Thread: Stepping in to the Fire

Pretty inspiring documentary on a Wall St. stock trader who has opened an Ayahuasca....clinic, I suppose, in the Amazon.

Only a couple of things I didn't agree with, like what the shaman said about hippies, although it is largely true. But nonetheless, it's a great documentary. It is available free, legally.

http://steppingintothefire.com/index.php

http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documentary/watch-online/play/8339/Stepping-into-the-Fire

What did the Shaman say about hippies? Something like they like to run around cherry-picking those parts of various religions that give them a warm, fuzzy feeling while ignoring the parts that make them look long and hard at their own shortcomings? That most of them are a bunch of lying addicts always chasing the next buzz and using "spirituality" to justify their behavior? That they have a penchant for learning enough about spiritual system to make women think they're "deep" and have sex with them?

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

What did the Shaman say about hippies?

He basically said that they didn't actually cherish nature, they just cherished some idea they had of it.
He also said they just smoked marijuana and didn't learn anything.
And that is why there are none left.

I take issue with it because some of them definitely did cherish nature and want to "get in touch" with it, and
They didn't just smoke marijuana for fun.
Further, the only reason anyone in the West even has any knowledge whatsoever of DMT/Ayahuasca is because of the hippy movement and
people like Terrence McKenna going to the Amazon and Africa and other parts of the world to discover their medicines.
None of that would have happened without the hippy movement.

I do see where you're coming from Omnis, but you can't just apply blanket statements to whole groups of people.
The hippy movement did not come and go. It is still here and it changed the course of our culture for the better.
There would be no green movement were it not for the hippy movement.
It is not dead.

Yes there were a lot of them who just wanted to get fucked up and there were a lot of people who, because of lack of tradition behind the drugs they were taking, did not find answers from the drugs but instead just ruined their lives, had bad experiences etc.

I think the only reason people become addicted to drugs is that very reason, no tradition or culture behind it all and therefore no respect for the drug's power.
It is obvious when looking at tobacco and alcohol here. Tobacco being more relevant to the discussion. Indians did not get addicted to tobacco, they used it for a purpose. We found it and got high off it and got addicted; we used it as a vice.
Indians got alcohol from us and the same thing happened to them.
Of course no culture has any real traditions or history or respect for alcohol, so it will fuck up any culture it is introduced to.

However, some hippies DID respect the drugs of the time and they did learn a lot.

Originally Posted by tommo

Further, the only reason anyone in the West even has any knowledge whatsoever of DMT/Ayahuasca is because of the hippy movement and
people like Terrence McKenna going to the Amazon and Africa and other parts of the world to discover their medicines.
None of that would have happened without the hippy movement.

Your point being? What good has come of that? All I see is hippies getting themselves confused on DMT.

The hippy movement did not come and go. It is still here and it changed the course of our culture for the better.

They're definitely still here. They're where all the best weed comes from.

There would be no green movement were it not for the hippy movement.
It is not dead.

The "green movement" began at about the same time as hippies and is largely orthogonal to lying addicts fucking in the woods. So what does it have to do with hippies?

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

Your point being? What good has come of that? All I see is hippies getting themselves confused on DMT.

My point was the shaman said it was a useless movement but that is the only reason why anyone even knows about Ayahuasca, which he places so highly above other drugs.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

The "green movement" began at about the same time as hippies and is largely orthogonal to lying addicts fucking in the woods. So what does it have to do with hippies?

I'm pretty sure they were the ones protesting to end reliance on oil and invest in renewable energy, so the entire green movement has EVERYTHING to do with hippies. It, like Eastern traditions, would not be here if it weren't for them.

Originally Posted by tommo

My point was the shaman said it was a useless movement but that is the only reason why anyone even knows about Ayahuasca, which he places so highly above other drugs.

Your point being? Maybe he doesn't want people using Ayahuasca outside the context of a consistent system of interpreting the associated sensations.

I'm pretty sure they were the ones protesting to end reliance on oil and invest in renewable energy, so the entire green movement has EVERYTHING to do with hippies. It, like Eastern traditions, would not be here if it weren't for them.

I'm pretty sure that "eastern" systems were already making headway in the west during the early twentieth century and were being introduced by actual practitioners and western academics. Are you sure that the "green movement" wasn't started by scientists who were the ones who recognized a problem? Maybe the hippies were just there to get high and laid?

I haven't gotten to the part about hippies nor would I use that definition you provided to describe every hippy (though it certainly describes a prevalent number of them) but dude, are you watching the video or are you trying to rant about hippies because there's a thread for that already.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

I haven't gotten to the part about hippies nor would I use that definition you provided to describe every hippy (though it certainly describes a prevalent number of them) but dude, are you watching the video or are you trying to rant about hippies because there's a thread for that already.

Can I get a link?

http://www.dreamviews.com/f16/rant-r...mplain-114810/

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

http://www.dreamviews.com/f16/rant-r...mplain-114810/

He was hoping for "Rip on hippies".

....

EDIT: lolirony

From that thread:

Another forum I frequent has a thread set aside for people who need to vent or go on long-winded rants about whatever it is that's on their mind;it's fairly interesting to read so I thought I may as well start a similar thread here.

I would hardly call my rant long-winded. Also, that thread's not about hippies, it's just a general complaint thread. I was expecting a thread just for knocking hippies.

on topic

I actually completely agree with the what the shaman said about hippies. They had the drugs and they invented a philosophy based upon these drugs but they didn't have any of the sacred traditions and knowledge necessary to truly understand the process. The hippy movement came and left because their ideas were not sustainable. The shaman is saying, similar to what PhilospherStoned said, you can't cherry pick certain ideas. If you're going to delve into a tradition, you gotta take the whole thing. You have to prepare yourself with the same foundation that these shamans do in ritual.

The key aspect of this film is that Ayahuasca is not a savior, it's a teacher. After using it, one must take the lessons they learned and apply them. For instance the drug addict learned he only need food, water and shelter and all the others thing, which he feels like he needs, are completely unnecessary to his well-being. Now that he understands he doesn't need them, he still has to work through his addictions. The PTSD guy didn't say his trauma is over, he said it was his intention to leave it behind, and to move on. He will still be forever changed by his experiences, but now he understands that life goes on and he can let it go. Sometimes you just need to know, the that's what ayahuasca is for.

You're right, the movement in the 60s did open the western world up to the native cultures and traditions, now it's time to use that tool and apply some discipline.

PhilosopherStoned, have you watched the video or are you still just trying to bitch about hippies?

My lingering question in watching this is... why are so many people so in need of healing? This shouldn't be some great gift we may become privy to, pending opportunity to drink the right tea. We shouldn't have ever gotten this deeply in need of reality in the first place. The modern world is a psychological minefield.

*view from my lacking perspective, business as usual.

Originally Posted by IndieAnthias

My lingering question in watching this is... why are so many people so in need of healing? This shouldn't be some great gift we may become privy to, pending opportunity to drink the right tea. We shouldn't have ever gotten this deeply in need of reality in the first place. The modern world is a psychological minefield.

*view from my lacking perspective, business as usual.

That's a very good question indeed and I agree with what you said completely.

The modern lifestyle is incredibly taxing on the mind. At least for 90% of people, maybe more.

I'm at a point where I'm stuck between choosing one of the two ways of living.

I think this modern world is great in a lot of ways. Lots of things to do, we've created amazing inventions, medicine, knowledge of the universe etc.

However the traditional ways of living seem to offer a lot more in the way of living a happy and mentally and physically healthy life, despite not having all the modern inventions that are supposed to make our lives easier.

I especially agree with what the Shaman said about how comforts make humans weak.

I find the heroin addict's story to be especially relevant to that question, Indie. It's a very pertinent question. When did we lose touch? When did we separate ourselves from the world around us? Why do we need very special medicine to find it again?

yeah... I mean I see that there's no "reason", least not one that's going to be very satisfying in the short term. But the gravity of the situation gets impressive at times.

I really liked what the shaman said about studying human evolutionary history. I think that I'm following that path, at least.

It's more extreme conservatives that believe in the Illuminati. Also, you're acting like the term voting middle class is somehow mutually exclusive from the term hippy. Not all hippies fall into the lazy stoner category you have confined them in. Not even the majority. There's already a word for the category of people you are describing. Pothead.

When I saw this title my first thought was "Why would there be a thread in ED about very stupid WoW players?"

lulwut? I've never played WoW so I guess I don't get the reference lol

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

Politicians don't give a fuck what hippies think either. Hippies are generally to busy getting stoned and worrying about the illuminati to vote. It is the responsible, voting middle class pushing for ecological responsibility that makes a differince, not hippies. The environment isn't much more to them then an excuse to get stoned and laid. They do more to hurt the movement (and the reputability of things like Buddhism) than they do to help it.

And yeah pretty much what Omnis said. I would consider myself a hippy in some ways. But I'm not just smoking weed everyday and getting laid and mooching off people.

Just like you could say a Wall St. stock trader is a fucking useless human being who does nothing productive yet makes millions of dollars, (if they're good), but look at the guy in this movie.

Originally Posted by tommo

lulwut? I've never played WoW so I guess I don't get the reference lol

Idiot players step into the fire or stand in the fire, hence the common in-game catchphrase of "get out of the fire!".

[Insert 'The More You Know' image here]

PhilosopherStoned's other identity:

haha! I was thinking that too.

I'mma go ahead and bump this err I mean <insert useless post so it won't be perceived as a bump>