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    Thread: Patjunfa's workbook

    1. #26
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      Had a few nights trying MILD and SSILD but not much results. One beginning of a WILD which was nice and a v short DILD last night, which was nice to have something after a few days of no carryover. A couple of nights ago woke at 5, hard to wake, wrote dream and went to bathroom and light stretch, then no sleep for next hour until I got up still...meant more time for morning meditation
      Undaunted anyway, after a general good lucid spree, I'm still thinking I can progress to the level of lucid ease I'm looking for. Having a good dream goal seems useful. Last night my goal was to meet an embodiment of dream wisdom and also to call to meet my shadow (which has led to some interesting lucids before). I also want to develop a fun/exciting goal to have alongside more exploratory/spiritual/psychological goals. I think the fun goals access a different motivation which is useful and has crossover. As I was hiking the other day I thought how much fun it would be to transform into a horse and gallop, or in general to be able to shift perspective into different dream characters or not have perception confined to the dream ego...Going out tonight so prob wont be best night for induction but def still on the job

      Fogelbise, in a different thread you were mentioning the peg system for remembering dream goals. I've been playing with memory systems lately. A couple of times I used them to remember dreams during the night rather than waking and writing. In Daniel loves book he talks about using memory systems to remember long lucids and also to remember dream goals while in the lucid. It could be handy during a lucid if you could recall some of the sequence and tie it into a memory system, but I've found sometimes If my mind wanders into to much remembering during the dream it feels a bit like im not in the dream and I wake...Perhaps with more confidence and expectation it may work. Curious what your use of the peg system has been...
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    2. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by Patjunfa View Post
      A couple of nights ago woke at 5, hard to wake, wrote dream and went to bathroom and light stretch, then no sleep for next hour until I got up still...meant more time for morning meditation
      It's good that you found the positive side I am not sure what your typical post WBTB timeframe is but I prefer to have at least 2-3 hours left to sleep after a WBTB...but everyone's ideal time segment for lucid dreaming may be a little different. I like at least 2-3 hours because I tend to have my strongest lucidity in my next to last REM period, but I frequently get 9 hours of sleep or 6 REM periods and that last one between 7.5 to 9 hours tends to be more fleeting…unless perhaps I am experiencing REM rebound after less sleep the night before. So 3 hours plus is ideal...but with at least 2 hours left I have a good shot of getting a full 90 minute cycle in where REM is not cut short by needing to wake up, and it still has a good chance of not being fleeting if I happen to be getting closer to 7.5 hours sleep that night (since 6 to 7.5 hour period seems to be best for me). Let me know if that is too much of a mess to decipher.

      I think the fun goals access a different motivation which is useful and has crossover.
      I strongly agree!

      As I was hiking the other day I thought how much fun it would be to transform into a horse and gallop, or in general to be able to shift perspective into different dream characters or not have perception confined to the dream ego...
      I think these kinds of thoughts are very useful to lucid dreaming practice, in addition to being fun IWL! Nice!

      Fogelbise, in a different thread you were mentioning the peg system for remembering dream goals. I've been playing with memory systems lately. A couple of times I used them to remember dreams during the night rather than waking and writing. In Daniel loves book he talks about using memory systems to remember long lucids and also to remember dream goals while in the lucid. It could be handy during a lucid if you could recall some of the sequence and tie it into a memory system, but I've found sometimes If my mind wanders into to much remembering during the dream it feels a bit like im not in the dream and I wake...Perhaps with more confidence and expectation it may work. Curious what your use of the peg system has been...
      His book is actually where I got the peg system. I think I played with using the peg system to remember parts of the dream but I have concern that it could interfere with using the pegs for my goals. One way to get around this would be to use pegs 1-5 (or 1-10) for goals and then pegs 6-10 (or 11-20) for dream recall. I currently use pegs for goals and letter tags for recall. Letter tags example from two nights ago HMS HM_? I remember the phrase "Her Majesty's Ship, Her Majesty's _____ (forgot)." When I wake I write down H=House, M=Mall, S=Stars, 2nd HM_: H=Hands, M=now forget, ___ tag forgotten but it may be for one of the scenes that I do remember and just forgot the letter tag I created for it. It sounds like you know how to use pegs from Love's book, but I currently have 1-10 filled with my goals. I tend to focus on just a few of the pegs and goals at a time and keep the other pegs there for any lucidity where I decide to go after multiple goals. This also allows me to not lose track of goals that may be on the back burner, but goals that I do want to work on (like narrating my dreams…back burner right now but I think it is a very valuable goal that, by the way seems it would be a great way to capture as much recall as possible if you are consistently narrating as you go through the lucid.).
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    3. #28
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      V cool with the tag's. Do you have the tags figured out b4 or just a letter for main events or people etc as it happens and hope that it's enough to associate to in the morning? I often wake regularly during the night and at times aft ach sleep cycle. I find it great hen I make some notes at these, but a bit exhausting if I spend 20 mins or so writing and then some time to go back asleep. It's also disruptive to a good night sleep to be so regularly v awake that you don't go to deep sleep. My ideal is to make v brief notes, even just a few letters like I think you do.it still takes a few mins to recall dreams at times but if cud make v quick notes and not get perfectionist/habitual with detail, it would be useful. The last few days I've only been writing at my final wake up, which feels a bit shoddy...

      With memory systems I generally use a journey system, where I picture 10 locations on a journey through my house (or 30 when I want to impress myself :-)). You can make loads of different journeys and it's easy to reimagine walking along the route and remembering. I'd still be curious How much you could do this in a lucid dream and how much the mind can wander from the scene around you, which can lead to waking. Narrating the scene as suggest can be great to build awareness of what's happening. I've done this at times but not as oft as intended. It's perhaps a bit like noting practice in meditation, where one mental notes the changing experience that passes through attention. It's a great way to stay present and attentive to detail.

      I'd guess it's a good exercise to plan out 10 goals to do in LD and associate to a memory system

      I also like 2-3 hours after a full WBTB. Ideally 3 so can get 2nd cycle in. I plan to do 1st proper WBTB in a while tonight. Feel would like to get back to good level of lucidity to build my sense that I have regular and not only sporadic access to fulfilling lucidity...I have potential to get a good nights sleep next 2 nights so hopefully will have some success to updat with
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    4. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Patjunfa View Post
      V cool with the tag's. Do you have the tags figured out b4 or just a letter for main events or people etc as it happens and hope that it's enough to associate to in the morning?
      I make the tags up on the fly. So in the above example I was thinking during a breather (might have been during an FA) something like "Okay I was at a House a few different times, and the beautiful Stars, after the Mall…(what is good to remember that? Rearrange the letters to form HMS.)" But it could have also been SMH which is often used in text messaging to say "Shaking my Head" or keeping in the same order HSM "He sees me", or similar. Yes, I hope it is enough to associate in the morning since my priority is on lucidity over recall. I mostly use letter tags as I am waking up by staying still and making up new tags in my head before moving and getting up to write, and sometimes going over tags already memorized earlier in the night. Tags created during dreams are mostly kept to just FA's (typically before realizing it is an FA) or during quiet time in the void, for me at least.

      I often wake regularly during the night and at times aft ach sleep cycle. I find it great hen I make some notes at these, but a bit exhausting if I spend 20 mins or so writing and then some time to go back asleep. It's also disruptive to a good night sleep to be so regularly v awake that you don't go to deep sleep. My ideal is to make v brief notes, even just a few letters like I think you do.it still takes a few mins to recall dreams at times but if cud make v quick notes and not get perfectionist/habitual with detail, it would be useful. The last few days I've only been writing at my final wake up, which feels a bit shoddy...
      It is definitely up to you and what works for you. If you need a good night's sleep then I would definitely suggest to go the non-perfectionist route and when you are working on building recall stronger as a priority and you can sleep in then perhaps you can spend more time recording throughout the night, but up to you either way. I usually only do two recordings: one recording at my single WBTB (I only rarely do multiple WBTB's though I see nothing wrong with multiples) and one recording when I get up for the morning. I am obviously not capturing every dream scene and probably missing quite a few, but again that is not my priority at this time.

      With memory systems I generally use a journey system, where I picture 10 locations on a journey through my house (or 30 when I want to impress myself :-)). You can make loads of different journeys and it's easy to reimagine walking along the route and remembering. I'd still be curious How much you could do this in a lucid dream and how much the mind can wander from the scene around you, which can lead to waking.
      Nice getting up to 30! It does seem like it would be taking too much focus off of the dream, but then again, it could create a new scene in your journey location which seems akin to what some call a "memory palace." I think narrating has no risk as long as you do not narrate stuff connecting back to being awake...or connecting back to your sleeping body any more than a vague thought of your waking body.

      I'd guess it's a good exercise to plan out 10 goals to do in LD and associate to a memory system
      Besides getting excited about a number of different goals, it also gives you one more way and opportunity to exercise memory which is a lucid dreaming fundamental, as long time lucid dreamer Sageous often reminds us here on DV.
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    5. #30
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      Great thanks. Def going to try brief tagging and see how it works. Been an intention since chatting with sensei ages ago. He makes v brief tags on multiple brief wakings. I'm on WBTB at mo. Nice level of recall so far which is good start. Have taped a red light torch to pen so making notes in night easier. All good. Goina do bit of meditation then back to sleep. Time can fly on WBTB. Tnks for your ongoing support. So valuable
      " The bad news is your falling through the air, nothing to hang on to, no parachute. The good news is that theres no ground" - Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

    6. #31
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      no lucidity last night. surprising as conditions were v good. I'd been reading lucid stuff during day, setting intention and rc's, excited to be going to bed, then good amount of sleep, good recall, 1 hr wbtb. woke after 1 1/2 hour, like from long deep sleep. recalled dream, glad that I had another 1 1/2 hrs left. again did Mild visualisation and stating intent, then found it was time to get up...recalled dream. 1/2 surprised and 1/2 amused no lucidity...
      ah well, hopefully get good sleep again tonight and perhaps another wbtb. I intend to keep efforts and expectations good and reach goal of regular quality lucids...
      " The bad news is your falling through the air, nothing to hang on to, no parachute. The good news is that theres no ground" - Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

    7. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by Patjunfa View Post
      I intend to keep efforts and expectations good and reach goal of regular quality lucids...
      Great, I am confident this will lead you to that goal. I still have nights where all conditions seem good but it just doesn't happen, but it is also becoming more common to have lucid dreams when conditions are less than ideal and/or when I wasn't trying that night and just planning to sleep and I chalk that up to the regular efforts that you mention.

      Congratulations on the nice set of TOTM wings, by the way!
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    8. #33
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      no lucidity last night. v good routine, which is a success in terms of building good efforts and habits. after 3 hours I woke after each sleep cycle, making notes after most wakes. switched room after 4 ½ hrs. played with SSild Mild and my old favorite 61 point technique (but needed more wakefulness to get this to work). in morning, when checking clock to see what time and if any more time/windows to attempt lucidity, I felt like I had knocked on the door often enough and time to stop. bit disappointing as was kinda building the sense of having good access when I put the right efforts in. its still more nebulous than that though. still inspired by your rate of increase in LD's and expecting to achieve better levels of ease with these practices but weathered enough to take it lightly. also it may all contribute and result in lucidity another time where less effort is put in. prob wknd when get to put decent efforts in nighttime. will still lightly expect more spontaneous lucidity in meanwhile
      " The bad news is your falling through the air, nothing to hang on to, no parachute. The good news is that theres no ground" - Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

    9. #34
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      I was in the same boat with you last night...felt good about my efforts but woke up not remembering any lucidity. I had a very interesting dream about a flood and perhaps that flood washed away my lucidity, haha! Here's to us all getting lucid at next sleep!
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    10. #35
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      Lucid on Sat.
      I'm with a woman in work, its dark outside. I ask Why is it dark outside in the middle of the day. Who, I'll tell you why! Cause this is a dream! checked my hands to confirm. "lucidity boost" and it gets brighter and feels stable. I ask a dream character what this dream is about. He answers but I cant make out what words he says. Ok. First goal, do healing on my foot/ankle which has been sore for a while. Rub hands together and bring to heart then to foot. Can feel the usual sore part, find myself spinning slowly as holding foot. Reflect that this is probably useful to keep visuals changing and prevent my single focus as I hold foot. "may my foot be healed of all non beneficial illness". Think whats my next task...1st, call out"why has my foot been sore"? A DC says something but I can't understand the words. I ask again, and she says something like fagus rejectus...I think, does she think I'm gay? and then it goes into a sex dream with her. Good luck to the rest of my dream goals Ended up waking after a bit, lay still and imagined various senses from last activity. DEILD started with a nice similar scene but then woke again and too awake.
      Foot actually has felt a bit better and not sore 1st thing in morning as it has been. Bit different now as I've been running.

      I do hope for a more apparently intelligent/understandable dreamscape. ie. that I can ask things and have a useful understandable response. I've at times asked the dream, show me something important I need to see. At times there has been some form of change but nothing that strikes me as significant, or maybe i'm just not understanding it. I've asked dream characters what they represent and either had words I cant understand as in this dream, or they've asked me what does represent mean...In this dream, the words didn't make sense. Then I got fagus regecticus something like that that. I don't make sense of it, I'm not gay, but totally ok with gay friends and don't have any conscious sense of reactivity or rejection to this theme. Robert Waggoner says that not all DC's are created equal, as in some are v intelligent and some are not. This makes sense to me. Perhaps sometimes you get more of an intelligible response to requests and other times you just get an interesting or different experience. Sometimes the dream seems v potent and connected and at other times this factor x is not there.
      Going to explore this theme a bit more in dreams. Planning on calling out to meet a manifestation of dream wisdom and see what happens. Will ask them what can they teach me about Lucid dreaming. I've asked for a dream guide a number of times and not gotten a response, except once where a DC sounded irritated and said we've heard you, it'll come...
      This workbook is useful. Asides from all the great feedback, it also helps fuel motivation just by being a place to report results.
      Hope your flood has past and lucidity has returned enforce :-)
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    11. #36
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      Congratulations on the lucid, getting the DEILD also, and remembering goals!

      One idea to try with any DC is to walk up to them with something like the Jedi Mind Trick, perhaps saying something like "I can tell you are a smart (wise, helpful, whatever) person/DC/other (your choice)" and then ask the question.

      Yes, thank you, lucidity did return but I had a couple of dreams the other night where I feel I was able to learn more from them by not becoming lucid, maybe semi-lucid at some point. Interestingly they were almost identical in theme giving me the impression that I interpreted the first dream incorrectly after I woke from it so I got a slightly different version of the same dream theme to make sure I got the message perhaps.
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    12. #37
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      that sounds a good idea with the Jedi trick. a way of working in dream that id like to play with. putting out the expectation, similarish to how you suggest while waiting for an image to form, to speak what you want to see manifest...ahh I feel the branches of the trees on Pandora and can see the leaves forming. seems like a deliberate way to work with projection and expectation...projection seems to be such a factor in the dream world (waking world to, just less immediately visible). I remember in a LD b4 talking to a DC and having the thought that I don't trust him, his eyes then turned paperlike and he became wooden. in a different dream (wasn't sure if was lucid) there was a dangerous/threatening DC. after initial fear I started saying phrases of loving kindness, my you be well and may you be at peace, may we both be well and at peace. i feel the dc transformed into to peaceful loving presence. the power of projection is so visable and immediate. I hope to add the deliberate projection that you suggest, to my LD play in the dream world.

      been a bit of an interesting week dreaming. had goals I haven't managed to try out and while I've built more confidence and expectation of lucidity, its still clearly not on tap so there can be the edge of frustration at times. at times I've chosen to go more lightly and just enjoy splashing in and out of the waters of unconsciousness even if I don't get to surf. sometimes I just love sleep! it seems an ongoing balancing act to carry expectation and goals and yet appreciate whatever happens...noticing the failed efforts and any reactions, then appreciating again the moment one is in. a bit like revving up while waiting at the lights but not being in gear and so choosing to chil a bit b4 getting ready again...

      Interesting how you dreams repeated the theme so you got the message. I find I generally don't 'get' he message from dreams...I just play with th experience and felt sense. I'd like a broader approach. In the past if read a good bit but never felt skilled at dream interpretive work. Jungian or gestalt etc are such a different approach than lucid or dream yoga approach. So often, traditional dream workers are very negative about lucid dreaming, imagining (I think) it to be dream control in service of ego needs. I haven't come across much explicit writings or material by people who take a lucid approach alongside working with the meaning or messages within dreams. A friend today was mentioning he has been reading c j Jungs red book. I heard of this book so many years ago. It's available now. Thinking I may get it. Also thinking I may listen to Jungs memory's dreams reflections on audio. I loved the book many years ago. May stimulate another relationship to dreaming.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Patjunfa View Post
      it seems an ongoing balancing act to carry expectation and goals and yet appreciate whatever happens...noticing the failed efforts and any reactions, then appreciating again the moment one is in.
      Very true. Whenever you can perform a WBTB, I feel that consistent WBTBs would be the easiest short-term boost to getting consistent LDs. You are doing fine though, noting an LD about a week ago…but improvements are within your grasp I'm sure.
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      Tnks. Need to be a bit more committed with wbtb. Did 20 min last night, woke every 30-45 mins with no sense of dreams oddly. Plan to do proper 1 hr wbtb tonight and/or tmrow
      " The bad news is your falling through the air, nothing to hang on to, no parachute. The good news is that theres no ground" - Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

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      Had a couple few nights now of 30-40min wbtb. Last night got to bed early and good conditions but no lucidity. Making good consistent efforts but a bit of a dry spell these last 2 weeks. Think only 1 v brief lucid... I started looking back through journal as I'm coming to the end of this journal. At the weekend I hope to mark and maybe write up some of the interesting dreams and lucids during this last journal. Short term memory can be so short and in a dry spell can forget how rich dream life has been over a wider timeframe...Goina keep consistent anyway, might vary dream goal or even try a different induction. Go back to WILD attempts some nights perhaps. Funny (again the short term memory) how confident I felt with MILD and SSILD only a couple of weeks ago. As they added more ease to my induction method, still goina keep em as my (mostly) nightly induction method
      " The bad news is your falling through the air, nothing to hang on to, no parachute. The good news is that theres no ground" - Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

    16. #41
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      Quote Originally Posted by Patjunfa View Post
      At the weekend I hope to mark and maybe write up some of the interesting dreams and lucids during this last journal. Short term memory can be so short and in a dry spell can forget how rich dream life has been over a wider timeframe…

      Goina keep consistent anyway, might vary dream goal or even try a different induction. Go back to WILD attempts some nights perhaps.
      -So true! That is something I do as well during a dry spell - going back over recent interesting dreams and any past favorite dreams, lucid or not.

      -A new dream goal that gets you excited can be helpful and there is nothing wrong with mixing in different techniques on different nights. DEILD is another easy one to attempt and Broth (another workbook) is really liking CAN WILD (alarms that auto snoozing or auto dismissing - to trigger DEILDs). An easy way to mix that in on any night is to set an alarm with a phone app like Alarm Clock Xtreme to ring for 10-15 seconds perhaps and then auto dismiss and you just remember to lay still when you hear it and try to sink into your bed and back into a dream with awareness. Definitely mix in standard WILDs anytime you feel up to it.
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      Still on a dry spell. Eager to get back into lucid action. Been making fairly good efforts, daytime intentions, some WBTBs. Did 1 hr last night, followed by SSILD, woke, mild, woke tryed wild but didn't get far. No lucidity, Gota stay fairly relentlessly optimistic with such an inconsistent resulting practice...can be interesting sometimes how initial morning disappointment shifts and so perception and life are seen as dreamlike and illusionary. Intentions shift from recognising the night time dream state towards being awake to the daytime dream state...
      Night time now tho so goina go unconscious v shortly with interest, intentions and hope
      " The bad news is your falling through the air, nothing to hang on to, no parachute. The good news is that theres no ground" - Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

    18. #43
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      I am rooting for you Patjunfa!

      Are you trying any new goals or variations of nighttime practices? I don't always get lucid after a WBTB but I now do a lengthy WBTB (30-50 minutes) almost every night and over the years of consistent practices have gotten more and more consistent results. I enjoy the time up. I usually get to bed earlier to make up for the time that I am not sleeping during WBTB.
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      Tnks Fogelbise, your support is great.
      Im On wbtb at the mo. I've changed my current goal and am hoping to do the TOTM. It was an old goal to be able to fly through space. I've never managed it yet so its nice that that's a TOTM. Hoping my efforts to do this provide a learning curve. Also the bonus task of making yourself huge then small again is interesting. Reminds me of one of Wangyals (Tibetan Yogas of dream amd sleep)dream tasks, "change your size in the dream, become as small as an insect and then as large as mountain. Take a big problem and make it small. Take a small beautiful flower and make it as large as the sun".
      As a task it creates a nice fusion of motivations
      Haven't really varied induction style much yet. Slightly varied ssild in that I do some mild and intention setting before. And with Mild, really trying to concentrate on the feeling of becoming lucid and then extend into my LD goal. Haven't tryed the DEILD alarm idea yet which sounds good. Planning on setting intent for Deild on nights where I've a bit less time. A couple of nights a week, like tonight, can suit for a good wbtb and then sleep in different room.

      I'd like to be more creative with my time on Wbtb. If its a clear night I can really enjoy getting a good starscape. When Aaronoscar is not in India, we sometimes meet up on wbtb which is fun. Yet sometimes we still find ourselves wondering what would be a good productive or focused use of time. Considering trying to use time more for writing also.
      As you say you enjoy the time what do you find yourself doing? Also do you tend to do after 4 1/2 or 6 hours? I find 4 1/2 good as in the following 2-3 hours I'll prob wake a couple of times which gives a good opportunity to work with the wbtb aroused consciousness. However 6 hours can bring closer to the shoreline of rem sleep and also be a bit less disruptive in terms of sleep quality, cause 6 hours alone cud be OK even on a worknight , where it'd be be a bummer after 4 1/2 if the following sleep wasnt good and then had a long day...also funny how I see my need for quality sleep. I line to get a good sleep. If I had only 5-6 hours from 1-6/7 in morning I'd prob feel fine, but if went to bed at 10 and got up at 3/4 and didnt get good sleep after, I think I'd be a bit daunted by a long days work...
      To sleep now and to fly in space to a random star, then perhaps the bonus TONM
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      " The bad news is your falling through the air, nothing to hang on to, no parachute. The good news is that theres no ground" - Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

    20. #45
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      Quote Originally Posted by Patjunfa View Post
      I'd like to be more creative with my time on Wbtb. If its a clear night I can really enjoy getting a good starscape. When Aaronoscar is not in India, we sometimes meet up on wbtb which is fun. Yet sometimes we still find ourselves wondering what would be a good productive or focused use of time.
      Perhaps inspiring each other along the lines of "check that out - that's weird/dreamy/beautiful…if I were dreaming right now, I would..!..let's do an RC or two or three." I think it can also be productive to discuss recent dreams, things that you are trying, practices you found insightful and/or fun.

      As you say you enjoy the time what do you find yourself doing? Also do you tend to do after 4 1/2 or 6 hours?
      I get out of bed completely and alternate between sitting and standing. I don't think I have ever gone outside, but I see nothing wrong with it if you are able to get back to sleep. I start by journaling the dreams so far and then I like browsing inspiring and beautiful photos on my phone, usually on instagram. I sometimes get sidetracked by political posts on there, sometimes researching if the post is true. The light doesn't seem to negatively affect me either. Sometimes I will look up LD material on my phone as well. It's a nice quiet time to myself.

      I do it whenever I wake up naturally, trying to time it with drinking the right amount of water before bed so that I wake closer to 4.5 hours, but if it is closer to 6 hours I'll do it then (skipping any WBTBs if I am not feeling well). If it is much less than 4 hours or so, I just drink more water and go back to sleep. When I started out I would only do it on weekends when I could sleep in, but once I got to a point of getting to bed on time and getting back to sleep easily after WBTB, I began doing WBTB most nights. (I didn't last night as the wife was awake at the same time and she would be complaining to come back to bed.) This would only seem to work for you when you are not meeting up with Aaronoscar for the WBTB...I am guessing you use alarms for those times.
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    21. #46
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      Had a short WILd after last WBTB. Nice slow journey into sleep, v settled body, mind slowing, turning towards hypnogogia, drifting, timeless...short wild, strong energy pulsing. Pulled th curtains open but there were a fe layers of curtains so gave up, found myself floating down through the floor and downward without intent which was bit scary, became a FA after not long...in remaining sleep, had loads of wakes and loads of dreams, which gave the fun impression of a long long sleep. No sense of being able to carry lucid intent though...
      Funny the layers of the curtains...like some resistance or something manifesting...also with the sinking through the floor...something else going on. Also not gat awareness in order to remind self it's an dream and could be just interested in it...

      After couple of pints and not many hours sleep last night I tryed deild. Had a dream where I was trying deild and also a few wakes in which I thought of it but found myself moving rather than staying still...gave me the sense that it's worth playing with it some more.
      Doesn't feel out of the dry spell yet but a little change in the weather...
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    22. #47
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      Nice! Congratulations Patjunfa!

      Quote Originally Posted by Patjunfa View Post
      After couple of pints and not many hours sleep last night I tryed deild. Had a dream where I was trying deild and also a few wakes in which I thought of it but found myself moving rather than staying still...gave me the sense that it's worth playing with it some more.
      Doesn't feel out of the dry spell yet but a little change in the weather...
      Definitely worth playing with some more! A little change in the weather indeed!
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    23. #48
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      I just have to comment that in the last couple of weeks I too had a dream with multiple layers of curtains and a LD where I sunk down through the bed and was then just there noticing the dust.
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    24. #49
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      Interesting Azaleaj, what did you make of it?
      I kind of think of layers of curtains being like some form of resistance. I remember one time pealing back layers of a wall and th being loads of sharp knives sticking out. I put the layers back, thinking in the dream, that if there is this much protection ok, I'll leave it alone...I also think of what Holecek and others write about the practice of going through walls in LD. Shows the minds habitual tendency to raeify or believe things to be solid where they are unsubstantial...often if I get stuck, I remind myself that it is illusion and the wall is made of the same mater as the air....helps me realise a bit deeper and get past my mental barriers. Curtains are probably similar. Manifestation of some form of resistance that may prevent passage if we don't sink to deeper realisation...
      With sinking through the floor...it's an odd one...I used to also fly without control and crash into things...might mean something but the reaction is at least equally important. One of my memorable LD experiences occurred with a v blissful transition during WiLD followed by out of control crashing into stuff...I could feel the start of a reaction thinking that this isn't good...I could feel how quickly this reaction becomes a lived experience as being some sort of "oh shit" negative event...but I had the insight that this is just a visual experience...the afterglow of the bliss wasn't too far away and so no longer reacting, I let myself crash about the place, after a bit the ðream changed corse. Really taught me how quickly our reactions and interpretations colour and make our experience. I still obviously react and get caught in it as with the last dream

      Had a short DILD the other day after a WBTB. Went back to sleep with a fresh confidence, which has somewhat remained since first DILD in a while. rC'd in the dream, which failed but checked again and then lovely rush of realisation...had a growing sense of it not lasting as a LD, I called out various good stuff, intentions, asking for confidence to continue dream, but somehow I was feeding the belief of it ending and it did with me becoming aware of the duvet against my face and waking...odd how those negative expectations play out sometimes...should have stabilised with rubbing hands, body and various senses in hope that dream would anchor more...still...baby step forward again...hopefully have some good lucid action to report soon
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    25. #50
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      Quote Originally Posted by Patjunfa View Post
      Had a short DILD the other day after a WBTB. Went back to sleep with a fresh confidence, which has somewhat remained since first DILD in a while. rC'd in the dream, which failed but checked again and then lovely rush of realisation...had a growing sense of it not lasting as a LD, I called out various good stuff, intentions, asking for confidence to continue dream, but somehow I was feeding the belief of it ending and it did with me becoming aware of the duvet against my face and waking...odd how those negative expectations play out sometimes...should have stabilised with rubbing hands, body and various senses in hope that dream would anchor more...
      Congratulations on becoming lucid!

      I would recommend one of two paths for the concern about possibly feeding belief that the dream was ending. One is to try to forget about stabilization altogether and just focus on enjoying your lucid dreams. The other is to treat any stabilization techniques as something you just do as a matter of habit, thinking about "stabilization" as little as possible. You can rehearse either scenario during the day and it can be quite fun imagining that you are in a dream in various waking scenarios.
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