Could the Economic Collapse have been deliberate?

[Original Poster]

Because the point got cut short I thought it was important to give this topic a thread of it's own. The has been circling around fringe and truther groups for quite a while but the question here is what evidence of there is there the bankers were not simply running around with their heads up their asses following easy money in a corrupt system but were actually part of a deliberate scheme to put the country back into a recession, just has been done before, so that the masses are required to sell over more of their vital resources over to the select few in order overcome the problem. Let's start at step one, the financial establishment which is based on imaginary money, not at the fault of the gold standard but at the fault of the system of saving and lending itself. Even when we still had a gold standard, banks profited based on a fragile balance of payments on loans and withdrawals from accounts because 90% of the money they're supposedly holding for you is loaned out. For this reason, a very precise crediting process allows the banks to run their casino with at least the proper 51% margin of return. When creditors are allowed to circumvent this infrastructure and give out loans that they do not expect to be paid back, there is only one word for it, predatory. It disenfranchises the integrity of the banking system. This should be considered foolish and criminal behavior but it may be that the economy is unbalanced intentionally in order to court the general population deeper into debt and concentrate power within the central banking families. Power is not just money, which they already control. Power is food, water and energy. Whenever we plunge into a depression or recession, the solution ended up being to hand over more control of these vital resources to a more concentrated power. As everything closes, the banks sweep all the properties up and sure, they lost their loans but they made the money up in the first place. That's where are current monetary system comes into play. The Fed also enables them to invent money in response to this problem of losing the money they don't have so they can keep the collateral AND steal back their losses from the general population using inflation. This means that whenever we hit a recession, they not only get bailed out so they can keep lending but they get to swoop up all the lost properties in the process. This, specifically, has led to the destruction of the family farm and the arrival of the devastation known as monocropping and the Private Seed. The control of food, water and energy by the banking families motivated the IMFs terrorist activity in South America as well as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Either through debt or through destruction, these resources are purchased or occupied. While most upper echelons of power may panic at the thought of economic collapse or shun the idea of war, this is how "need to know" works. You do not need to be in favor of their principles or in on their plan in order to be an agent for it. No one, in any circumstance, should agree to do something if they're not aware of the consequences of their actions. Unfortunately this has become our warfare and our way of life. Without real transparency and accountability, freedom is nothing more than a Weasel Word, a false sellpoint. How can Americans hold onto freedom if they're so economically devastated their only chance at recovery is accommodating to the social infrastructure of China? Where is the revolution then? When we have no one to go conquer and we're left to starve or steal because we're so in debt, our own resources extracted along with our opportunity, what will our next step be?

[ninja9578]

It's very possible. Traders have said over and over again on television that they are making a fortune off of the unstable economy. They don't care about the bailout. Someone find that video form the other thread, I can't find it. That said, I don't think it was intentional. The housing bubble was a way to make a lot of money really fast, and they figured they'd all be retired by the time it collapsed. Europe on the other hand was on purpose. Goldman Sachs knew how far in debt Greece was, and they knew helping them hide that was illegal and would cause an eventual breakdown. I mean, how could they not?

[Original Poster]

In any circumstance where the crediting system is circumvented, there is no excuse. That's a deliberate destabilization of the economy. Whether everyone knew what was going on, by the very fact alone that the market was deregulated and the lenders were given approval to begin these predatory procedures, we know the crash was deliberate in the United States. This cycle has been repeating itself for years. The banks lend at lower interest rates to create a boom and then exhaust the population's purchasing power to create a bust. The banks killed the family farm in order to gain complete control over our food supply.

[mcwillis]

Firstly watch the BBC interview with this stock trader and then then the second very funny, and also very serious commentary of the BBC interview by one of America's finest radio talk show hosts (-:

[Descensus]

Firstly watch the BBC interview with this stock trader and then then the second very funny, and also very serious commentary of the BBC interview by one of America's finest radio talk show hosts (-: Ehhh I don't know if I'd call somebody like Alex Jones one of America's finest *anythings*.

[Original Poster]

Fear-monger Lunatic Libertarian Discreditor

[mcwillis]

Ehhh I don't know if I'd call somebody like Alex Jones one of America's finest *anythings*. Fear-monger Lunatic Libertarian Discreditor I used to think he was a fear-mongering alarmist but after having watched a lot of his films and listened to his three hour daily radio show regularly for about a year I have had to reluctantly admit that just about everything he has talked about in the past has come true. His guests are sources of information that you simply cannot get anywhere else. As examples the interview he had with Lindsey Williams last December was just explosive and I am really looking forward to last night's interview with Ray McGovern, former CIA analyst who prepared Ronald Reagan's daily intelligence brief. And he is considered to be one of the finest, level headed, informed news broadcasters as this interview on Russia Today clearly shows (-:

[Original Poster]

Not everything. The only crazy thing I can think of off the top of my head (it's been a while since I've paid attention to him) is that the Elite are trying to flood the streets with DMT so they can open a portal to the machine elves. He uses too much speculation and doesn't have enough experience to know when he's off his rocker. And by yelling about crazy speculation, he discredits the revolutionary movement to take back control from the Elite and their Propaganda Machine. He works right into their hands, making it appear to people that you have to be crazy like him to believe there's something wrong with the world.

[tommo]

I really am not sure. I don't know if there could really be any evidence either, unless someone had tapes somewhere of them discussing it. Tbh, I really just don't think any of them are that smart. That's really all there is to my argument. I don't think that sort of thing can be orchestrated. Also, this sort of thing would take a long time to set up. All this bullshit added on to our economic system is obviously just there so that people can exploit it. But I don't think it's a group of people who got these things like inflation etc. in to our system hoping to get rich from it and keep everyone else poor. It just takes way too long, they would have to have some sort of long term goals like keeping their family rich forever, but they would be dead by the time that started playing out, or at least close to it, I just don't see it happening for some reason. But then again there are people that wanted their royal family to keep being royal (and rich). So maybe it's just the way I think, because I see no point in ensuring my families wealth years after I'm gone. I'm very open minded about it. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if it was on purpose. But I also am not sure that it was. It would be very interesting if it was though. lol Regarding Alex Jones - He is actually correct a lot of the time, but it's his nut job ridiculous conspiracy theories that cause me to dislike his show.

[Original Poster]

It was orchestrated under George Bush Snr. He deregulated the economy, under the pressure of various lobbies. These lobbies were not stupid. They know exactly what happens when you deregulate the economy to enable a bust... it busts. The people who actually collapsed the economy were just seeking to get rich in spite of the consequences, because they knew they wouldn't have to deal with the toxic loans when the shit hit the fan, they'd sell them off first. To assume people would not pursue easy money is ludicrous. And bullshit. They knew people would pursue easy money, they knew the economy would bust. They knew because it already happened before. There's no excuse for the deregulation that took place. It was purposeful, there's no other explanation.

[tommo]

Agreed. But a long term plan to keep the low echelons of society low and the high echelons of society high, I'm not sure.

[Original Poster]

That's not the game plan. The game plan is to control the three vital resources to maintaining and controlling the workforce: food, water and power. Pushing the world into an economic collapse enables greater centralization of these resources.

[Descensus]

It was orchestrated under George Bush Snr. He deregulated the economy, under the pressure of various lobbies. These lobbies were not stupid. They know exactly what happens when you deregulate the economy to enable a bust... it busts. The people who actually collapsed the economy were just seeking to get rich in spite of the consequences, because they knew they wouldn't have to deal with the toxic loans when the shit hit the fan, they'd sell them off first. To assume people would not pursue easy money is ludicrous. And bullshit. They knew people would pursue easy money, they knew the economy would bust. They knew because it already happened before. There's no excuse for the deregulation that took place. It was purposeful, there's no other explanation. I think you're confusing "deregulation" with "Federal Reserve." Didn't I bring this up before?

[Original Poster]

What are you talking about?

[Descensus]

What are you talking about? I've commented on a post like the previous one before, where you squarely place the blame for the recession on deregulation and make no mention of anything else. ...Maybe it was one of Ninja's post. Yeah, I think it was. My bad.

[Original Poster]

You're still being ridiculously vague, like always. Back up an argument for once, please. Besides, I'm not placing the blame squarely anywhere. I'm saying the deregulation is irrefutable, inarguable evidence that the collapse was a deliberate means to centralize power.

[Descensus]

You're still being ridiculously vague, like always. Back up an argument for once, please. Take your foot off the attitude pedal, if you would. I confused your post with a similar one Ninja had posted in the past. Besides, I'm not placing the blame squarely anywhere. I'm saying the deregulation is irrefutable, inarguable evidence that the collapse was a deliberate means to centralize power. Were you not also putting in the assumption that deregulation is the reason the economy busts?

[cmind]

When creditors are allowed to circumvent this infrastructure and give out loans that they do not expect to be paid back, there is only one word for it, predatory. Why would they do this? How is it in the self interest of a creditor to give out bad loans? Default = they lose. Unless... (you finish this sentence)

[Marvo]

What economic collapse?

[cmind]

What economic collapse? A bit of hyperbole, I suppose. Certainly, the world economy is chugging along as fast as ever. The US economy is just stagnant.

[tommo]

That's not the game plan. The game plan is to control the three vital resources to maintaining and controlling the workforce: food, water and power. Pushing the world into an economic collapse enables greater centralization of these resources. Yes but what I'm saying is that that sort of thing is multi-generational; it takes a long time to complete that plan. You'd have to have some sort of monarchy mindset, like your family is superior to every other family. You'd have to have a long term game plan in mind, as well would your rich comrades. Why would they do this? How is it in the self interest of a creditor to give out bad loans? Default = they lose. Unless... (you finish this sentence) LULWUT???? They get SOME money off the people, then they take their house when they can't pay the rest. How is that not a good thing for them?

[cmind]

LULWUT???? They get SOME money off the people, then they take their house when they can't pay the rest. How is that not a good thing for them? Because they paid for the house. That's what a loan is -- the bank pays for the house and then you pay them back slowly over many years. If you default, the bank gets next to nothing, and if lots of people default, the bank loses money as house prices drop. Look at it another way: would a bank buy up thousands of houses without owners? No? Why not? Because having lots of unoccupied houses on your balance sheet is a death sentence for a bank (as we saw in 2008). So obviously they didn't want anyone to default. After all, liquid money + interest coming in steady payments is financially preferable to a house, which is only worth what you can sell it for, after months of being on the market. So clearly, banks wouldn't normally want to give mortgages to unreliable people. BUT, the rules of the game are slightly modified. What if you have a back room deal with the government saying that if your bank is financially vulnerable, you'll get a bailout? Ah, now it becomes preferable to give out as many bad loans as you can. If you're lucky and no one defaults, woohoo you get paid. If you're unlucky and everyone defaults, you still get paid! This is called 'moral hazard', and it is the main reason for the bad loans, along with all other risky financial instruments, such as mortgage backed securities and credit default swaps.

[Original Poster]

Why would they do this? How is it in the self interest of a creditor to give out bad loans? Default = they lose. Unless... (you finish this sentence) You can trade the loan after you make it, you're not stuck with it. Mortgages were bundled together and sold, and many of these mortgages were bad investments but the buyer would have no way of knowing. Besides, the bail-outs ensure they banks face no repercussions for their actions. Yes but what I'm saying is that that sort of thing is multi-generational; it takes a long time to complete that plan. You'd have to have some sort of monarchy mindset, like your family is superior to every other family. You'd have to have a long term game plan in mind, as well would your rich comrades. 20 years is hardly a generation, which is the time it took from George Bush Snr's deregulation to the eventual mass default. The usurpation of our vital resources has been multi-generational, yes, and it has been led by the central banking families.

[cmind]

Besides, the bail-outs ensure they banks face no repercussions for their actions. Your "besides" is the salient point here. And who stole taxpayer money to give it to the banks?

[Original Poster]

George W Bush bailed out the banks in September, '08. Obama bailed out the auto-industry. Also, it's hardly a salient point. The bail-outs ensure the lenders face no consequences, whether they were the ones giving out the bad loans or the ones the buying them up.