My Problem with the "Beyond Dreaming" Forum

[Ryden]

Although I don't visit this site as much as I used to, I do come back to browse the beyond dreaming section, as I find it interesting. Yet, it seems every thread that is started for specific discussion on a topic just ends up becoming a debate over whether the phenomenon exists or not. This is not the purpose of this section, as is stated in the sticky: 'Beyond Dreaming' was not created for debate, but rather, it exists for members who believe in the sort of topics that fit into its scope (such as OBEs, dream precognition, astral projection, etc.) to have peaceful discussions amongst themselves. [/b] Debate is fine, but only apropriate when it was the origional goal of the thread starter. If not, then dissenting views can be put in a new thread, created specifically for debate. Hopefully if people can have a little respect then discussions can make it past fledgeling stages without being shot down and trampled. -Alex W.

[purple raevyn]

well put. it gets so old. people who dont believe in OBE for instance, can debate all day with people who do believe, and by sunset, no one's gonna think any differently. so why do people who dont believe insist on coming into this section and trying to impose their lack of belief on those of us who do believe. to me, it smacks of arrogance. just cuz you believe something doesnt automatically make you right. hell, maybe none of this real, and we just cease to exist when we die. but many of us believe in stuff like OBE, ghosts, and reincarnation, and this is where we come to discuss those things, and we shouldnt have to fear being persecuted or having our topics become fruitless debates. so, if you dont believe, then just stay outta this particular forum. we get the idea. some of you dont believe. instead of reiterating that over and over, just stay out, and our guess will be as good as anyone's that whoever doesnt come in here must not believe, case closed.

[Yatahaze]

I neither respect nor accept the discussion of those 'phenomena'. It's ignorant and misled people like you who increase the suffering in this world, keep mankind from evolving and put us back into the middle ages. It's not that I don't accept it if people say "There is no god" or "There is a god". That's fine for them unless they get pissy over their beliefs like those radical shitheads. But if you say 'Yeah, there are ghosts", Telekinesis is possible" or "OBEs do exist" then you are making a statement about the world and this is what concerns me. You guys are really really keeping a basis level of intelligence out of ANY discussion here. "God does exist" is nothing to be discussed, it's a subjective belief. But "Telekinesis is possible" is a statement that is either valid or invalid and it doesn't have a subjective meaning or value like a religious statement could have. It's a statement that doesn't make any sense and that degrades what great thinkers of all cultures have worked for. With that statement, people are only fooling themselves and it's terrible how there is even room for this. So your life isn't all that magical after all, big deal, get over it and do something clever instead of jumping on some hippie-train with all kind of bogus stuff on it.

[Krista]

That right there is exactely what Ryden's talking about. Don't argue about it if you don't believe. Period, end of story. It's not like anyone's forcing their beliefs on you or anything...this forum is for peaceful discussion, not arguing over whether or not it's real.

[Yatahaze]

It's not that I don't believe, it's that I know and everyone knows except for a bunch of freaks who simply mix up statements about the world and subjective statements with no relevance other than an emotional one. It's not that I don't have anything better to do than participate in endless debates because my viewpoint is oh-so-important to me and I need to spread it and change everyone's mind. It's that you sick little fucks are making this world a TERRIBLE place and you make me THROW UP, thank you. Amen.

[Jess]

Originally posted by Yatahaze+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Yatahaze)</div> It's not that I don't have anything better to do than participate in endless debates because my viewpoint is oh-so-important to me and I need to spread it and change everyone's mind.[/b] Oh really. I challenge you not to reply to this <!--QuoteBegin-Yatahaze you sick little fuck .

[Burns]

Good post, Ryden - you're right. The Beyond Dreaming forum is for the discussion of these phenomena, not to argue if it exists or not. I can honestly say that I don't buy into all of it either, but that doesn't mean it can't, or doesn't exist. And this forum is not the place to argue about it. Yatahaze, I suggest you keep your nose out of the BD forum unless you can positively contribute to a post without debating it and calling people names.

[juroara]

Originally posted by Yatahaze But if you say 'Yeah, there are ghosts", Telekinesis is possible" or "OBEs do exist" then you are making a statement about the world and this is what concerns me. You guys are really really keeping a basis level of intelligence out of ANY discussion here. do you know why soooooooooooo many people believe in ghosts? becuase soooooo many people experience them. dont rule out a possibility just becuase you havent experienced it for yourself

[nina]

Originally posted by Yatahaze It's not that I don't believe, it's that I know and everyone knows except for a bunch of freaks who simply mix up statements about the world and subjective statements with no relevance other than an emotional one......It's that you sick little fucks are making this world a TERRIBLE place and you make me THROW UP, thank you. Amen. I suggest you stay out of the Beyond Dreaming forum...and I also suggest that you tread lightly. You are walking on very thin ice. We do not tolerate harassment of our members here on this forum. As Ryden as illustrated...The Beyond Dreaming forum is not a debate forum. I shall suggest that this thread be locked.

[Yatahaze]

Originally posted by juroara do you know why soooooooooooo many people believe in ghosts? becuase soooooo many people experience them. dont rule out a possibility just becuase you havent experienced it for yourself So I haven't seen a ghost. Send me a case of evidence that proves their existence and I will gladly accept it. Who saw the ghost when, who can verify it; what did the ghost do what hasn't been done by anything else?

[Cyclic13]

Yatahaze, No offense man, but I hope you know you are in the beyond dreaming part of a lucid dreaming website forum. Of course seemingly, off-the-wall claims will be made. If you don't want to hear them because they 'make you sick' then the solution is simple- leave, or go to another 'less offensive' site. It's plain as day, someone shouldn't have to point it out- either, you feel slighted in some stupid way because people's views differ from your own, in which case you are closeminded (see both my avatar quote and signature quotes), or you just like to argue... Neither of which is becoming to this site or discussions of any kind. I'm not sure about a great many things but there is one thing that is for certain- whether you like it or not, your time here at dream views won't last too long with an attitude and behavior like that. Why not try reading a tutorial on lucid dreaming or meditation and come back after you've relaxed or experienced something beyond dreaming?... You have only been a member, what? one day?

[Yatahaze]

It's not because of some personal experience that I'm missing out on that I hold this forum in contempt. I've had (so called) OBEs, ludic dreams, I meditate. It's not about that. This forum doesn't deserve to exist because it's quite essentially the same as the other ones, except it has a lot of bogus information and talking attached to it. What's the point? It's shit like this that ACTUALLY make it extremely HARD to get public and social acceptance for practices of the mind like meditation, lucid dreaming and exploring the various possibilities that they bring with them. Why do people have to be so angsty about how limited their mind might be in relation to some objective, real world when it enables them to experience GREAT things. It's INSANITY! So a dream isn't actually happening in the real world, so you can't predict the future only because it "feels" like you do, so you can't show off to your friends how you move a pencil with your mind; Who cares? If THAT'S what's important to you, then you're a stupid bitch and you deserve to get bitch-slapped.

[Howie]

Originally posted by Yatahaze It's not because of some personal experience that I'm missing out on that I hold this forum in contempt. I've had (so called) OBEs, ludic dreams, I meditate. It's not about that. This forum doesn't deserve to exist because it's quite essentially the same as the other ones, except it has a lot of bogus information and talking attached to it. What's the point? It's shit like this that ACTUALLY make it extremely HARD to get public and social acceptance for practices of the mind like meditation, lucid dreaming and exploring the various possibilities that they bring with them. Why do people have to be so angsty about how limited their mind might be in relation to some objective, real world when it enables them to experience GREAT things. It's INSANITY! So a dream isn't actually happening in the real world, so you can't predict the future only because it "feels" like you do, so you can't show off to your friends how you move a pencil with your mind; Who cares? If THAT'S what's important to you, then you're a stupid bitch and you deserve to get bitch-slapped. If your convictions are so adamant & against the paranormal and pseudosciences, then why work yourself up? Don't post! Unless you have an argument of sustenance rather than crudeness, which by the the way.. only makes evident your narrow pattern of thought. Which would make this forum an obvious place for you not to post. In addition you agitate other forum members who discuss these issues in great detail. Then I suggest you reply in a kind thoughtful manner. Now that's an idea

[Howie]

Originally posted by Ryden Although I don't visit this site as much as I used to, I do come back to browse the beyond dreaming section, as I find it interesting. Yet, it seems every thread that is started for specific discussion on a topic just ends up becoming a debate over whether the phenomenon exists or not. This is not the purpose of this section, as is stated in the sticky: 'Beyond Dreaming' was not created for debate, but rather, it exists for members who believe in the sort of topics that fit into its scope (such as OBEs, dream precognition, astral projection, etc.) to have peaceful discussions amongst themselves. Debate is fine, but only apropriate when it was the origional goal of the thread starter. If not, then dissenting views can be put in a new thread, created specifically for debate. Hopefully if people can have a little respect then discussions can make it past fledgeling stages without being shot down and trampled. -Alex W.[/b] I must agree with you to some degree. The problem....Hundreds of different views, opinions, beliefs and ideas. I to get aggravated trying to make a point and see it go astray as they often do. Ignore the response or rebuke it. Don't get muddle up in a segment of the conversation that you, the author feels that it is not on the issue that you are trying to address.

[Jess]

Ahahahaa you failed.... Originally posted by Yatahaze+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Yatahaze)</div> It's not because of some personal experience that I'm missing out on that I hold this forum in contempt. I've had (so called) OBEs, ludic dreams, I meditate.[/b] Uh-huh. Originally posted by Yatahaze+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Yatahaze)</div> It's not about that. This forum doesn't deserve to exist[/b] Who are you to say what deserves to exist or not? Originally posted by Yatahaze because it's quite essentially the same as the other ones, except it has a lot of bogus information Such as? In any case so what. I think most people here think you're a prick, but you don't do you? I live in a democracy so, I guess that makes you a prick. Originally posted by Yatahaze and talking attached to it .....it's a forum. <!--QuoteBegin-Yatahaze@ What's the point? It's shit like this that ACTUALLY make it extremely HARD to get public and social acceptance for practices of the mind like meditation, lucid dreaming and exploring the various possibilities that they bring with them. Do you know what social acceptance means?! <!--QuoteBegin-Yatahaze Why do people have to be so angsty about how limited their mind might be in relation to some objective, real world when it enables them to experience GREAT things. It's INSANITY! So a dream isn't actually happening in the real world, so you can't predict the future only because it "feels" like you do, so you can't show off to your friends how you move a pencil with your mind; Who cares? If THAT'S what's important to you, then you're a stupid bitch and you deserve to get bitch-slapped. you've lost me here...what's important to you Yatahaze?

[Yatahaze]

"Who are you to say what deserves to exist or not? " If it makes you happy, it is in my expert opinion that this is so. "Such as?" Such as the idea that the experience of walking in what looks exactly like the real world is identical or somehow directly related to actually doing it. "I think most people here think you're a prick, but you don't do you? I live in a democracy so, I guess that makes you a prick. " It doesn't make me anything. Last time I checked democracy was about politics and chosing something, not about applying qualities to something or someone. "...it's a forum. " I meant to say that there is talking about the aforementioned informaiton. "Do you know what social acceptance means?" I'm not entirely sure. What I meant to say was that topics such as lucid dreaming, meditation and so on are still not quite as accepted in society as they deserve to be. The only thing I see is that there will be some trends coming and going like Yoga and Buddhism being in, then something else. "what's important to you Yatahaze?" Open-mindedness is not about belief. Belief is independent of the outside world and independent of cultural progress. Open-mindedness shouldn't be seen as out-of-the-world and somehow 'special'. It should be merged with some sort of scientific method; I agree that scienc might not be as open to unusual ideas as one could wish they should be, similarly beliving in the correctness of their own theories rather than questioning them in the hope of further cultural progress. Certainly, it's not going to help if the same stance is kept on the other side, the 'paranormal'.

[Jess]

Sorry for hijacking your thread Ryden. I don't like seeing an innocent person attacked without provocation. That's why I was having a go at you Yatahaze. Most people aren't masochists and don't enjoy it. I respect your opinions, whatever they are because you have your own reasons for them, whatever they may be. I don't respect your behaviour. Fair enough you think what someone's saying is bullshit. There's no need to be rude and insult them at the same time preaching your version of the truth. Teach them by example if you think you're so right and they're so wrong. Then they might just convert and believe your version if you're persuasive enough! But they sure as hell won't if you swear at them. Do you know what I mean?

[Ryden]

Case in point: This thread Who'd have guessed it would point out a problem AND provide a perfect demonstration of it too?

[Jess]

Genius. Seeing as it's off-topic already...where are you from in Canada? My mum's family live around British Columbia, she grew up in Revelstoke.

[Seeker]

Almost time to lock this one. Yatahaze, why the extreme reaction to this? Like you, I am VERY skeptical about such phenominon, however, I admit that the possibility for such exists. Please remember, polite replies foster open and honest debate on such topics. Coming across in such a forceful and hostile manner only increases anger and will kill a thread like this very quickly.