Thread: Feminism and the Disposable Male

I don't know what to say about the disposable male :/ (my interent sucks so I could only watch half the vid)

But I guess I agree with others here, the idea of the disposable male runs deeper than culture. Its kind of like when feminists try to argue that the woman doesn't have any more responsibility in terms of childrearing than a man, when biologically thats not exactly true. Its the woman who has to carry the child for nine months, its the woman who has to give birth, and its the woman who has to breastfeed *before modern milk-bottle technology*. Biologically, and without technological intervention, the role of mother is more vital (literally) than the role of father for atleast the first year of your life.

And I think its because the woman is so vulnerable when she is pregnant and breastfeeding that men throughout time and cultures have developed a protective attitude over women and children. Actually, I think this relationship evolved even before we were human!

But culture has blown this relationship way out of proportion, like saying childrearing is 100% the womans job, which is bull, or that men are disposable, which is also bull.

I dont like the idea of men being disposable. I dont like drafting young men for war, thats just so wrong. Young men dying for lies, its disgusting. Hell, send the old men getting fat in washington instead.

But at the same time...I still have this assumption that men ARE more protective of women then women are protective of men. Not that I expect them to be, I assume they are by nature. I have this assumption that if a wife is getting beat up by a stranger, the husband, well if he can protect his wife he will to the best of his ability. I just can't assume the wife will return the favor. And as a petite female terrified to walk alone at night, just being with a guy I trust makes me feel that much more safer. Even more safer than being with a female I equally trust.

And thats just the physical reality of being the physically weaker half of the species. (something feminists have been in denial of for yeaaarrrssss!!)

I dont mean to sound sexist, I think men WILLFULLY play this protective role of women, and they do it in the funniest ways without even knowing it!! Food. Food! Food! Guys have you any idea how often you casually offer me food? This happened to me all the time at work. Its such a subtle gesture, but, if a guy is snacking on something and I'm not, he offers me a bite. Cool!! I can practically abuse his good nature just by standing in close proximity >:3

And to compare this to women I've worked with, they don't offer me a piece of their snack as guys have done, they instead purchase EXTRA with the intention to offer me some. Okay I know the guys and girls I work with don't represent the whole world, but this is kinda funny. Its funny because thats what I do. When I feel like sharing food, I buy extra. But if I only bought enough snacks for me, nah-uh, im greedy.

Maybe Im making a wrong generalization. But even today, even after feminism, guys still use the offering of food to secure a relationship. Oh I know theres lots of guys who moan about this double standard that men are supposed to pay for the date and women are cheap - but seriously. Strip us of culture and toss us naked in a jungle. Who's going to offer the other food first, man or woman? Forget the bible, the bibles wrong, its man!

But I think we need a revamp of our understanding of male and female, and some more humility and honesty of our human nature. Our physical and emotional needs.

And I know that some people on this board thought I was feminist, I dont think I am. I dont think the female is suppressed in this society. I think the FEMININE is suppressed. And when I say this I mean everything we attribute to the feminine, such as our emotional selves, our spiritual needs, or how we treat art as less important than math in school. This feminine suppression has negatively impacted the male in our culture more than the female.

Originally Posted by juroara

I dont mean to sound sexist, I think men WILLFULLY play this protective role of women, and they do it in the funniest ways without even knowing it!! Food. Food! Food! Guys have you any idea how often you casually offer me food? This happened to me all the time at work. Its such a subtle gesture, but, if a guy is snacking on something and I'm not, he offers me a bite. Cool!! I can practically abuse his good nature just by standing in close proximity >:3

The course I took last term in primate behavior has ruined my ability to participate in this conversation.
I can't contain my urge to point out how common things like this are in monkeys and apes xD

@Darkmatters: that (above) is pretty much the mode of thinking I was in the whole time I was watching the video, and I probably straw-man'd the position a bit.

I guess the point is that equality is a dead end, and maybe our thinking should be towards something more like proportionality.

Originally Posted by IndieAnthias

The course I took last term in primate behavior has ruined my ability to participate in this conversation.
I can't contain my urge to point out how common things like this are in monkeys and apes xD

Please, don't hold yourself back. That sounds very interesting and educational for all of us.

I guess the point is that equality is a dead end, and maybe our thinking should be towards something more like proportionality.

Proportionality IS equality. Equal value. One is not more dispensable than the other. It's just that too many people confuse equality with sameness, even feminists.

Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

Please, don't hold yourself back. That sounds very interesting and educational for all of us.

Yeah, but I was warned against anthropomorphizing the material, because it's sooooo tempting to do so. Literally every variation of primate behavior we covered... my reaction was, 'yeah, I know people who do that'. It works in reverse, too. As I read these comments here, my reaction is, 'yeah, I know monkeys who do that'. That just speaks to the power of evolved psychological mechanisms that we are controlled by. They are super-effective. As I said in a previous post, you can rant about people following these basic simple-logic reproductive mandates to absurd conclusions, but they always will. And I do know it's often said in primate behavior that males are expendable, so this is pretty fundamental.

But, it is bad business to apply primatology principles to humans too quickly. I mean, we are primates and the principles DO apply, but each species has exceptions, and we have quite a lot of them.

If you're still interested (with the disclaimer I mentioned), I'll find some material that I learned and share.

Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

Proportionality IS equality. Equal value. One is not more dispensable than the other. It's just that too many people confuse equality with sameness, even feminists.

Yeah, that's basically what I was trying to get at. In the past, a move towards equality was a move in the right direction, and proportionality could be treated as a "we'll cross that bridge when we get there" thing. Now we're at that bridge.