Thread: Intrusion in dreams

Guide and higher self, are two different meanings to me, so basically tele, tsouiz and you needed to clearify that to me whenever you say higher self. OR maybe you 3, didn't say it specifically to me so i can understand what you guys meant.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I wasn't sufficiently clear about what I meant when I suggested your 'higher self' might be influencing the dream. I think the girl is involved also, and your thoughts about her, and your 'higher self' or something like that. A person can't draw an exclusive equivalence between any two of them. What I meant was generally compatible with what teletheise and tsouiz said.

To the extent that the girl is actively altering your dreams, I think you and your subconscious are picking up on her obnoxious thoughts and putting them in the dream. Your subconscious attitudes about her form that connection, and can remain unchanged in the back of your mind even if you haven't thought about her consciously for many years.

I hope you can pardon our attitudes here, I think an essential point of what we're saying is right, even if its not obvious and is mixed in with our own egotistical bullshit. If you want to understand it you sort of have to filter that out.

Maybe this will help decipher my posts.

This actually looks like the funny part of intruding.

Originally Posted by hathor28

Guide and higher self, are two different meanings to me, so basically tele, tsouiz and you needed to clearify that to me whenever you say higher self. OR maybe you 3, didn't say it specifically to me so i can understand what you guys meant.

Neither of the ideas "higher self" or "guide" fit very well to my personal experience, so I tend to throw such words around sloppily, using them as if they're synonyms when they're not, because I don't have any words that do fit. When I referred to 'fates' I was pointing in the same general direction. I think there is a reality which in some contexts seems to be described reasonably well by the idea "higher self", and in other contexts "guide" or muse or daemon, or God, or many other ideas. But then in other contexts none of those words are quite the right ones, something seems real which seems to partially embody characteristics of several of them.

The reason I don't think in terms of a "higher self" is mine seems to have an identity which is partially distinct from my own. It referred to itself as "higher kin" once. Its like a spirit guide, but it's not totally separate from me either. I'd call it my subconscious, but its more than just a part of myself, and its more personal, intelligent and active than what Jung called the collective unconscious. I don't call it God because that implies universality and infallibility, which it is not in relation to me. I agree it is confusing, and the way I describe it is not clear.

I meant funny version lol

Originally Posted by hathor28

This actually looks like the funny part of intruding.

Anyways, i used to read lots of spiritual books, so, "guide" would mean angel, or spiritual guide, mostly protector (for everything even dreams).
Now higher self, meant to improve your higher self through meditation, energy, etc.

Not the higher self.The self as it is.
Yourself is Projecting an aspect of you in a shape of another person.
And guide is always the self not an entity.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

Neither of the ideas "higher self" or "guide" fit very well to my personal experience, so I tend to throw such words around sloppily, using them as if they're synonyms when they're not, because I don't have any words that do fit. When I referred to 'fates' I was pointing in the same general direction. I think there is a reality which in some contexts seems to be described reasonably well by the idea "higher self", and in other contexts "guide" or muse or daemon, or God, or many other ideas. But then in other contexts none of those words are quite the right ones, something seems real which seems to partially embody characteristics of several of them.

The reason I don't think in terms of a "higher self" is mine seems to have an identity which is partially distinct from my own. It referred to itself as "higher kin" once. Its like a spirit guide, but it's not totally separate from me either. I'd call it my subconscious, but its more than just a part of myself, and its more personal, intelligent and active than what Jung called the collective unconscious. I don't call it God because that implies universality and infallibility, which it is not in relation to me. I agree it is confusing, and the way I describe it is not clear.

I wasn't arguing in any way with you i just believe that the man is confused.
And we all born and drawn in the collective which is carrying tremendous force activity and intelligence on it's core.

Man? who's the man confused???

Originally Posted by tsiouz

I wasn't arguing in any way with you i just believe that the man is confused.
And we all born and drawn in the collective which is carrying tremendous force activity and intelligence on it's core.

Ok, then why didn't you specifically say, "yourself is projecting an aspect of you in a shape of another"?. Btw i don't believe i am stalking myself and my own mind, the female isn't me, i don't usually like to piss myself off, it's actually a no-no to me because i can be a crazy female. Read my DJ for today, tell me why she is continuing this since years ago? I'm sure you don't have the answer, and i'm sure no one does, because i think this is something personal that probably no one really gets this because no one actually "listens" to their dreams. But i truly listen, and wonder about it.

Originally Posted by tsiouz

Not the higher self.The self as it is.
Yourself is Projecting an aspect of you in a shape of another person.
And guide is always the self not an entity.

All of the people we see in our dreams is a projection of ourselves.
It can be a way of behaviour that annoy you but most likely is a part of you.
It projects a way yourself is working towards others through you to make it clear to yourself.
Maybe this is the way YOU are dealing with people around you.
You gonna be suprised how many behaviour patterns we are carrying hidden from ourselves.

I agree that we project our impressions of other people in dreams, and that those impressions are strongly qualified by who we are.

But its also possible at least to some extent to perceive other people how they are. If this weren't true, people could never actually communicate or share with each other, each individual would be trapped in his own narcissistic choreographed house of mirrors forever. And if sharing is possible in waking life, it is possible in dreams, because although the supporting images are generated in a different manner, the underlying emotional and mental content is the same. The words I write align with and point to what I mean, but to understand me you have to feel and think the thought behind them. If you can do that now, then you can do it in a dream also, though in the dream you may supply much of the word and picture content yourself.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I agree that we project our impressions of other people in dreams, and that those impressions are strongly qualified by who we are.

But its also possible at least to some extent to perceive other people how they are. If this weren't true, people could never actually communicate or share with each other, each individual would be trapped in his own narcissistic choreographed house of mirrors forever. And if sharing is possible in waking life, it is possible in dreams, because although the supporting images are generated in a different manner, the underlying emotional and mental content is the same. The words I write align with and point to what I mean, but to understand me you have to feel and think the thought behind them. If you can do that now, then you can do it in a dream also, though in the dream you may supply much of the word and picture content yourself.

for a start plato book called republic (badly translated there is no word en english to describe the title) would be could for a person to see if he can truly see himself and his enviroment (story of the man trapped in the cave).
So every person is literally trapped in his own narcissistic choreographed house of mirrors.

Now don't confuse dreams with reality as least to the point we perceive her.
Yes some times if for example your sister is behaving bad to you,might see a dream where you're hitting her,
as part of the anger of a person who is repressing it may express it on a dream.
And yes could be the case that the his sister doesen't represent a state of the self nessesairly but the source of anger.
But dreams are filters.
Filters of emotions desires fears ect.
And are always coded from subconcious.

Is rare the occassion that a finesse part of the self is going to play a role in a dream.

The possibility of people sharing a dream is plain stupidity.
Lower filters of the concious are so complex that only the non concious of the person can project it.
Infact we are not even able to understand and co op with the lower layers of ourselves.

Even a psychiatrist with a stroboscopic light can give directions for a dream that is already there and only.
Even if there was a man who can hypnotize or give commands to the non-concious again who a person is going to dream or perceive that dream is completely personal.

I've read all of Plato's existent dialogues except for some parts of The Republic, but I am familiar with that allegory.

Every week I directly share information in dreams with other people. Yes its confusing to discern what's me and what's them, but a lot of it is definitely them, and information provably comes straight through from them, not from prior sensate experiences of them. That you don't believe this, on account of it being outside of your own immediate experience and understanding, is an illustration of a house of mirrors. But the trap doesn't have to be total. All you have to do is relax your thought that other people can't know stuff that contradicts what you think you know, then other things can start getting through.

Have you tried reconciliate with this person peacefully? Asking her whom she represents, why is she acting the way she is? Offer her love and acceptance? "The Gateway to Inner Self" by Robert Wagonner talks about just that - to conquer the disturbing characters with love and acceptance. It's based on the assumption, that "bad entities" are parts of ourselfs, like maybe some bad trait we have, that we for some reason don't like and thus don't want to accept as being part of us. He provides many stories, when dreamer sends love towards the "bad entity" and this entity changes into something non-threatening and in some occasions "melts" into the dreamer to form one whole character. Fighting our bad traits won't make them go away, accepting them and working on them will.

I agree with you on this but this is a fight for a male that i am sharing/telepathically dreaming with, i know why she's doing this been doing it for a very long time, I have asked who she is and she given me images and examples, it's all in the " Dream/telepathic state" DJ i wrote down, ever since that, dreams been hay-wired and controlled by her, it is all because i am share dreaming with a guy we both knew in grade 7-8. She fully pissed me off in a dream 4 years ago and til this day will never forget how pissed i was the whole day.
The thing is i cant stop him from coming in my dreams, Because it's something that isn't intruding me and my dreams, other than that she is actually disrupting everything, OR the next chain dream she comes up intruding it. She said so her self (not in dreams) but in telepathic commune that she don't want him near me and that i can't have him. ALL I KNOW is he is coming in my dreams, i am not making him to come lol it's all a kid game here that never stopped since grade7, I can't believe she still is jealous up til this day!

Originally Posted by gab

Have you tried reconciliate with this person peacefully? Asking her whom she represents, why is she acting the way she is? Offer her love and acceptance? "The Gateway to Inner Self" by Robert Wagonner talks about just that - to conquer the disturbing characters with love and acceptance. It's based on the assumption, that "bad entities" are parts of ourselfs, like maybe some bad trait we have, that we for some reason don't like and thus don't want to accept as being part of us. He provides many stories, when dreamer sends love towards the "bad entity" and this entity changes into something non-threatening and in some occasions "melts" into the dreamer to form one whole character. Fighting our bad traits won't make them go away, accepting them and working on them will.

Well i am not replying to Tsiou anymore all he thinks is that in every dream it's a projection of yourself, when not ALL dreams are, there is interpretations and meaning behind it. His beliefs are so blant. I really can't agree with him sorry. I have read many books about dreams.

Shouldn't the man you're fighting over step up and make some choices that clarify the situation? If he doesn't do that because he's a jerk, or because he's not really involved, then recognizing that should help you adjust your feelings?

Not that this is easy - I've have problematic attachments that have lasted longer than that.

He really doesn't like her either, like i do. If she can't intrude on a same dream we both are in, she can go to the next dream and control whatever. This female is spontaneous we can't just expect her.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

Shouldn't the man you're fighting over step up and make some choices that clarify the situation? If he doesn't do that because he's a jerk, or because he's not really involved, then recognizing that should help you adjust your feelings?

Not that this is easy - I've have problematic attachments that have lasted longer than that.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I've read all of Plato's existent dialogues except for some parts of The Republic, but I am familiar with that allegory.

Every week I directly share information in dreams with other people. Yes its confusing to discern what's me and what's them, but a lot of it is definitely them, and information provably comes straight through from them, not from prior sensate experiences of them. That you don't believe this, on account of it being outside of your own immediate experience and understanding, is an illustration of a house of mirrors. But the trap doesn't have to be total. All you have to do is relax your thought that other people can't know stuff that contradicts what you think you know, then other things can start getting through.

There are two directions to the subconcious.
The first is coming from the concious when the persons emotions and "watery thoughts" are getting connected with it.
The other is when archetypical patterns emerge from the collective.
And as the collective non-concious moves slowly patterns emerge from the collective to the non-concious.
Which top up to the subconcious coded as dreams.
And as we are all connected together patterns that emerge taking shape in dreams.
And this is why many people "Share" dreams.
This is how jung knew about ww2.
It is because the german collective started to throw to the surface patterns.
And now that you see today in the world a lot of events in a rapid movement
you know that the collective started slowly to move again.

And i bet that at least ten times more people are "sharing" the same or a similar dream.

blah blah blah. you're all so pretentious. kick her ass or make friends.

tsiouz....

These patterns from the unconscious take form in ways that are personal and specific to the individuals who experience them however. And any time two people have a relationship with each other, there is a interrelationship in how the wave breaks over both of them. Because of that interrelationship, one person learns or experiences something of the other, even though the medium which connects them is universal in some sense, and the pattern they are a part of us part of a much larger pattern.

Here's a connected dream experience that illustrates this, as an example I have posted before. I was thinking about Greek elements, earth, water, air, and fire, as being passive, passive-active, active-passive, and active. The 'phases' of matter, solid, liquid, and gas would have a correspondence to the first three. However, the phases are collective statistical properties, an individual molecule doesn't actually have a phase, and doesn't have kinetic energy except in relation to another molecule. The difference between a cloud of gas and several blocks of ice traveling in different directions is one of arrangement only. If so-called astral matter is said to be passive-active relative to ordinary matter, which is passive, how does that make any sense? There are not really different phases of matter even in the physical realm. Such was my thinking. That day I also encountered an image in a book of a mouse biting the talon of an owl. The mouse is a sort of spirit messenger, and the owl is the moon-like muse which stands behind it. That night my sister dreamed of a mouse biting her finger, and of it raining because of acidity being anisotropic, which didn't seem to make any sense. Her dream included a couple other related details which I'm leaving out for brevity. I didn't get my usual 'teaching' dream that night, which was highly unusual, but instead just silence and a simple musical image that fit into my sister's dream.

A point that I understood from my sister's dream was that the difference degree of "imbalance" that is said to separate astral from physical matter is more analogous to a difference in valence electrons rather than a difference in kinetic energy. This wasn't something that had occurred to me previously. It is true that many other people might have had a similar dream that same night, with rain and confusion and maybe a mouse biting a finger, and that these dreams would have been part of the same pattern that joined us. But how many would have been trying to relate Greek elements to modern physics that day, and how many would have had the understanding which was in the dream? Very few to none. Her dream specifically connected to my thoughts, irrespective of how many other people's thoughts are connected also. Similarly with a lot of other connected dream experiences.

In my mind, what you said was quite insightful, and it fits with what I described here. But the way you try to restrict what is possible in dream to the scope of your own awareness and understanding is confining and misleading. Yes there are two directions to the subconscious. But those two directions are not exclusive of other directions, so to speak.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

blah blah blah. you're all so pretentious. kick her ass or make friends.

Hi WakingNomad. I agree I'm pretentious - its a personality feature that I'm stuck with for now. Your manner of wearing ignorance as a badge of honor is pretentious also. So I guess we're in good company. In any case, thanks for your input, I think you make a good point.

Here's a question for you Hathor...Since no one can tell you whether it is real or not, why does it matter? It obviously only has specific import to you alone, so all we forum posters are doing is giving context to the drama. You dont need us...You want us...but why...and when you read that, you will immediately come up with "the answer" but the truth is there is no answer, only more questions. That is because everything is subjective when you are interacting with other objects/subjects.
If you really want to figure this thing out you need to delve into the dream. Become lucid within this dream and find the answers for yourself, no one here can help you anymore.


oh btw, Waking Nomad, word