Thread: pentagram?

Originally Posted by Maeni

You're talking very casually about it.

"oh, the devil just gave me a pentagram, plz dreamviews tell me wat this is lol"

I'd be afraid if the devil had placed stuff in my home...
And anyways, call the police or something, somebody has been inside your home and planted things without your accept, maybe they can find out.

I'm certain they can give you better answers than DreamViews.

OR, it's been there all the time.

lulz, I burned the mofo.
Don't need help anymore .

Originally Posted by deepsleep

lulz, I burned the mofo.
Don't need help anymore .

That's what you think! Clearly it belonged to your parents, who are satan worshipers. Which makes you some sort of demon spawn child of satan. The Vatican will be arriving shortly to give you an exorcism.

Originally Posted by deepsleep

lulz, I burned the mofo.
Don't need help anymore .

What a waste.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

That's what you think! Clearly it belonged to your parents, who are satan worshipers. Which makes you some sort of demon spawn child of satan. The Vatican will be arriving shortly to give you an exorcism.

OH DEAR!

I can't believe there are people in the world that get afraid by pieces of cloth...

Not just pieces of cloth ... piees of cloth that appear outta no where,

I think I'd rather try to find out where that cloth came from, instead of just burning it and expecting everything to be fine.

well i think it is sumerian, like from the necronomicon.you know what i mean?

I thought it some sort of felt ritual placement paraphenalia.

I guess it threw you to see it on the floor. So what was the first feeling you felt as you saw it? eg. panic, happiness, confusion, mind shifting in elation to horror etc.

I just sent him a private message with the devil tarot card.
He can't avoid the devil it shall get him..












Ha.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

I just sent him a private message with the devil tarot card.
He can't avoid the devil it shall get him..




Ha.

Idiot

Originally Posted by MasterZodiac

well i think it is sumerian, like from the necronomicon.you know what i mean?

No its not - its not even very "occult". Its most likely a decorative wall hanging or possibly an alter cloth.

If the circle were betweem 6-9 feet then it might have been used as "a circle of the art". Which is used for the evocation of entities (demons/spirits/elementals/etc). These circles tend to be very elaborate (which yours was not at all).

Here is the one from he famous "Heptameron" Grimoire :

http://www.satansheaven.com/circle.gif

Here is another from the most famous of all - the Goetia:

http://www.hauntedamericatours.com/m...all_The_De.jpg

BTW = the demon/spirit appears OUTSIDE the circle. The circle is for protection. So you actually burnt the thing that keeps you safe......

Becaause of its highly simplistic nature my guess is that it may have belonged to a Wiccan/Neopagan/Witch - but its not something of the high occult.

The design is a simple rendering of the "great work". The pentagram which represents man/woman - the microcosm - in control of and in balance of his/her self by the mastery of the four elements (fire, air, earth and water are represented by the bottom for points - the spirit/mind is the top most point). The planetary glyphs represent the 6 points of the hexagram - the macrocosm - the everything that is not/beyond self. The pentagram within the hexagram therefore represents the mind in balance and in control of the ego, while at the center of and in balance with its universe.

As a practicing occultist please let me reassure you that this did not just "appear" - thats just silly. The occult is not about harry potter type happenings - its about tancendance - a more modern term is "psychonaut". Therefore someone either found it, perhaps it was left by the previous occupant, and left it out where you found it. OR as previously stated - someone you live with is a closet wiccan/neopagan/witch.

Go neopagans!

Black then white are all I see in my infancy.
Red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me.
Lets me see there is so much more and
Beckons me to look thru to these infinite possibilities.
As below, so above and beyond, I imagine
Drawn outside the lines of reason.
Push the envelope. watch it bend.

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition leaving opportunities behind.
Feed my will to feel this moment urging me to cross the line.
Reaching out to embrace the random.
Reaching out to embrace whatever may come.

I embrace my desire to
I embrace my desire to
Feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow
To feel inspired to fathom the power, to witness the beauty,
To bathe in the fountain,
To swing on the spiral
To swing on the spiral
To swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human.

Spiral out.

yo evildocter, i did more research and i guess you are right, but you do see where i get my assumptions right? and besides i practice occult in my own home so i am not totally blind to this subject.

Originally Posted by MasterZodiac

yo evildocter, i did more research and i guess you are right, but you do see where i get my assumptions right? and besides i practice occult in my own home so i am not totally blind to this subject.

Yes - I see where you got your assumptions.

I dont have a copy of the Simon Necronomicon - its not a system I work with. I know it is a completly self contained system with its own rituals, seals, sigils, mythology, etc.

Beacause of the ongoing controversy around its authenticity I have tended to steer clear. Prefering to work more with the enochian system and A.'.A.'. curriculum. But I know some claim great results.

thank you for understanding evildocter.

that's weird.

Pentagram like that is just a symbol but it depends what do use it for. Usually inverted pentagram with circles and zodiac symbols around are used for magick rituals. Mostly black magick. However, i don't think that can hurt you. I doubt that this thing appeared just like that. Also, it's hard to draw it so perfectly....but, it's easy to buy it from an occultist shop.

Originally Posted by Shark Rider

that's weird.

Pentagram like that is just a symbol but it depends what do use it for. Usually inverted pentagram with circles and zodiac symbols around are used for magick rituals. Mostly black magick. However, i don't think that can hurt you. I doubt that this thing appeared just like that. Also, it's hard to draw it so perfectly....but, it's easy to buy it from an occultist shop.

Its not a drawing.. But it really did just appear like that. It didint fall from the ceiling or anything because it was in the middle of the floor and it couldnt have fell from the ceiling because theres nothing oit could have been hanging from or anything..

Just because the inverted pentagram is used by Satanists, doesn't mean it has to do with black magic.

Many wiccans, neopagans etc use inverted pentagrams..

My guess is that some who listened metal lived before you in this house. Or whatever. And if I was sure as you are that something like this appeared out of nowhere, I wouldnt dare burn it or go anywhere near it. Shit, I am too paranoid.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Just because the inverted pentagram is used by Satanists, doesn't mean it has to do with black magic.

Many wiccans, neopagans etc use inverted pentagrams..

Well, I said "usually". The most common using for inverted pentagrams are rituals. I didn't said that it's used ONLY for that. And by the way, black magick IS part of satanism.

Originally Posted by TempleGuard

My guess is that some who listened metal lived before you in this house. Or whatever. And if I was sure as you are that something like this appeared out of nowhere, I wouldnt dare burn it or go anywhere near it. Shit, I am too paranoid.

I listen to metal but I don't use inverted pentagrams. lol.
anyway, it's still weird

PS: burning something like that isn't always the best solution.

Originally Posted by Shark Rider

Well, I said "usually". The most common using for inverted pentagrams are rituals. I didn't said that it's used ONLY for that. And by the way, black magick IS part of satanism.
.

I know, I'm saying.. Wiccans and neopagans use inverted pentagrams all the time and it's never for black magick.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

I know, I'm saying.. Wiccans and neopagans use inverted pentagrams all the time and it's never for black magick.

Death Cell is correct.

There is always alot of hysteria - especially from Christians - around the term "black Magick" and the use of the pentagram. To many Christians The Occult = Satanism - which is ignorant and stupid.

Black, White and "grey" magick are very loose terms and mean very different things to different people. Its always dangerous to genralize.

Majick is defined as "The science and art of causing change in conformity with will". This does not mean harry potter type wand waving nonsense. Any willed act is defined as an act of magick - for example deciding to revise really hard for a test is a deliberate act of will. White magick is therefore defined as a concious act of will to better the self. Black magick is an unconsidered act usually driven by the animal self - such as pouring another drink when already very drunk without thought.

Some define White magick as an act of good - such as healing/helping someone else, and black magick as an "evil" act of pure debauchery for the gratification of animal desires.

Good and evil also require some consideration here. Unless you are a Christian who beleives that there are supernatral external forces of "good" and "evil" then Good vs Evil is a question of context. Therefore something I might consider a "good" act might be interepted by someone else as "evil". COnsider any revolution or conflict - both sides beleive they are right and fighting on the side of good. The Israelies consider Hamas as being evil terrorists - while Hamas considers Israel to be an occupying army that has kicked the palestine's from there home land, seized their lands, repressed their freedom and human rights and are the murderers of innocents. Good and evil are therefore a "point" of view based upon how one individual measures their moral system as dictated by their ego and super ego against the actions of another.

The pentagram has been used since the early Greek hermetics - where it was used as a symbol of protection - and often inscribed on doors or the entrance to dwellings. It was an early Christian symbol also - the 5 points representing the 5 wounds jesus suffered on the cross.

As stated before - in the upright position the top most point represents spirit/mind over the four classical elements of fire, air, earth and water - therefore mind over matter or "order". In the averse position it represents the elements over the mind - or matter over mind - and therefore chaos and disorder. Again - Chaos and Disorder are neither good nor evil. Change/Chaos can be a force of good and renewal (revolution, etc) - the individual again decides wether these events are "good" or "evil" based on their personal perspective and context to the events.

Satanists are actually a tiny fraction of the occult. To be a satanist you have to buy into the Christian religion. Most of the Western occult tradition is based on a blend of Hermetics and the Quabbalah and as such Christianity is just another religion such as Islam, Hinduism, Judeaism, etc.

Anton Lavey's modern Satanist movement was started I think in the 60's and borrowed some symbolism from the occult. It uses the averse pentagram and overlaid it on the goat of mendes - the idea being that the 2 upward points are the horns of the goat, the middle 2 the ears, and the lower the goats chin. They also have the names of Samuel and Lilith included in the design. According to the Jewish religion there is no devil. Satan is a hebrew word - not a name. SAI TAN in hebrew is an officer of god - it means "the accuser" and was an office assigned to any one of the various Arch Angels to test man. According to Jewish legend Samuel was the best at this testing and became so arrogent that he questioned gods authority and was cast out. Lilith according to Jewish legend was adams first wife, who was told to be obidient to Adam and "lie below" adam during sex. Lilith refused to be subservient to Adam or lie below and so was kicked out of eden (and then turned into a demon). Both Lilith and Samuel are therefore venerated as the male and female embodiment of free will. If you go to Wikipedia.com and look up "satanism" you will see the official seal/logo I am talking about - and it bears no relation to the design found in the OP's basement - therefore it is neither satanic - and as discussed is neither purely for "black" or "White" magick.

The modern Neo pagan and Wiccan movements are huge. By current rate of growth Wicca will be the 3rd biggest religion in the USA by 2012 - passing Judeaism. Wicca is based on the tenet "Harm None" - and frowns on any act of will that is not an act of love or the desire to help. And as Death cell correctly pointed out - the pentagram is just a tool and can be used in any configuration based upon the intent of the ritual, which in the case of Wicca then "black magick" is a redundent term.

Most of the modern occult is based on the teachings of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. This group uses Christian, Egyptian, Jewish, Egyptian, Gnostic and Pagan archetypes in its rituals - and is all about the betterment of the individual by beleiving that god is within and it is up to the individual to "perfect" themselves. The golden dawn has many offshoots including the A.'.A.'., Builders of the Adytum, Stella Matuina, Aurum Solis, and a multitude of others. These groups existed before modern satanism and have nothing to do with either Christianity or Satanism. They use the pentagram based on the classic Grimoires such as the "Key of Solomon" where it was again used as a symbol of protection. These Grimoires teachings were expanded upon in Aggipa's 3 books of occult philosophy (the foundation work of the western occult) and expanded upon again in the 1800's by Levi - whose key work "Trancandental Magic" is another classic source work.

In summary - the pentagram either upright or averse can not be generalized as being for purely white magick or black magick. The terms white and black magick can also not be genralized as these are a matter of individual perspective to any given act. And Satanism does not = the occult - its a minor offshoot that might use (or not) black and/or white magick.

I can't believe you burned it! O.O
I would have been very intrigued and would have tried to find more info on it. You know, solid information. Plus if its a good thing mabey you just burned your good luck. lol