Thread: Gays in the military

Originally Posted by Torriatte

Your logic is quite flawed. You made the IF / THEN statement and did not back it up with anything but your OWN personal bias and hatred for those who don't embrace YOUR diversity!

If you are really enlightened and open minded, you would gladly allow me my opinions without calling me names, and trying to marginalize me.
Therefore you must be gay, since you so actively defend the opposite position. Therefore nothing I can say or do will ever change your mind about what you are "entitled" to.....can it?

Oh, the irony.

This guy is too easy.

Originally Posted by Torriatte

But let's answer YOUR question...shall we? Well actually it's your statement that I am assuming that people have issues with gays because they fear being RAPED by them. Trust me pal....that's not the issue here, much as you want it to be. It's a matter of safety and security. Use my example of the guy in the girls shower. It's not about him RAPING them....no.....just him being in there with them would make them VERY uncomfortable, even if he was tied to a chair and couldn't move. Just being vulnerable and knowing that someone "could be" fantasizing about you, when you're standing naked in front of them...is enough to make this not about fear of rape, but about TOLERANCE, and SENSITIVITY. Perhaps when the tolerance thing is working against what YOU want it's not quite so important is it?

But then again, that's equally irrational.

Originally Posted by Alric

This would close the loophole of people claiming their gay to get out of the military, in case of a draft.

Crap, that was my fall back plan! I am going to support DADT for the sole reason of staying off the Army's elligible bachellor list.

P.S. What is the name of that parody news station? It was fairly funny.

It's called the Onion News Network. They're pretty amazing.

Originally Posted by Mark75

It's called the Onion News Network. They're pretty amazing.

Cool, thanks. No affiliation with 'The Onion' online journal?

Originally Posted by Torriatte

If you have gays in the military....who will be permitted to shower with the straight men, or with other gay men...then you MUST also allow the straight men to shower with the women.

To my knowledge, men and women on active military duty aren't allowed to shower together, and yet there are still "gay" males in the military permitted to shower with heterosexual men. Your conclusion is false because your conclusion stated the contrary, which is false. However, if your usage of the term "MUST" meant "should," then you committed a naturalistic fallacy instead.

Let's be consistent here. The main thing about gays in the military is the fact that it's pretty damn uncomfortable to be showering and bunking with a dude who wants to do you in the ass, if even in his own thoughts. It's a distraction. When I see co-ed showers...then I'll be ok with the gay thing too.

What are you implying here? If there are co-ed showers, then you'll be OK with gays? Would you not be more distracted showering with girls than if you were showering with gays? It's very unlikely the majority of men would not be more distracted showering with girls than if they had done so with gays. Also, how does co-ed showering have anything to do with this if the issue is about gay men being distractions? A c00l c0mprimise?

Originally Posted by Torriatte

Hmmm.....that's a pretty elementary debating tactic, demanding that I provide proof of an EVERY. I suppose Obama proved that all the Arizona cops would be pulling over innocent Mexicans while eating ice cream with their parents?? It just doesn't work that way in the real world. You don't ever have to prove an EVERY. I never said anything about EVERY. If even ONE soldier feels intimidated or uncomfortable in the bunkhouse or in the shower, that's all the proof I need.

No, it's quite the contrary. You used the label "gays" in the military,which implies all "gays" in the military[1], and because your stance is against all gays in the military, you must therefore prove that EVERY "gay" soldier wants to fuck another soldier in the ass, for some people in the forum to believe your conclusion as true.

The only thing I'm stating is that for the same reason you can't have men and women sharing the showers, you can't have gay and straight men sharing the showers

This statement is inconsistent with your earlier argument, that stated if gay men and straight men (active in the military) are permitted to shower together, then men and women (active in the military) MUST be permitted to shower with each other.

Let's take it a step further. Let's pretend that at your school....YOU were allowed to shower with the girls....just so long as you don't touch them or make any sexual suggestive statements. You're basically allowed to shower with them, and observe them. Do you think the girls would have no issues with that...just so long as they were not being raped in the showers? Or...do you think it would just make them uncomfortable and feel violated?

This is beside the point. Also, without actually knowing what would happen, he would just be speculating. Also, if you're implying that if any girl does take a shower with a men in a social institution, and will feel uncomfortable doing so, which is distracting, then, again, you're being inconsistent, as your earlier argument that was flawed suggested that "straight" men in the military should be permitted to shower with women.... because gays were distracting. (lol)

You have tolerance issues....not about gay men, but about straight men, and their RIGHT to exist in a non intimidating environment in the armed forces.
That is what makes "don't ask, don't tell" work. We all know that once you know someone is gay, you think differently about them. This is just human nature....so having OPENLY gay men in the bunkhouse would be a distraction...and I don't need to prove anything to you about all gays. Nice try.

First, in the armed forces there is unlikely to be an "environment" that isn't intimidating to the men and women that serve in it. Second, someone doesn't have tolerance issues just because they support the continuation of gay men attending the military.


You've just been raped.


[1] Homosexual males

malac if I could thank your post more than once you'd have a shitload of thanks right now.
Torriatte: Grow a dick man. I know more than one homosexual person and they deserve equal rights too.

Originally Posted by Alric

This would close the loophole of people claiming their gay to get out of the military, in case of a draft.

If they are desperate enough to reinstitute a draft, then I doubt they would care. Besides, you can always just go to Canada and wait for the pardon.

Oh, Canada,
Our home and native land,
True patriot love,
In all thy sons command...

Why Canada, always Canada. Don't you want to go to Mexico or something...

Or even...

*shudders*

...leave North America?

Originally Posted by Xei

Or even...

*shudders*

...leave North America?

But we don't have the technology to get to Mars yet!

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Why Canada, always Canada. Don't you want to go to Mexico or something...

Cause Canada is similar enough to the U.S. for us to be comfortable. Plus we speak English already. And we don't have to get on a plane and draw attention to ourselves. Canada's low crime rate and high employment percentage is also appealing- far more than Mexico. I am considering this heavily because, should DADT be repealed, I need a new contigency.

Yeah but who says we want a bunch of illegal draft dodging Americans coming here . This must be how Americans feel about Mexicans jumping their border. I guess we can always emigrate to the North Pole...

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Yeah but who says we want a bunch of illegal draft dodging Americans coming here . This must be how Americans feel about Mexicans jumping their border. I guess we can always emigrate to the North Pole...

Well, I don't know if you want us in Canada, but that doesn't change the fact that I'd rather be in Vancouver than carrying an M16. So... there's that. Sorry if it's selfish. :/

Originally Posted by spockman

Well, I don't know if you want us in Canada, but that doesn't change the fact that I'd rather be in Vancouver than carrying an M16. So... there's that. Sorry if it's selfish. :/

Well if you're immigrating here through proper channels then more power to you, but if you're just jumping the border illegally and mooching off of our taxes and infrastructure, then no you're not invited. I mean come on you're robbing us...

I haz a passport and AS degree. Can I come in?

Although I have expressed a great deal of support for the U.S. military here, I recognize that it is a cesspool for violence obsessed meat heads. I'm glad it is, though. We need them. Now, such people are extremely homophobic in most cases. If the presence of homosexuals would really throw off their combat mojo, then the ban is understandable... almost. The point of the military is to win wars and scare the shit out of tyrants. I don't want anything screwing that up. We are talking about the military, where people leave many of their rights at the door when they join. It is an exclusive club, not society in general. The leaders should be allowed to discriminate as they see fit... to win wars and scare the shit out of tyrants. If they were to keep me out because I'm an atheist or because I have an attention deficit, I would understand. It's the military, not a public park.

However, I don't think the presence of open homosexuals is a threat to military performance. Seriously, how many homosexuals out there are insane enough to join the U.S. military and tell their platoons that they are gay? Think about that picture and relate it to the soap beating scene in Full Metal Jacket. The extremely rare person who has balls that big would be a complete bad ass, and the military could make great use of him. Not a problem.

By the way, they shouldn't allow heterosexuals in Congress.

Originally Posted by Mario92

I haz a passport and AS degree. Can I come in?

Americans can stay in Canada for a max of 6 months without going through some kind of immigration process. You need a work permit to work here though.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Americans can stay in Canada for a max of 6 months without going through some kind of immigration process. You need a work permit to work here though.

You racist!

We don't take kindly to yer kind here southna'!

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Well if you're immigrating here through proper channels then more power to you, but if you're just jumping the border illegally and mooching off of our taxes and infrastructure, then no you're not invited. I mean come on you're robbing us...

I'm just kidding, really. I wouldn't jump the border to avoid the draft. Still, if I loose my get out of selective service free card, (homosexuality,) I need to find a new one.

Just say you're a communist.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Just say you're a communist.

Haha. Unfortunately, that doesn't work anymore. We let them commies in our army nowadays. Besides, if I gave up on women for awhile, well, that could be looked over by da' chicks. But give up on capitalism? No, I could never forgive myself.