Thread: Occupy Dreamviews

Originally Posted by louie54

I can't argue with you there.

Spoiler for off topic:

But I was just saying that in some situations, these people aren't always 100% innocent. I've seen this a couple of times on TV: on one of our local stations they run this program where this average middle-class person tells their story of how they've been fucked over recently by the city or some company and I remember this one lady was on that was being threatened with foreclosure or something (I can't really remember) because she wouldn't pay some bill. Her story just wasn't adding up and it seemed like she was trying to avoid taking responsibility for her own fuck up.

This is a different story though which is why I said "would normally lead me to believe" in my last post. I do stand by these people.

Firstly, I think people are equating an education with formalized schooling which is a misnomer. I think you learn more outside of school then in it especially when you witness the zombie students who show up to class but don't participate or include themselves in the discussion. They treat it like survival, they are just there to get a degree. I see a point in going to school for something like physics, biology, fields of the natural science that take formalized training for but I don't see a point for some of the softer sciences. I am a graduate student for history and I will be the first to admit that you don't need to go to college for a bachelor's in history. It is something you can learn by yourself. The only reason I am in the program is because I need to have formal credentials to be a PhD candidate which is something I just have to do. I think what we are really missing is the ability to apprentice. Apart from general education classes (which are useless) that is really what college is, you apprenticing. Businesses themselves can do that if you are in the commercial market. You don't need to go 30k into debt to do that either.

Juroara, concerning your sister that is just ridiculous. 70k for a bachelor's degree? What college is it? And why they hell is she taking loans out at a 20% rate? That is just stupidity.

Ninja, what state does your friend live in because to my knowledge, all you need to do in many of the states is have a bachelor's degree unless you are trying to be an adjunct professor at a community college? People who are in secondary education usually get master degree's because it PAYS more not because they necessarily need it.

Originally Posted by cmind

You want free education? You'll get what you pay for.

You know what I mean. Tax funded education. Tax funded schools.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

I don't think very many people support free education, it's the unfair cost and interest rates that are being protested. A good education in the USA costs about $30,000. A good education in England is set at about 4000 pounds, and there is a government cap on how much they can charge. The schools aren't necessarily any better here, Oxford is considered one of the top schools in the world.

First, I've seen heaps of people at the protests talking about education and the fact that the cost is too high because it's privatised, and it should be free.
Second, it depends on what kind of education you want to have. Some courses cost well over a hundred thousands dollars.
These are mostly the science courses, which are the most important ones of pretty much any course available (in terms of benefit to society). But also things like architecture (yep, wtf? right).

Originally Posted by tommo

You know what I mean. Tax funded education. Tax funded schools.


First, I've seen heaps of people at the protests talking about education and the fact that the cost is too high because it's privatised, and it should be free.
Second, it depends on what kind of education you want to have. Some courses cost well over a hundred thousands dollars.
These are mostly the science courses, which are the most important ones of pretty much any course available (in terms of benefit to society). But also things like architecture (yep, wtf? right).

I've not seem much of that at all. I think most people like the European model. The cost of a degree should be relative to the starting salary. I have a nice cheap bachelor's degree, but fresh out of school, I made twice what a teacher with a master's degree makes.

And in response to the marine yelling "these people don't have guns' why are you hurting them?" Cacophony pasted this on her FB, thought it was fitting

Originally Posted by Laughing Man

Juroara, concerning your sister that is just ridiculous. 70k for a bachelor's degree? What college is it? And why they hell is she taking loans out at a 20% rate? That is just stupidity.

she was going to UTSA and at the time it was one of the most expensive colleges *architecture*. Its also one of the most stressful on students, second only to those studying to be doctors. Its not uncommon for students to be at the studio working until 6am. Not only were the classes expensive, but so were the books, and the models and projects. I know because I worked at the art supply store! The higher years would spend easily $300 on a single project. Because of the expensive projects, many students have to take out extra loans not to pay for their class, but to pay for supplies for the class. These are private loans.

The other problem my sister had was that she was an unconventional student. She didn't enter college right after highschool, she worked for several years at first. When she decided it was time to pursue her passion, the government decided her income was too high so she had to take out private loans again to finish off the year. Its really retarded because the government goes by your income LAST YEAR, rather than your current income. Her current income at the time, could not afford school. Thus - take out loans.

As for the interest, she didnt have a choice. That was all that was offered to her probably because they knew they could do that to architect students. Some of those loans have kicked in even though shes still going to school *which is why its so high*.

On top of that, the graduating rate for architect students at UTSA at the time was something only like...1/4. You had to compete to enter into your third year, and they only took a certain number of students. This meant several students never got in, and gave up after trying numerous times - leaving them with debt they couldn't pay off.

Frustrated with how UTSA handled its architect students she went to UTA instead because they accept anyone, first come first serve. But they did not accept all of her classes - which is bull - so she had to spend even more money to catch up - even though she didnt need to. Its a long complicated story and there is more to it. But really, the univeristy system has made it more challenging than necessary and has lots of hidden fees.

I call architect students racoons because their eyes are black!