Thread: Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows

Originally Posted by Burns

Yeah Neville killing Nagini was an awesome moment! Only a true Gryffindor could pull THAT out of the hat

yes yes every one knows onlya a gryffindor could pull a rabbit out of a hat and kill nigini with it...




amzing book

Ok... how did the real Gryffindor sword get back into Hogwarts? Did the trolls head in there with it?

I LOVED the King's Cross bit. Reminded me of a lucid dream!

It is a real credit to Rawling that the book could have still been such a great read in spite of all the efforts to ruin it.

Yeah... details like "why not break the elder wand" are there throughout the stories - big gaping logic holes. That's never been her strong point. The world she created, the depth of her characters and her way of slowly revealing back story more than makes up for it.

I'm going to go back and re-read the last couple chapters. An awful lot of very subtle detail went into that final dialog between Harry and Riddle. I completely missed how the Elder want was actually under Draco's control and all that. (That's the sort of thing I usually wait for my wifeling to explain. She's in book 3 now - just finally decided to read them four days ago.)

Yeah, I had to reread Harry's discussion with Voldemort to understand about the Elder Wand. Basically...it goes back to Half Blood Prince, when Draco stuns Dumbledore and takes the Elder Wand from him. So Draco took the wand from its owner by force, and then becomes his, although he never actually owned or used it...it had decided Draco to be its new master. Then when Harry disarms Draco and takes his own wand from him at the Malfoy Manor, then Elder Wand passes into Harry's possession, even though Harry never actually took it or held it either. That's why he says to Voldemort, if your wand knows its last ownder was disarmed, then I am the rightful owner of the Elder Wand.

Hopefully that helps to explain it. And if I don't have it entirely right either, then someone feel free to correct me hehe.

Also, the Goblin never takes the sword back to Hogwarts. Neville pulled it out of the Sorting Hat, just like Harry did in the 2nd book. The sword way present itself to any Gryffindor it deems worthy. I was imagining little Griphook admiring the sword wherever he was, and it just disappears from him and reappears to Neville hehe. I agree that no one person can own the sword, it has no owner, since it can present itself to whoever it wants...it really is its own owner.

I was wondering what you guys thought about how the Goblins viewpoint, in that...something of theirs that is made and paid for by a witch/wizard should only be kept while that person is alive, and after that person dies, it should be returned to the Goblins. And they see the passing down of items to other family members, like the Goblin-made Tiarra, as theft. I had to think about it for a bit, and I wanted to hear what you guys thought of it.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

I was wondering what you guys thought about how the Goblins viewpoint, in that...something of theirs that is made and paid for by a witch/wizard should only be kept while that person is alive, and after that person dies, it should be returned to the Goblins. And they see the passing down of items to other family members, like the Goblin-made Tiarra, as theft. I had to think about it for a bit, and I wanted to hear what you guys thought of it.

I can kinda see where the Goblins are coming from on that one - but that's just not the way wizards see things. It's really a difference of race and the qualities they feel are important.

Wizards think money is important, and therefore think that by purchasing an item, that makes it theirs. But Goblins are of the mind that the creator is more important, and by crafting an item, it will always be theirs, no matter who pays how much gold for it.

I don't think the wizards and Goblins would ever come to an agreement about the "rightful" owner because of these differences in thought.

I just finished the book and needless to say I was blown away. Whenever it comes to the very end of any series I always get kinda sad, and just reflect on everything that's happened in the characters lives throughout the books. I'm weirdly empathetic in that sense. Especially that epilogue, jeez, I almost cried.

Everything built up amazingly; I was overwhelmed with excitement once they declared that Hogwarts had to be protected from Voldemort, just because I've always envisioned a giant war breaking out in the halls of our favourite fictional school. Everything past page 500 was bliss.

Fuck all you Harry Potter haters... you try and write seven books over a span of eight years and keep the same atmosphere and passion for the story. I think JK Rowling did a superb job.

Crazy, crazy... I'll add more to the discussion later when I'm not so short on time (and on vacation!).

Originally Posted by Aquanina

Hopefully that helps to explain it. And if I don't have it entirely right either, then someone feel free to correct me hehe.

Excellent explanation on all counts. It's still convoluted, but it makes sense.

I obviously missed a few bits at the end. Yet another reason to re-read at least the last couple chapters.

Thanks for going through it for me.

Expeliamus!
*bursts into flames*
OH gOD!

Okay I have limited time on this computer and desperately want to read your guys' replies but it will have to wait

Just wanted to mention that I hated the epilogue. I thought it spoiled the book, really. Just hated that last part!! I think she should have left those sorts of things to the imagination of the readers, and I thought it was silly and predictable that Harry's kids were named James Lily and Albus Severus.

Other than that OMG I loved it!!! I thought of Aquanina during the part where Snape's true role was revealed. Great prediction, girl!!

I really loved the book, and I'm glad it turned out the way it did. I really always felt for snape, as I'm sure most others have, and I wanted him to be good so much. When he was, I was very very happy. And, I really liked the Kings Cross part. It was all really a cool book.

Originally Posted by Gwendolyn

I really always felt for snape, as I'm sure most others have, and I wanted him to be good so much. When he was, I was very very happy.

To be honest, I still find it difficult to call Snape good. Was he really good? The only thing he ever cared about was Lily Potter. He loved her...that was all he knew. That was all he lived for. He didn't live to serve Voldemort, or Dumbledore. He wasn't bad, or good. He never joined Dumbledore because, it was the GOOD thing to do. He joined Dumbledore, so that Lily's death, her sacrifice would not have been in vain. He never cared about James or Harry. Only Lily. In fact...he hated James, and Harry. The only risks he took, the only sacrifices he made...were for his love of Lily, not his desire to be GOOD.

But that's just my take.

You know, I think if Snape wasn't such an idiot and kept hanging out with Death Eaters while in school, then he and Lily would have remained friends, and who knows...maybe they would have ended up together.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

To be honest, I still find it difficult to call Snape good. Was he really good? The only thing he ever cared about was Lily Potter. He loved her...that was all he knew. That was all he lived for. He didn't live to serve Voldemort, or Dumbledore. He wasn't bad, or good. He never joined Dumbledore because, it was the GOOD thing to do. He joined Dumbledore, so that Lily's death, her sacrifice would not have been in vain. He never cared about James or Harry. Only Lily. In fact...he hated James, and Harry. The only risks he took, the only sacrifices he made...were for his love of Lily, not his desire to be GOOD.

But that's just my take.

You know, I think if Snape wasn't such an idiot and kept hanging out with Death Eaters while in school, then he and Lily would have remained friends, and who knows...maybe they would have ended up together.

Snape is Good. He is just a flawed multi-dimensional character. He stopped being a death eater when lily died and he came to Dumbledore to fight against Voldemort.As much as he dislikes, he helps him out. Snape had a grudge against James, not harry. Harry just pisses Snape off, because he is so much like his father. Snape is arguably one of the bravest characters in the book since he is able to stop his death eater ways, and fight the good fight. Of course his skill oclumency(how do you spell that?) probably helped.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

To be honest, I still find it difficult to call Snape good. Was he really good? The only thing he ever cared about was Lily Potter.

I think that Snape realised when Lily was killed by Voldemort, exactly what the Death Eaters were doing to so many people, taking away their loved ones. Maybe that reformed him and made him see the 'good' path, and join Dumbledore.
At the end, it's obvious that he did care about Dumbledore and even Harry, as he had no reason to give Harry the personal memories that he did except that he cared what Harry thought of him.
I'd certainly like to think that Snape was consciously good.

I think that Dudley telling Harry what he Really thought took guts.

Was anyone else surprised that mollly weasly killed Bella with "Avada Keadurva"?

Originally Posted by A dreamer168

Was anyone else surprised that mollly weasly killed Bella with "Avada Keadurva"?

Absolutely not, wasn't that after Fred had been killed and when Bellatrix was duelling with Ginny?

All I know is Ginny almost got hit with the Killing curse herself.
It dosen't sound like the thing Molly would do!

Originally Posted by Aquanina

To be honest, I still find it difficult to call Snape good. Was he really good? The only thing he ever cared about was Lily Potter. He loved her...that was all he knew. That was all he lived for. He didn't live to serve Voldemort, or Dumbledore. He wasn't bad, or good. He never joined Dumbledore because, it was the GOOD thing to do. He joined Dumbledore, so that Lily's death, her sacrifice would not have been in vain. He never cared about James or Harry. Only Lily. In fact...he hated James, and Harry. The only risks he took, the only sacrifices he made...were for his love of Lily, not his desire to be GOOD.

But that's just my take.

You know, I think if Snape wasn't such an idiot and kept hanging out with Death Eaters while in school, then he and Lily would have remained friends, and who knows...maybe they would have ended up together.

Well, I think he did cause an awful lot of trouble, and could have prevented a lot, and he wasn't good in the traditional sense, but he did help, even if his motivation was slightly less than heroic. He ended up being a real help to Harry's success. I think the fact that he loved Lily so much makes him seem more three dimensional, and even if that was his only motivation to do well, he still did as best as he could have, without ditching his 'snape' persona.

I've got to say after reading this one it was my favorite. In order I'd rate them, from best to worst, 7, 6, 3, 5, 4, 2, 1.

And yes, Snape is GOOD. He showed remorse. I always knew he was good, from the very start. I knew he was a prick, too. He's like that racist cop from Crash, basically. Yeah, and he was ALWAYS my favorite character, too.

Originally Posted by Lord Toaster

At the end, it's obvious that he did care about Dumbledore and even Harry, as he had no reason to give Harry the personal memories that he did except that he cared what Harry thought of him.

Well I took that as being largely because Dumbledore's last mission to him was to tell Harry that he was a Horcrux; something that he urgently attempted whenever he was present at the end of the book.

But yeah, I think overall he was very good and brave, but totally stupid about the Dark Arts.

Haha...I've read the book twice now and listened to the audio book about 5 times. I think you're all so excited to believe that Snape is really good...that you're blind to some important truths.

If Snape never loved Lily Potter...you think he EVER would have left Lord Voldemort?

Snape is...a very complex character, that goes far beyond any definition of "good" or "bad". You need to understand his motivation.

You forget...when Snape becomes upset when he finds out that Harry must die and Dumbledore asks if Snape has actually developed a caring for Harry. And he becomes furious and shouts...FOR HIM? And conjures his doe patronis. And Dumbledore says, even after all these years? And he says, always. It was ALWAYS and ONLY about Lily. He NEVER cared about Harry. In fact, he enjoyed torturing him in and out of his classes through most of the books.

But you all seem so happy to believe that Snape is truly good, I'll let you all think that hehe. :p

I never claimed he was truly good. Dumbledore is selfish, Harry Potter is a little wrathful, jealous, and completely ran by his emotions. Kreacher is a little prick. I see it as Severus didn't choose the dark arts, they chose him. He was slytherin because he had a mind for darker arts like occlumency. He was sort of brought into a pure-blood loving world, but when he was younger he didn't see a difference. It was Lily that in fact planted the seed of doubt in him that would make him remorseful in the end. He knew what he did was wrong at that point, he wasn't just acting out of obsession anymore. Severus was truly regretful, and he knew protecting Harry Potter was the oath he owed for a lifetime of servitude of Voldemort. Whether he had beed charged with protecting Harry or not, after Lily was killed he would have still turned against Voldemort. Dumbledore was quick to catch him and tell him he was more use as a spy.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

Haha...I've read the book twice now and listened to the audio book about 5 times. I think you're all so excited to believe that Snape is really good...that you're blind to some important truths.

If Snape never loved Lily Potter...you think he EVER would have left Lord Voldemort?


:p

No, but that is the point. his love for lily was his saving grace. it tore him away from the "darkside" and allowed him to become a good person. But Snape was still a proud slytherin, too proud to allow his compassion to show. ( he made Dumbledore promise not to tell) This is why he acts like such a bastard to everyone. but in his heart he is truly good.

Originally Posted by Led

but in his heart he is truly good.

I'd prefer to say...that in his heart...he was truly not bad.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

I'd prefer to say...that in his heart...he was truly not bad.

well yeah, he's no angel.

Originally Posted by Xei

Well I took that as being largely because Dumbledore's last mission to him was to tell Harry that he was a Horcrux; something that he urgently attempted whenever he was present at the end of the book.

Yes, he gave Harry those memories, but he also gave Harry personal memories of himself as a young boy, in love with Lily, and other memories that Harry didn't really need to know but that showed that Snape had led a rather wretched existence, and had done the right thing in the end.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

I'd prefer to say...that in his heart...he was truly not bad.

Yes.