Carabas

Hey, what do you mean with that first dream? Do u mean the fox is crying because the man induced it with consciousness? How does that relate to violence/morality? I am just curious because i got intrigued.

Conscience, not consciousness. I assume the fox was crying over the pain it had caused others, now that it had a conscience.

And if that doesn't answer the question, the long answer:

The dream was based on a conversation I'd been having yesterday, questioning whether nonviolence is necessarily a spiritual good - I've got mixed feelings about it, and apparently I was still working on it while I was asleep. When I was awake, I'd brought up microorganisms (the body will defend itself on a microscopic level whether you want it or not, so complete nonviolence is impossible). My dream was making the opposite point, that an understanding of the pain you cause is a factor.

Aah, okay. Ye.. Interesting dream then. I also have mixed feelings about violence and non-violence in light of spirituality. I think humans developed a conscience either _Because_ we spiritual ly developped or alongside with it or because it is a spiritual neccesity to learn to able to act morally towards other life forms.

I actually think of microorganisms a lot. And violence. If a virus was a spiritual being. It is morally evil because as a parasite it has little to no regard for it's host. It either has no conscience or complete disregard for right or wrong.

The body on the other hand is working on protecting, and neccesates violence as a positive thing. As for the virus, i feel no pity because it either has little to no feelings or it doesn't care about me at all. (However, the virus might have no idea what wrong it is doing, or from another perspective it might be doing a good thing because humans are filthy and we should all die)

I think it is an endless discussion really, but I think i get ur point here. Understanding or non-understanding of the pain you are causing is a factor in whether one is spiritually guilty for violent deeds or not. Guess it all boils down to Karma in a certain sense , but then again what doesn't.

I wouldn't consider a virus evil. Conscience or not, aware or not, the only way a virus can survive is by causing others pain. That's the core of the whole issue really: pain and death are a part of life, so something about trying to avoid them at all costs - I can't see that as spiritual at all. It's a rejection of life, and of the world.

The thing is, spirituality leads to a compassion for all life. That compassion is a spiritual good. And practicing nonviolence is one way of expressing that - but I don't believe nonviolence is a spiritual good in and of itself, and I don't believe it's always the best way of expressing that compassion, especially if it's mixed up with a not-particularly-spiritual horror of pain and death.

That's the part I have mixed feelings about - trying to sort out that sense of compassion from the recognition of pain and death as part of life, not spiritual evils.

Although my dream would disagree, apparently. Yeah, it's an endless discussion.