Thread: Beating our limitations.

I don't know if it is confidence or not. The reading thing has failed for me so many times (I mean the text not changing; but actually it's rarely readable at all). Other people say they can read too, like you. I don't know why I can't, but I'm not sure it's a lack of confidence.

I change light levels easily. When I flip a switch when I'm lucid, I know I will get a strange glowing effect that will be enough to see by. I used to shout "LIGHTS" with good effect, but I haven't needed to do that in a long time.

if u believe and foucs any thing is possible

I don't believe any of this talk about certain things being impossible. Thinking that way is just invitation to have it happen to you.
Perhaps some people are more inclined to these problems, but I think its really just a deep belief thing. If reading fails on you for some reason, then you don't expect it to work the next time, so it doesn't.

Personally I haven't tried to read in a Lucid, but I've read plenty of things in regular dreams and its perfectly clear. When I wake up I can recall the image of the text really well still.

I have changed light levels though. By turning night into day. I've never tried a light switch. And again, in regular dreams I've done lots of light level changing. Like last night I was creating orbs of light to light up a tent. Then I created an orb of light and shot it into the sky, turning it into the sun. The light levels all changed accordingly.

The ONLY limitation I have encountered in a lucid dream is that light switches do not appear to work.

I have read in LDs, changed light levels... I have never believed for a second that these things are impossible, and this has been demonstrated by myself.

For me I have read some things. When I look away and look back it's not the text that changes, but what it is written on. Like in one dream it changed from cardboard to a paper plate.

The only ways I have ever tried changing light levels is with a lamp and flashlight. They both work for a short while, but they always flicker and eventually turn off.

I spoke too soon.
Last night I managed to WILD for the first time and found myself in my bedroom in complete darkness unable to conjure up light. So I tried the light switch and it didn't work! Doh!

I had to resort to feeling my way outside and thankfully there was some moonlight and I was able to see a bit.

Reading and writing can be difficult for me in lucid and non-lucid dreams.

Getting anything electrical to work (i.e., phones, fax machines, copiers, etc.) are difficult for me in non-lucid dreams.

adjusting light was thought impossible? Hell thats ALL I can do!

Limitations is just illusions to the eye while Lucid. Some people tend to find it hard/difficult on what you did there. Congratz into doing it

i think we should all read billybob's tutorial on schemata. i think this is a case of it i dont know the link, but if you find it it will explain. i think clairity can back me up on this.

Immaterium, I'm not sure which Billybob's tutorial you're speaking of but I did a search using his name and "schemata" and found the following (hopefully one of them is the one you're referring to):

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=48095

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=46571

While I haven't had a lucid dream I've had several dreams where the level of light changes spontaneously. Always from day to night. For instance in one dream it was evening like the sun was starting to set and I went inside my house and my mom said "What are you doing out so late?" and I was like "Huh?" and then she said "It's one o' clock." and I look up at the clock and it's says it's one o' clock and now everything's dark outside and only the kitchen light is on. But way to beat the system anyhow stephent91.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

Again, it's all about confidence.

I still doubt 360 degree vision and creating new colors

Originally Posted by warock

I still doubt 360 degree vision and creating new colors

I agree.

I do believe that anything you can experience or imagine while awake is possible in an LD. Flipping light switches and reading are two obvious examples. I really was shocked to find out that anyone had trouble with these things. I think it is all a matter of letting people put ideas into your head. There is really no reason why these things shouldn't work properly in dreams and in my experiences they certainly do.

However, I don't agree with the people that think you should be able to go outside the bounds of normal perception while dreaming.

New colors? Can you imagine new colors IRL? I certainly can't. Colors are just created by the reflection and absorption of light. The color spectrum is just a small part of the electromagnetic energy spectrum - all clearly defined by wavelengths of the energy. There are no gaps to be filled and therefore no way "create" new colors.

I also feel similarly about 360 vision. It would be extremely hard (if not impossible) for our brain to experience something so radically different from normal. However, at least maybe imagination could possibly allow for this - if its very strong

I think anything is possible in dreams as long as we know what it feels like IRL. Like I've heard stories about a figure skater that "practiced" her sport in LDs while she had a broken leg. That makes sense since obviously your brain remembers the movements from real experience. However, it certainly wouldn't be possible to become a black belt just from LDs if you have no RL training.

A good imagination can allow you to simulate these activities, but probably not very accurately. Which, I suppose, is why some people have trouble learning to fly and have to use techniques like "swimming motions".

The same thing with any sensation really - I doubt someone deaf from birth hears in dreams, blind people wouldn't see, etc.

Someone on these boards asked if its possible to give birth in an LD. It is, of course, but the experience most likely wouldn't be anything like reality if you've never actually given birth IRL. I also would be curious to hear how all of the RL virgins who have had "lucid sex" would compare the experience to the real thing when they get there

Originally Posted by Amelaclya

I agree.

I do believe that anything you can experience or imagine while awake is possible in an LD. Flipping light switches and reading are two obvious examples. I really was shocked to find out that anyone had trouble with these things. I think it is all a matter of letting people put ideas into your head. There is really no reason why these things shouldn't work properly in dreams and in my experiences they certainly do.

However, I don't agree with the people that think you should be able to go outside the bounds of normal perception while dreaming.

New colors? Can you imagine new colors IRL? I certainly can't. Colors are just created by the reflection and absorption of light. The color spectrum is just a small part of the electromagnetic energy spectrum - all clearly defined by wavelengths of the energy. There are no gaps to be filled and therefore no way "create" new colors.

I also feel similarly about 360 vision. It would be extremely hard (if not impossible) for our brain to experience something so radically different from normal. However, at least maybe imagination could possibly allow for this - if its very strong

I think anything is possible in dreams as long as we know what it feels like IRL. Like I've heard stories about a figure skater that "practiced" her sport in LDs while she had a broken leg. That makes sense since obviously your brain remembers the movements from real experience. However, it certainly wouldn't be possible to become a black belt just from LDs if you have no RL training.

A good imagination can allow you to simulate these activities, but probably not very accurately. Which, I suppose, is why some people have trouble learning to fly and have to use techniques like "swimming motions".

The same thing with any sensation really - I doubt someone deaf from birth hears in dreams, blind people wouldn't see, etc.

Someone on these boards asked if its possible to give birth in an LD. It is, of course, but the experience most likely wouldn't be anything like reality if you've never actually given birth IRL. I also would be curious to hear how all of the RL virgins who have had "lucid sex" would compare the experience to the real thing when they get there

A very thoughtful post, nicely done
About 360 degree vision. While in REM sleep your eyes move according to how they do while your dreaming, so how can you look behind yourself without moving. You might be able to see the blurry figures but you cant possibly focus on everything at once.
Hey I'm an open-minded guy... Post if you think differently, ill believe you if enough evidence is given

My new dream task is to acheive a good 360 degree vision. I'll prove you wrong.

Awesome!
I have read things and change the light levels but I am a natural LD'er.

Originally Posted by warock

A very thoughtful post, nicely done
About 360 degree vision. While in REM sleep your eyes move according to how they do while your dreaming, so how can you look behind yourself without moving. You might be able to see the blurry figures but you cant possibly focus on everything at once.
Hey I'm an open-minded guy... Post if you think differently, ill believe you if enough evidence is given

I personally don't really think its feasible either. But I was trying to be open-minded

Once when I was in like 1st grade or something, my classmates and I were all in lines walking behind the teacher to the next class and I was being naughty and flicked the ear of the boy in front of me. The teacher turned around and yelled at me and I was like "WTF how did she know?!". She later confessed that teachers have a dirty trick and often watch the class in the reflection in their eyeglasses

I guess if you are really good at extrapolating this, you could liken it to 360 degree vision. I personally don't think my imagination is THAT good, but someone's may be.

I think that the myths about what's hard in an LD are just based on what most people had trouble with.

Whenever you see something subjective like the difficulty or impossibility of a lucid task, always take it with a grain of salt.

Personally, I find reading to be different from dream to dream. Sometimes it's easy, and sometimes I can't even get through a sentence because it chances too fast. Usually, reading isn't too hard, though, especially just a sentence or two.

Things also differ from person to person imo. All dreamers have their strengths and weaknesses. Some things are more commonly difficult, like turning the lights back on, but just like the OP, I've been able to do it a few times without any trouble myself. However, I've had LDs where the lights refused to go back on at all and I just had to leave the area to fix it.

I also laugh at the "dreams aren't in color" myth. I came up with a fun little lucid experiment which disproved that several years ago. Just created a bag of marbles, took them out one by one and named the colors. If our minds really "insert" colors after we wake then I would not have been able to consciously see and describe the vivid colors. then I morphed each marble into something representative of it's color (i.e. a fire hydrant for red).

Originally Posted by Amelaclya

I personally don't think my imagination is THAT good, but someone's may be.

You'd be surprised how complex, intricate, and brilliant the mind's conceptualizations of new things can be.

Originally Posted by Naiya

I think that the myths about what's hard in an LD are just based on what most people had trouble with.

Whenever you see something subjective like the difficulty or impossibility of a lucid task, always take it with a grain of salt.

Personally, I find reading to be different from dream to dream. Sometimes it's easy, and sometimes I can't even get through a sentence because it chances too fast. Usually, reading isn't too hard, though, especially just a sentence or two.

Things also differ from person to person imo. All dreamers have their strengths and weaknesses. Some things are more commonly difficult, like turning the lights back on, but just like the OP, I've been able to do it a few times without any trouble myself. However, I've had LDs where the lights refused to go back on at all and I just had to leave the area to fix it.

I also laugh at the "dreams aren't in color" myth. I came up with a fun little lucid experiment which disproved that several years ago. Just created a bag of marbles, took them out one by one and named the colors. If our minds really "insert" colors after we wake then I would not have been able to consciously see and describe the vivid colors. then I morphed each marble into something representative of it's color (i.e. a fire hydrant for red).

I completely agree. It is definitely different from person to person as well as dream to dream, but not impossible in any case. I've had a dream or two where it was dark and I couldn't turn the lights on, but in those dreams, I also never actually tried. I would flip a switch then accept that the lights wouldn't turn on in the dream.

There are most likely many factors that can inhibit certain aspects of dreams, just like factors can decrease recall and vividness. Which could be why in one dream, I'm apathetic to going on major adventures when I had planned to the night before, while I can go do amazing, eventful lucids during others.

That's a pretty cool test that you did. That sounds fun.

For some reason it gave me the idea to make my dream black and white, with me as the only colorful thing, and whatever I touch will turn bright with color and come alive. I'll be the King Midas of color.

Originally Posted by StephenT

For some reason it gave me the idea to make my dream black and white, with me as the only colorful thing, and whatever I touch will turn bright with color and come alive. I'll be the King Midas of color.

Haha oh wow...that sounds cool. I may have to try that sometime.

I don't doubt 360 vision being possible but anyone who says you can create new colors in a dream is an idiot. If that were possible to do, don't you think people would be doing it and we'd have more colors? Crayola would hire people to do it. Either it's something the human eye can't see and you see nothing in the dream or it's a color that already exists. We already know how many colors the human eye can see, to simply manufacture new ones is impossible.

Originally Posted by Through the Looking Glass

If that were possible to do, don't you think people would be doing it and we'd have more colors?

You're thinking about it like it's a physical thing when it isn't. It IS possible to perceive things through the mind but not the senses. See what I'm saying?

Before you hit reply so fast again, try to really think about what I'm gonna say next.

I could never reproduce those colors or describe them because that would require me to produce something requires perceiving through the mind's eye instead of the physical eye into a color that can be perceived by the human physical eye. Essentially, it would be like trying to make someone hear a specific taste of a food. You're mixing the senses.

The colors we can perceive in dreams are NOT perceived through the physical eyes because our physical eyes are not being used in sleep. Therefore, what we "see" in our sleep is actually "seen" by our minds, and not our physical eyes.

Color is an electromagnetic frequency. There are no gaps in the light spectrum. This means that it is literally impossible to create any color that is new. Perceive it as different, yes, but see it as different, no. You may be able to create a color that you have never seen before, and it may evoke a strong emotional response, which could confuse oneself to think of it as new, but it is not.

Even if you go beyond visible light into infrared, ultraviolet, x-ray, gamma ray, etc., it isn't anything newly created.

Yes, it is created by your mind, but it is perceived as vision, which is not something that you can add to.