Thread: Do you think the concious mind survives physical death

[quote]So what do you you believe will happen to the sychie after death?Heh, I had to look that up before realizing you meant psyche . The following are my beliefs, with the main idea of each paragraph bolded, to spare those that do not want to read it all.

I believe death is a really simple process, and not such a bad thing either. It is an end of the duality between the physical body and the non-physical, or subtle, bodies. Death is simply the permanent separation between the physical body, and that which animates it.

That begs the question, where does the physical end, and non-physical begin? Look no further than a dead corpse. The lifeless, mass is one's physical body. I think it is almost entirely worthless. It's main purpose would be no different than a ball and chain� -- to imprison us, on Earth, while we learn our lessons. Other than the loss of the physical body, afterlife carries on just the same as life.

As an added bonus, the physical body also shows signs of illness. The physical is a reflection of all the subtle bodies, and they are reflections of it. That means physical trauma, like being hit, can lead to emotional trauma. Likewise, suppressed anger may become cancer. However, the physical body tends to lag behind all others, in terms of indication of illness. That's because it vibrates slower and reflects slower. I like to contend that our dream body actually exists too. It reflects others, as can be seen with a wet dream, or when one has a bladder full and wishes to relieve themself in a dream.

Losing our physical body, we shift our consciousness to the next lowest body, in terms of how fast they vibrate. That means, we perceive information through those sensory inputs. We no longer see the physical earth we lived on, but we see it's corresponding reflection, which vibrates at the same frequency as our body. We can no longer see those we lived with, however we can be fooled by seeing their reflection. Also, it opens up telepathic abilities familiar to the other bodies.

Being on a higher level of vibration, we would be able to think of something and make it appear faster than physical life, just like when dreaming. In fact, that would be more evidence that dreams actually do take place. Most people, when they die unknowingly, wake up and think they are in a dream, until it continues permanently. When those die, they can accelerate their learning process as things happen faster.

Of course, if you are into Eastern philosophy, supposedly we actually have three consciousnesses, that correspond to the Dan Tiens, or Tan Tiens. They are our three energy centers, located at the brain, the heart, and in the gut. That would explain "gut instinct" and "listen to your heart". A scientific experiment that monitored the neural pathways showed that a type of decision is not made until it goes from the brain down the spine and into the gut. From there, the activity branched either left or right. I believe that all three types of consciousness survive into the afterlife.

Originally posted by nightshade

Sry I've got holidays and was visiting the forum a lot and all this Beyond Dreaming stuff started to bother me.
*stops being a dick* *tries to ignore all the supernatural stuff*

Thanks.

Originally posted by Stag_Boy
So many people have the misconception that we all instantly go to Heaven when we die. According to Ecclesiatstes the book of written by Samuel, In chapter 9:5, 6, and 10 it says: blah blah blah.

Dont preach! Dont you know the Bible has had thousands of years for revisions? Of course its going to say something like that. The Catholic church only put in the stuff they wanted us to read.

What about free will? Don't you think we could stay as Earth bound spirits if we want?

The problem is you people can't prove anything without saying "the Bible says..." How can you live your life acording to something MAN wrote? If God wants us to live a certain way then why dont he brings his ass down here and just tell everyone?

Originally posted by gse2006
I wonder if the concious mind survives after physical death and if you live on in something similiar to a Lucid Dream. I read that souls talking through mediums
all describe the afterlife very differently and that you are able to create things and
environments - sounds like you would have to develop some dream control.

I would be very interested to see what people thought about this.

Well, ordinarily when I am reflecting upon the qualities and abilities of the Saints, from the Catholic as well as the Sufi and Hindu-Yogic Traditions, I focus upon what they did while they were alive, but many or even most of those who record the History of Saints regard as most important the Apparitions and Miracles which come after the passing of these Saints.

Indeed, there is a relatively modern Saint, Sai Baba of Shirdi (not to be confused with that famous Phoney, Sai Baba of Puttaparti who only assumed the name of Sai Baba because it was an opportunistic theft of a well respected name) who has appeared after his Mahasamadhi, his 'death', quite a number of times. Even I have met up with him a few times in my dreams and visions (he once taught me that it is important to learn that one can fly even into the ground without being hurt by it).

Hey Leo,

In reading "The Holographic Universe," I've just been introduced to the "Jansenist Miracles." I found the content on them very intriguing and am interested in a little more information on the times and events they were allegedly involved in. Are you familiar with the Jansenists? If so, what do you think about the validity of the claims of their abilities?

Just thought I would pop by ith my thoughts...

I cannot honestly say I believe in much.. wel... I kinda believe in things liek chairs... if I didn't, then I would be sitting on something I didn't believe existed and... nevermind, I'm getting off topic!

I think logically when it comes to this, when I die, the parts of my brain that control higher thought, memory, personality etc etc DIE. When they die, my personality is gone. BUT I also believe to a certain extent that energy cannot be destroyed nor created, so the energy controlling us, has to go somewhere.

It's garbled and contradictitive yes, but that is what I think. If anyone can help clear my mind up (I have some rather messy and jumbled memories that need tidying up... maybe sell them at a Brain Boot sale...) please say!

Originally posted by sleepygamer
I think logically when it comes to this, when I die, the parts of my brain that control higher thought, memory, personality etc etc DIE. When they die, my personality is gone. BUT I also believe to a certain extent that energy cannot be destroyed nor created, so the energy controlling us, has to go somewhere.

A very BIG issue at hand in this topic relies on how one thinks that we were created, it seems.
You pointed out that matter can't be destroyed or created..to a certain extent???
It has to be one or the other.
Who created this energy from the beginning?
And what happens to the energy that encompasses our body when we are living?

Maybe your conscious mind moves into your sub-conscious, which develops its own subconscious and you each move on to a new dimension or realm. I mean, if there's no afterlife, how would you know?

Originally posted by sleepygamer

I think logically when it comes to this, when I die, the parts of my brain that control higher thought, memory, personality etc etc DIE. When they die, my personality is gone. BUT I also believe to a certain extent that energy cannot be destroyed nor created, so the energy controlling us, has to go somewhere.

dont quote me if Im wrong, becuase a lot of times I am but isn't electricity running in our brains? Isn't that the energy that makes our heart beat and our nerves function? science doesn't know everything about the conscious or even subconscious yet. but whos to say it isn't composed of energy? if it is composed of energy and energy is not destroyed, then what?

You guys should watch the movie "Waking Life".

The Buddhists believe that the mind occupies the body like a traveler in a hotel, and when the body dies, the very subtle mind travels on to take rebirth. It is thought that death is very much like falling asleep, and the intermediate state between death and rebirth (the Bardo) is like dreaming. The only difference between falling asleep and death is that the mind is no longer anchored to our present body after death.

The Buddhists (Mahayana Buddhists) divide the mind into three levels – gross, subtle, and very subtle. Gross minds are the waking minds and will cease at the death time. Subtle minds are like the dream minds, and also cease at death time. The very subtle mind (also called the continually residing mind) is what is thought to travel from life after life, and is thought to be the 'root mind' of the other levels of mind. It carries with it the karmic imprints of our actions from all our previous lives and has a big role to play in determining rebirth.

Look up the practice of Powa or Phowa if you're interested in more details, or feel free to ask me stuff (I've been studying Powa for a few years).

Here's a link to a few good books. They are presented in a fairly western style, so I don't find them too difficult to understand.

http://tharpa.com/us/books-lmdj.php

This one is a bit more technical, but describes how Buddhists classify the mind quite well.
http://tharpa.com/us/books-utm.php

Happy, happy, joy, joy!

Right would people stop offending god and other religions.
Defect yyou said that religion is stupid well religion is a way to live ones life you are being a hypercrite because you get through life saying religion is stupid but if it gets you through your life and your happy about it then you are being a hypercirte. If people are happy in what they believe and it gets them through life they should be happy. You on the other end are stupid because you think people shouldn't be happy and believe in things in dosn't get them through life.
Secondly Xanous you said god should come down here sort every thing out. This goes against free will and what we do to the planet. He gave us free will to use wisely Hence the word wisely in what i said. We have abused free will and sinned so why don't you shut up about what your saying because your contricting your self. Plus i do believe on what you said about the bible and it being written by man but still think befor you write in anger.

Now i have things out in the open and now going to comment on what the MAIN topic has said and not about god coming down to earth.

Oh plus we talk about things like this because we are curious about things what aren't in are reach and must do many things to get to it.

Well as many of you said that we are of energy. Well science has know found out that any one could have an atom of any one who has died. Meaning i could have an atom of...leonardo de vinci. But an atom holds energy as shown from an atom bomb. Still if we do have electricty in us (which we do) then it will be grounded and go to the center of the earth....ummm this might bring up the topic of hell. as being that hell is fire and energy is are sprit then maybe there is a hell.
Anyway on this topic i don't think we should say anything that the afterlife is fact or not as there is no everdince saying there is.
Ok fine bible and all that but thats just one everdice we must have more then this.


Right after being nuetraul about all this (except the god thing) i now shall talk from a christain view and mine.
In my opinuion there is an after life and i do believe that there is heaven and hell. But past these three realms(earth is one) i do believe there is a dream realm. After this realm there is many other realms that consist of many other things and they lead to many other realms but i shall comment on the four main realms.

Now as i said there is earth, heaven and hell, and the dream realm surrounding it.
From earth when we sleep and we we go to the dream realm which is the inner part of the mind but we must sleep.
Now in heaven and in the bible it is said "my farther has many rooms and there is a place ready for you"
This suggests that we have complete control over a bit of heaven (hence the room) and we can control it. As heaven has purer vibrations and links to the other realms it has a link to the dream realm. Hell on the other hand has none as we are tormented here.
This suggests that we are in fact in knd of a lucid dream as we can control the room.
In fact heaven could be the dream realm and way sometimes we get massages from god in our dreams (well the bible says that many people have had dreams and messages from god).
Hell could also be the dream world but its nightmares.
All in all i do think something like this is there but this is me not fact (hence i said. not fact).

I personally believe that death is an illusion created by man in ignorance.

beef jerky or whatever your name is i wanted to qoute something you said but i cant find it

it was something like this " if we didnt have souls we would not be living we would be mindless things walking arouns" that is completely right i believe, he is another example.....if we were not here and counsious the whole universe would not be here because no one would know it was here

If people are saying that we must have souls and a con then that mean if we didn't there wouldn't be no universe because we had no con and because there is no con nothing is nothing. If people don't get what i mean its hard to put on text and still harder to say it.
Any way if this as tru them it whould seem that humans have made the universe because of our con we then believe in things what might not have been there. For all we knew there was no earth but when man cam and had a con we created earth.
But thats completely silly as where did the Human come from if we did not no anything,
Still im a christian, i do believe in god so i know he's around doing something to make us think

i can't read all that,so i'll yust say that i strongly beleve that the mind lives on

Maybe life is your subconscious' dream and you're just waking up from it. I mean, if you die in a real dream, you wake up, right?

Originally posted by MKBurn15
I mean, if you die in a real dream, you wake up, right?

Not very often.

Originally posted by Oneironaut


Not very often.

really? or is it just that if you're about to die in a dream and you know it, your body gets excited and wakes up? I mean I've fallen into my bed a lot of times, so that's what I thought it was.

Nah, I mean I've died in my dreams plenty of times and not woken up. Usually I'll have a disembodied perspective for a few seconds and then respawn, still inside the dream, very rarely do I wake up after dying. I actually had one dream where a bunch of my friends and I were running around this chamber of rooms with different deadly things in them and figured out that after we died, we were all just respawning in the hallway between the rooms, so we made a game out of it and went exploring all these rooms and dying in all these really wild ways and respawning in the center to try a different room and a different death.

I've had amny of dreams when i've died and the dream restsrted and told me how to avoid this problem...I'm glad my sub-con tells me how
Apperently, if you have a nightmare and its to over whelming your heart stops and this is why sometimes, if the nightmare is too strong, wakes you up but it can do harm to your heart if this keeps happening due to the psychological and physical effects of nightmares.

Originally posted by Oneironaut
Nah, I mean I've died in my dreams plenty of times and not woken up. Usually I'll have a disembodied perspective for a few seconds and then respawn, still inside the dream, very rarely do I wake up after dying. I actually had one dream where a bunch of my friends and I were running around this chamber of rooms with different deadly things in them and figured out that after we died, we were all just respawning in the hallway between the rooms, so we made a game out of it and went exploring all these rooms and dying in all these really wild ways and respawning in the center to try a different room and a different death.

That's like Halo! Did you have a dream about being in Halo! But yeah, I think that my mind isn't used to ...dying and not actually dying. This normally happens when I'm in a shallow sleep, so maybe my body isn't in SP yet.