Originally Posted by Torriatte
If you have gays in the military....who will be permitted to shower with the straight men, or with other gay men...then you MUST also allow the straight men to shower with the women.
To my knowledge, men and women on active military duty aren't allowed to shower together, and yet there are still "gay" males in the military permitted to shower with heterosexual men. Your conclusion is false because your conclusion stated the contrary, which is false. However, if your usage of the term "MUST" meant "should," then you committed a naturalistic fallacy instead.
Let's be consistent here. The main thing about gays in the military is the fact that it's pretty damn uncomfortable to be showering and bunking with a dude who wants to do you in the ass, if even in his own thoughts. It's a distraction. When I see co-ed showers...then I'll be ok with the gay thing too.
What are you implying here? If there are co-ed showers, then you'll be OK with gays? Would you not be more distracted showering with girls than if you were showering with gays? It's very unlikely the majority of men would not be more distracted showering with girls than if they had done so with gays. Also, how does co-ed showering have anything to do with this if the issue is about gay men being distractions? A c00l c0mprimise?
Originally Posted by Torriatte
Hmmm.....that's a pretty elementary debating tactic, demanding that I provide proof of an EVERY. I suppose Obama proved that all the Arizona cops would be pulling over innocent Mexicans while eating ice cream with their parents?? It just doesn't work that way in the real world. You don't ever have to prove an EVERY. I never said anything about EVERY. If even ONE soldier feels intimidated or uncomfortable in the bunkhouse or in the shower, that's all the proof I need.
No, it's quite the contrary. You used the label "gays" in the military,which implies all "gays" in the military[1], and because your stance is against all gays in the military, you must therefore prove that EVERY "gay" soldier wants to fuck another soldier in the ass, for some people in the forum to believe your conclusion as true.
The only thing I'm stating is that for the same reason you can't have men and women sharing the showers, you can't have gay and straight men sharing the showers
This statement is inconsistent with your earlier argument, that stated if gay men and straight men (active in the military) are permitted to shower together, then men and women (active in the military) MUST be permitted to shower with each other.
Let's take it a step further. Let's pretend that at your school....YOU were allowed to shower with the girls....just so long as you don't touch them or make any sexual suggestive statements. You're basically allowed to shower with them, and observe them. Do you think the girls would have no issues with that...just so long as they were not being raped in the showers? Or...do you think it would just make them uncomfortable and feel violated?
This is beside the point. Also, without actually knowing what would happen, he would just be speculating. Also, if you're implying that if any girl does take a shower with a men in a social institution, and will feel uncomfortable doing so, which is distracting, then, again, you're being inconsistent, as your earlier argument that was flawed suggested that "straight" men in the military should be permitted to shower with women.... because gays were distracting. (lol)
You have tolerance issues....not about gay men, but about straight men, and their RIGHT to exist in a non intimidating environment in the armed forces.
That is what makes "don't ask, don't tell" work. We all know that once you know someone is gay, you think differently about them. This is just human nature....so having OPENLY gay men in the bunkhouse would be a distraction...and I don't need to prove anything to you about all gays. Nice try.
First, in the armed forces there is unlikely to be an "environment" that isn't intimidating to the men and women that serve in it. Second, someone doesn't have tolerance issues just because they support the continuation of gay men attending the military.
You've just been raped.
[1] Homosexual males
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