Thread: Skeptics Vs. Believers: Choose your Side

I think religion has been twisted like a bad version of the telephone game, but there is still something worth knowing buried in it somewhere.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

I think religion has been twisted like a bad version of the telephone game, but there is still something worth knowing buried in it somewhere.

Nice!

I'm a skeptic, but I'm very interested in exposing those who lie, and finding out who they really are inside.

This goes to all those things like OBEing, shared dreaming, psionics (or whatever their called) and many other things, why people would lie and make a community of liers (like psipog) intrests me, and sickens me because as humens we are sopposed to work together as a race, and some of the people who sopposivly lie and have done that stuff before act with a high amount of intellect and friendliness, so yeah I can't believe people arn't interested in overcoming these types of people to reather there real or not, and what they are like for real behind their masks.

Originally Posted by LucidDreamGod

I'm a skeptic, but I'm very interested in exposing those who lie, and finding out who they really are inside.

This goes to all those things like OBEing, shared dreaming, psionics (or whatever their called) and many other things, why people would lie and make a community of liers (like psipog) intrests me, and sickens me because as humens we are sopposed to work together as a race, and some of the people who sopposivly lie and have done that stuff before act with a high amount of intellect and friendliness, so yeah I can't believe people arn't interested in overcoming these types of people to reather there real or not, and what they are like for real behind their masks.

Take a look at the topic "Consciousness shift - 2012 or not" under the Philosophy thread. Right now there is a really good discussion going on between skeptics and believers, I think you would find it interesting.

Originally Posted by Soul_Sleeper

Sup,

im a Skeptic all the way, if something has no scientific evidence to support it. with REAL controlled studies to back it up.
It is not real

absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Definitely skeptical of OBE's and related experiences. However, I'm not one to definitively say that they are false...rather that they haven't happened to me yet.

Originally Posted by LucidDreamGod

I'm a skeptic, but I'm very interested in exposing those who lie, and finding out who they really are inside.

This goes to all those things like OBEing, shared dreaming, psionics (or whatever their called) and many other things, why people would lie and make a community of liers (like psipog) intrests me, and sickens me because as humens we are sopposed to work together as a race, and some of the people who sopposivly lie and have done that stuff before act with a high amount of intellect and friendliness, so yeah I can't believe people arn't interested in overcoming these types of people to reather there real or not, and what they are like for real behind their masks.

jesus man, not only you deny those things you just mentioned, but you also dare to call them liars.

I mean, who are you, to know what is true and what is false, and to call liars the ones who don't share what you think?

LucidDreamGod, yeah sure all "19,192 of the old members, 3,902 newsletter participants, 2,723 forum posters, and 1,883 chatters." from psipog.net are definately lying/delusional, that would be very logical! NOT

I've had a bunch of genuine experiences and I'm convinced psi-abilities are real. Check out: www.youtube.com/bohmana. I have a few telekinesis videos there.

guys, I don't think I stated that in the way I was aiming for, I was saying it in a what if manner, because all these things seem so unbeleivable to me, I didn't automaticly assume those things

Originally Posted by BohmaN

LucidDreamGod, yeah sure all "19,192 of the old members, 3,902 newsletter participants, 2,723 forum posters, and 1,883 chatters." from psipog.net are definately lying/delusional, that would be very logical! NOT

And yet not one of them has been able to scientifically substantiate their claims. It's not unreasonable to see this and have some suspicions, especially since so many people claim to have the ability. If it were only a handful of people who had the skill, then that would be a different story. But since subjects seem to be bountiful, I see no good reason behind the deficit of scientific evidence.

Yeah one of my points exactly, if I had some of those skills you would bet I'd be getting alot of peoples attention with them, such as go to a place with a camera guy and make stuff float infront of the camera.

Tell me a good way to prove this scientifically. Randi you can forget about. In 2007 he added a few rules that say now not everybody can apply for the challenge, but only those who has made a public appearence and is supported by a professor of some sort (I think). Hmmmm, I wonder why he added those rules. Explanation: He want's to be able to control the challenge even more and assure that it's impossible to win.

Originally Posted by BohmaN

Tell me a good way to prove this scientifically. Randi you can forget about. In 2007 he added a few rules that say now not everybody can apply for the challenge, but only those who has made a public appearence and is supported by a professor of some sort (I think). Hmmmm, I wonder why he added those rules. Explanation: He want's to be able to control the challenge even more and assure that it's impossible to win.

Randi can't be blamed for single-handedly "oppressing" the all of the world's psions with his contest, even if it were impossible to win. He is only one man amoungst hundreds of thousands of researchers who would kill to be able to make this sort of break through.

And it's very simple to prove it scientifically, at least when it comes to telekinesis (or any other psionic ability which is observable). All you have to do is put controls on the variables, like any other run-of-the-mill experiment. Did you want me to give an example?

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Been watching this forum and sitting on the fence as to which side to join?

I'd have an easier time answering you if you told us what the heck you're referring to. Are you talking about skepticism with regards to lucid dreaming, religion, what?

I approach many things in life with a certain amount of skepticism. You'd have to be a fool to blindly believe everything you hear. The body of factual information is what determines the appropriate level of skepticism one should approach any situation with.

But again, what the heck are you talking about? That would help me give a less generalised answer.

Not even Nigel Kulaginas efforts weren't convincing enough, appearently. The scientists just said something like this: "It's too low scale and can not be measured correctly and thus isn't scientifically acceptable." I don't like that science needs 100% solid proof on everything. Isn't 99% enough? Obviously that last 1% is enough for the skeptics to deny all demonstrations of telekinesis and continue living in their square close minded world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWeEXkTk0DY

You mean Nina Kulagina? Never mind the glaringly obvious problems with that video (lol). Doesn't it seem odd to you that the only "scientifically" documented case of telekinesis was back in 70's by the USSR, which happened to be right in the middle of our "psi race" with Russia (project "Stargate" anyone)?

Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this woman was legit, why aren't there numerous cases just like Nina by now? Why is she the only one (aside from the obvious motivation that the USSR had to falsify the information)? TK videos on youtube are a dime a dozen. Apparently there are plenty of people to pick from, you think that by now PSI would be well documented by the scientific community (and not limited to ONE case of shady "experiments" by the USSR ).

At the very least, even if telekinesis couldn't be measured, there should still be countless experiments documenting this inexplicable phenomenon anyway. But there isn’t. And since TK is about moving mass with one's mind, there is no reason why that "mass-moving force" couldn't be measured with sensitive equipment. After all, if TK is strong enough to be seen by the naked eye, then in its hardy "too low of a scale to be measured correctly" by science, even in the 1970’s. That’s flat out BS, and especially nowadays. Our technology is more than sophisticated enough to accomplish such a basic task. Take an erg for example. Its has been refered to as "mosquito power", like horse power, but in a MUCH smaller scale.

Maybe that’s why you don’t see any “Nina’s” nowadays…

Skeptic all the way. Hardcore some may say.

Originally Posted by BohmaN

Not even Nigel Kulaginas efforts weren't convincing enough, appearently. The scientists just said something like this: "It's too low scale and can not be measured correctly and thus isn't scientifically acceptable." I don't like that science needs 100% solid proof on everything. Isn't 99% enough? Obviously that last 1% is enough for the skeptics to deny all demonstrations of telekinesis and continue living in their square close minded world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWeEXkTk0DY

Oh my f*cking god. Do you know how many magicians I've seen pull that same sh!t off, and better? That's nothing more than magic tricks.

You talk about "all the demonstrations of telekinesis". Uh, riiiiiiight. I've got news for you. News, that is, which should be so glaringly obvious that for me to have to point it out is so ridiculously absurd that I might as well be telling you that the sun is a far away.

There have been NO legitimate demonstrations of telekinesis powers: EVER. If it was so possible and there are people who can GENUINELY do it then it wouldn't be considered science fiction: it'd be science fact.

'nuff said.

I'm skeptic, for sure. But I am still afraid of the boogey man in my closet...he comes out at night and does things.

I'm skeptic, but I don't understand why anyone would be lying. So until someone shows me or I show myself, I'll think "nothing" of it. I'm not going to claim that something doesn't exist until I see it or don't see it. Isn't Peebrain from Psipog a member here? I think he was the maker of it or something...

Im not saying that im sure it isn't real, just that it's highly suspect.

Yes Peebrain was the maker of Psipog.

First of all: it's very hard to become as good as Nina Kulagina was, therefore she's probably the only one who has been able to demonstrate telekinesis to such a high level. I myself can do very small scale telekinesis. I'm 100% sure I'm not delusional and I'm definately not lying. Whatever it is that makes the object move I'm not sure about, but it's definately some unexplored area of science. I think it will be accepted in the future.

Oneironaught, first of all, does she look like a magician who want's us to believe she's doing it for real? Hardly. Then why claim she's a magician? Answer: FEAR. You are afraid of things you can't comprehend, the unknown. Face fact telekinesis and a bunch of other psychic skills are very real. You are too close minded to see the truth.

Every time I read a post from a skeptic I can't keep myself from laughing. Poor cynical hard core skeptics don't allow much progress in this world... For about 100 years ago radio waves belonged to the paranormal too, remember? Acupuncture also for about 30 years ago. Now things have changed, and I believe telekinesis and other psychic abilities with meet the same fate.

Tk isn't new, and we have had the technology to study it for quite some time now. What makes you think things are going to change in the future?

Or better yet, why is it that psions are so annoyed that people do not take them seriously (especially the scientific community), yet they refuse to take serious measures by adhering to scientific standards and protocols? What are they waiting for? From what I have seen, even if these people aren't as good as Nina *coughobvioustricktablecough*, there are still countless people who seem to be more than proficient enough to demonstrate that they can move something with their mind. All a psion would have to do is do what they do, but instead of doing it in their home, they do it in a lab. Bada Bing, bada boom.

The fact is that there is no good excuse for why this hasn't happened yet.

i am a believer....even though i dont have tons of facts to back it up....i believe non the less....i dont care what skeptics try to say to disprove it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iHku...elated&search= .....