PSI abilities, ARE THEY REAL!?!

[DopeyGuy]

Are psi abilities real or not? I mean, how come many people in this forum claim they have those "powers", but they do not prove it, and if they do have those powers, how come scientists are not putting them into their labs and start doing some testings? If psi abilities are real, i don't need any videos that show they are real because those videos can be edited. Oh yeah, if these things are real, how come they are in websites, but not the news channel on tv?

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by DopeyGuy Are psi abilities real or not? I mean, how come many people in this forum claim they have those \"powers\", but they do not prove it, and if they do have those powers, how come scientists are not putting them into their labs and start doing some testings? If psi abilities are real, i don't need any videos that show they are real because those videos can be edited. * Oh yeah, if these things are real, how come they are in websites, but not the news channel on tv? There is a huge documented history of Saints in all of the World's Higher Religions. The Catholics have had perhaps a dozen Christ-like Saints, the Jews had Elijah, the Hindus have had ... I don't want to say a dozen because I hope that the Catholics would have a supremousy there... but. The Buddhists have even had a few. The Sufis, who claim to be Muslim but actually trace back to Zoroastrianism, the First Higher Religion, have also had a great number of Saints. Oh, and by the Way, the Sufis had also mastered Dreaming more than any other group I've ever studied. many of their Libraries have gone to rot, but I hear there are still square miles of ancient texts that are only awaiting some funding so that people can be trained up in Ancient Persian Script in order to translate them over. but there have been few great saints lately. The last Big Saint was Padre Pio who died in 1968. In india today there is one Pralad Jani who was studied at the Sterling Hospital there -- he was blessed by a particular Goddess some 60 years ago -- he was worried that he would starve to death if he committed himself to her total devotion and She told him not to worry -- he has not eaten or drank anything since. The Hospital observed him long enough to affirm the probability of his Story. He makes an odd picture. Apparently in order to worship his Goddess, he took to dressing just like Her, in a Red Sari, which must have been cute some 60 years ago, but now he is an Old Man walking about in a bright red dress. But, for all I know, he is the last living Miracle Worker now on earth. My angels came and told me the World was undergoing a spiritual drought. They weren't kidding. But I was shown a great body of water -- a huge lake -- to the south and the east. Spiritual Powers will be rekindled when the Peoples of the World find that Lake of Spiritual Waters.

[Matchbook]

Pralad Jani's abilities must not have been totally confirmed. If they had been, I don't see how the whole scientific community wouldn't be buzzing over this, and the news tossing stories left and right about it. There's never been any verified proof of anyone having "supernatural" abilities.. so this would be huge. Sure you can talk about documented history, but so is the Bible, and not everyone believes in that. To physically witness something is different.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Matchbook Pralad Jani's abilities must not have been totally confirmed. If they had been, I don't see how the whole scientific community wouldn't be buzzing over this, and the news tossing stories left and right about it. There's never been any verified proof of anyone having \"supernatural\" abilities.. so this would be huge. Sure you can talk about documented history, but so is the Bible, and not everyone believes in that. To physically witness something is different. The problem with Science is its unspoken Orthodoxy. The Scientists at the Sterling Hospital thought they had an airtight Protocol for their study. But when they submitted their Results for Peer Review, the very Results they submitted were enough for the rest of the Scientific Community to distance themselves immediately. The thought was, since it is clearly impossible, the Findings MUST HAVE BEEN flawed. But the Doctor in charge of the Study would not say so. You see, Scientists for the most part are dedicated Atheists. Many are Masons, or those who want to be made head of their own departments someday are Masons, and so it is absolutely forbidden NOT to be an Atheist. To support Religion in anyway would be against their Secret Oaths. But how would some Scientist in India know about all this Western Politics? I argued for more than a year on Atheist Websites. they think of themselves as Scientifically minded, but it is clear that they suppose they already have it all figured out. They already know what is impossible, and Miracles are impossible. Psychic Phenomena is impossible. Even dreams are just random firings of neural whatevers. They don't explain MEANING because, since MEANING is not quantifiable, they simply left that out of their equations. but here, take a look at a few Web Searches: http://www.soulcounseling.com/nov2003.html

[DopeyGuy]

uhh...please, i just want an easy answer...

[nesgirl119]

Yes & No..... I do believe in LDing, playing Telephone, Guess Wizards, DSing, & S**-*****, but I am still a bit skeptical on the others.... Maybe the reason they haven't been proven is b/c Michelle & I are mean to Scientists who try to experiment on us

[Placebo]

> Leo I agree about the attitude of scientists. It seems that it would be near impossible to convince the scientific community of certain paranormal abilities Of course, their perspective is that the more improbable it is (determined from their opinion of the world), the more criticism should be thrown at it. Originally posted by DopeyGuy uhh...please, i just want an easy answer... ROFL

[Peregrinus]

Originally posted by Leo Volont You see, Scientists for the most part are dedicated Atheists. Many are Masons, or those who want to be made head of their own departments someday are Masons, and so it is absolutely forbidden NOT to be an Atheist. To support Religion in anyway would be against their Secret Oaths. Oh damn, you figured us out! It's true -- all scientists are atheists. In fact, even to be admitted into the science departments of most universities, you have to undergo a super secret initiation ritual in which you swear to the Void that you will do your utmost to destroy religion and spirituality using any and all methods at your disposal. I even had to write my oath in the Bat Cave with the blood of a kitten I'd slaughtered, but then again, that's probably just because it was a highly selective program. Can't just go letting anyone in, you know? Only the really dedicated ones are admitted into the Order of the Set of Null. To be serious, there are certain prejudices in the sciences against new ideas which go completely against the status quo, but that is to be found in every discipline. Accepted and established ideas which have been successfully utilized for generations die hard. For example, Einstein went to his grave believing that the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics was incorrect. Science is a practice of human beings, and as such, suffers from the same flaws inherent in any human pursuit. However, the methods of science were developed in order to minimize the effects of those human flaws on scientific research, and for the past 400 years these methods have helped advance our knowledge of the physical world in ways unprecedented in history. To dismiss science as a way of knowing because of some superstitious conspiracy theory is absurd.

[Kaniaz]

Leo, you may have the "sidestep the point" award. I'm so proud of you. As for that whole "scientists not listening" thing, true enough. But you don't find many groundbreaking advances in history simply being met immediately with "Okay, it goes against everything we know so far - but we'll believe that!". (Or even "we'll listen to that thing that kind of defies all those laws of psyhics we've spent years and years upon for the man in the street to say otherwise").

[Placebo]

Originally posted by Kaniaz But you don't find many groundbreaking advances in history simply being met immediately with \"Okay, it goes against everything we know so far - but we'll believe that!\". (Or even \"we'll listen to that thing that kind of defies all those laws of psyhics we've spent years and years upon for the man in the street to say otherwise\"). Of course not, I'd be happy with 'Wow, this seems to go against everything we believe, let's tell the scientific community what we found and investigate this example before jumping to an early conclusion.' As opposed to: 'It makes no sense, so someone is pulling a fast one on us. Tell them to go away'

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Placebo > Leo I agree about the attitude of scientists. It seems that it would be near impossible to convince the scientific community of certain paranormal abilities Of course, their perspective is that the more improbable it is (determined from their opinion of the world), the more criticism should be thrown at it. ROFL It's not Criticism that we are worried about. It is the outright rejection of any Submission they are AFRAID to even evaluation. You see, they are all terrified to be put on the spot. Orthodoxy is such that any Scientist's career can be ruined by doing one of three things -- supporting Extraterrestrial Space Travel, supporting a miracle or an apparition, or supporting the promotion of a Non-Mason over a Mason.

[Placebo]

Yep, that's very true. A scientist has to think very carefully before announcing a finding in an area such as paranormal abilities. His career very often is ruined. It's quite sad really..

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Placebo Yep, that's very true. A scientist has to think very carefully before announcing a finding in an area such as paranormal abilities. His career very often is ruined. It's quite sad really.. Are there a couple of parallel Posts? This is odd. Where are we? Anyway.... ....But it was Okay for those pricks to construct Nuclear Weapons, and then hand them to Politicians who would have no compunction but to destroy the World with them. God! After the Revolution takes care of the Lawyers, we will have to start on the Scientists...

[Placebo]

Originally posted by Leo Volont Are there a couple of parallel Posts? This is odd. Where are we? Yep, there's another similar thread going on at http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic....=16809&start=45 You're in there too ....But it was Okay for those pricks to construct Nuclear Weapons, and then hand them to Politicians who would have no compunction but to destroy the World with them. God! After the Revolution takes care of the Lawyers, we will have to start on the Scientists...[/b] Well, if you're referring to eg. Einstein, as I understand it he was simply naive. And not necessarily a prick.

[Kaniaz]

Einstein, as I understand it he was simply naive[/b] It's about this point I go run off the nearest cliff, which is a major inconvience to me because the nearest cliff is about 20 miles away.

[Placebo]

Originally posted by Kaniaz Einstein, as I understand it he was simply naive It's about this point I go run off the nearest cliff, which is a major inconvience to me because the nearest cliff is about 20 miles away.[/b] Are you going to explain why or just tease us ?

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Placebo Well, if you're referring to eg. Einstein, as I understand it he was simply naive. And not necessarily a prick. "Naive", that is the euphemism for 'stupid'. Even if the 'Wrong' side had won that war, affairs would have found a new normalization after no more than 150 years, but more probably things would have been little different than before in about 50. Yet the scientific community went headlong to invent a Globe Destroying Weapon. Not just Einstein, but hundreds of physicists (almost half of the American GNP went to pay for 'secret weapon's development' during the War years). And the most obvious thing about it was that no Politician could ever have imagined the possibility of a Nuclear Weapon. All the Scientists had to do was keep their mouths shut. Why is it that only Doctors must swear to "First, do no harm"?

[Kaniaz]

Originally posted by Placebo Are you going to explain why or just tease us ? Sure! (Einstein wasn't stupid).

[Placebo]

ROFL, okay, by 'naive' I meant that he honestly believed that his discoveries would not fuel the idea of such a horrible weapon in the minds of the 'powers that be' Of course, I'm not saying Einstein was stupid at all. Nevertheless, you're referring the scientific community as a whole, and the other scientists who had a hand in the actual creation of the weapons (I don't believe Einstein did?) I can't argue that scientists thought about the humanity of the issue ... they could possibly have avoided the situation [EDIT] Realistically speaking though, scientists are human, and as such there would always have been someone who would built the unthinkable

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Placebo I can't argue that scientists thought about the humanity of the issue ... they could possibly have avoided the situation Priests insist upon confidentiality. Lawyers insist upon confidentiality. doctors insist upon doing no harm. Journalists insist upon protecting their sources. So Scientists appear to be the Only Profession that PROFESSES TO HAVE NO MORAL CONSTRAINTS.

[Kaniaz]

You know, he probably did think that at some point. But what can you really do? It would be either drop an entire field of scientific discovery at the hint of something sinister on the horizon, or keep going and expect the "powers that be" to do their job properly. (ie: Not detonate whatever might happen). I don't think any scientist would be stupid for inventing something that could blow up the world. They're just putting the tools there that some other guy would only go and invent someplace else - that's just inevitable. If no scientist we know, then some guy in a remote place in china. Arguably it's probably better that every side knew what exists, because then you can get MAD ("Mututally Assured Destruction"), which means that no side is going to launch the weapon, because the other has it too, and all it would result in was death on either side. If only, say, China had the weapon, then they could blow up anything they liked at their luxury. Not a good situation. The person who really is stupid, (in my opinon) would be the one who detonated it.

[Placebo]

I seem to have sidetracked this thread - perhaps we should start another thread about whether scientists should have a moral code or oath?

[Kaniaz]

It sounds like a good idea for me. Not that i'm any good at debating things, anyway.

[Placebo]

Here we go Should scientists take an oath? Now, where was the discussion about psi though? *scratches head* [EDIT] I think we more or less ended up here, before the discussion of scientists' morals: Originally posted by Placebo+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Placebo)</div> Yep, that's very true. A scientist has to think very carefully before announcing a finding in an area such as paranormal abilities. His career very often is ruined. It's quite sad really.. [/b] <!--QuoteBegin-Leo ...But it was Okay for those pricks to construct Nuclear Weapons, and then hand them to Politicians who would have no compunction but to destroy the World with them. God! After the Revolution takes care of the Lawyers, we will have to start on the Scientists...

[Placebo]

...But it was Okay for those pricks to construct Nuclear Weapons..[/b] Sure, nobody said scientists were little angels. The problem really is that discoveries like paranormal abilities won't happen if scientists are too scared to post findings on it