, faith or any abnormality. I would agree with you 100% if everything could actuaylly be explained with logic, but you see, not even our origin can be explained logically and I guess will always be a matter of faith.

You can argue all you want wether ghosts exist or not, but some things are still a fact. For example, many people don´t even know (perhaps for their lack of involvement with the church) but exorcisms are practiced all the time to "vanquish" demons. You might say that these people are delisuional or have some psychological issue, but it´s not the case. I have a couple of friends who are catholic priests and practically shit their pants when asked to perform an exorcism. Another few have to perform them all the time.

So, next time you try to explain everything with proved laws of physics, remember that this life is just full of crazy shit that you have just not seen (yet).

Live your life being a non-believer, live it believing, live it faithless, live it full of faith, it´s always your choice.

ps: I don´t believe in ghosts. I would call them differently.

Saying that priests who perform exorcisms are scared does absolutely NIL for your argument. Now, science doesn't know everything--we all know, or should know that. We still haven't unpuzzled the human brain, but we DO know what causes emotion. Chemicals in your mind have been proven to be the source of such feelings as love, hate and happiness. Now, we don't know everything, but that doesn't mean that they aren't exempt from laws of physics and logic. Remember--we don't make the laws, we're just trying to understand the complexities found therin.

On a lighter note...

I didn't want to open any old wounds, but I found this topic too late to post anything earlier. My question is (no offense to anybody)...

How can a unicorn be pink and invisble at the same time?

Originally posted by Shining Shadow
On a lighter note...

I didn't want to open any old wounds, but I found this topic too late to post anything earlier. My question is (no offense to anybody)...

How can a unicorn be pink and invisble at the same time?

What on earth are you talking about? Unicorns aren't real!!

i think we need to stop relying so strongly on physics here. physics may make sense in a classroom, but there is so much that physics can't answer for us. so proving a point by busting out your einstein knowledge is a waste of time.

Not true. Physics answers most everything for us...at least in the field it was designed to answer for. It's based on observations from centuries of work, and it's very accurate.

It's much more plausible to use physics as your trump card than to use 'psi'. After all, at least physics has some ground rules...I don't really recall anybody giving the same explanation for psi, or for how to use it, let alone come up with some tangible 'rules' of psi. So using physics is very much acceptable as a form of proof, or at least it's much more acceptable than psi as your reason. After all, what kind of answer is just repeating "I know it 'cuz I've felt it" ?

physics definitely has its good sides don't get me wrong, but when it comes to the discussion of ghosts, dreams, etc., backing up an answer by saying it can't exist because of some physics equation isn't reasonable. there are many things that physics cannot explain, many of which are being discussed in this thread.

But if I had some pink lemonade that was invisible, would it still be pink?

What else would we base it on? Physics is the ground rules for the universe. It explains everything, or attempts to. Now, that includes ghosts and the extraterrestrial and whatever else, so we can therefore use it to disprove them, at least for the moment. Doing so is somewhat immature, however. It's better to accept that it MAY be possible, and if so, find what needs to be changed in the 'Laws of Physics' to explain why. This is how science evolves--through experimentation and observation. But most of these claims are downright ridiculous, and very seldom has physics been the subject of debate here. More often it's simply logic and the veracity of the proof. If we can find substantially truthful proof, we can move ahead, but as of yet, we've come nowhere close.

Anyway, was the lemonade pink BEFORE it became invisible, or was it pink AFTER? Deep thoughts.