Thread: Senator Reid calls for constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United

Originally Posted by Original Poster

it is Citizens United which actually renders public opinion irrelevant and leaves our government exclusively in the hands of the wealthiest of the wealthy......the unregulated influence of the 140 individuals or so that make up the super elite class.

So what exactly does this organization do that accomplishes this? I'm not being sarcastic, I just have never heard of this group. I did a quick search on them and they seem to just be another limited government, liberty-fighting political group. So what sinister forces are at play that you speak of?

Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission has often been credited for the creation of "super PACs", political action committees which make no contributions to candidates or parties and so can accept unlimited contributions from individuals, corporations and unions. Certainly, the holding in Citizens United that, for purposes of establishing a "compelling government interest" of corruption sufficient to justify government limitations on political speech, "independent expenditures, including those made by corporations, do not give rise to corruption or the appearance of corruption", helped affirm the legal basis for super PACs. However, it took another decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, Speechnow.org v. Federal Election Commission, to actually authorize the creation of super PACs. While Citizens United held that corporations and unions could make independent expenditures, a separate provision of the Federal Election Campaign Act, at least as long interpreted by the Federal Election Commission, held that individuals could not contribute to a common fund without it becoming a PAC. PACs, in turn, were not allowed to accept corporate or union contributions of any size or to accept individual contributions in excess of $5000. In Speechnow.org, the D.C. Circuit, sitting en banc, held 9–0 that in light of Citizens United, such restrictions on the sources and size of contributions could not apply to an organization that made only independent expenditures in support of or opposition to a candidate, but not contributions to a candidate's campaign. The effectiveness of this system remains a hot topic in American politics. See Political Action Committee.

Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically what Citizens United refers to is the law that was pushed by an organization of the same name which has removed the limitations on campaign funding, turning what were once million dollar campaigns into billion dollar campaigns and requiring politicians to reach out to billionaires for funding. It's essentially demolished the ability for grass roots politicians to compete in politics. Now everyone must be a corporate candidate.

It wouldn't be a problem if the voters would hold their politicians to standards instead of being die hard party loyalists.

"Super PACs." Thank-you for clearing that up.

Eh, I think an oligarchy is simply a bi-product of our political / economic system. When success and growth is determined by [tax] revenue and GPD......CASH MOVES EVERYTHING.
ahhh, the beauty of America.

It's all in the voters' hands. We have the power. That doesn't mean we are using it.

Originally Posted by LucidTruth

"Super PACs." Thank-you for clearing that up.

Eh, I think an oligarchy is simply a bi-product of our political / economic system. When success and growth is determined by [tax] revenue and GPD......CASH MOVES EVERYTHING.
ahhh, the beauty of America.

Well you're not wrong, but I think the process of transforming it into an oligarchy doesn't happen without public consent or at least apathy. The labor movement and the Progressive Era in the U.S. for example saw a massive shift away from tyranny by the elite. Over the last 50 years, there's been a massive push toward absolutist economic philosophy that favors the supply side over the demand side. Fox News has to work tirelessly to maintain public opinion that we should disenfranchise the demand side to stop them from being parasites and let the supply side continue to consolidate power. CNN has to constantly fixate on distraction and MSNBC has to run its own charade at the edge of limited spectrum of debate, if any of those three organizations actually took time to report on poverty, it would change the conversation in this country. There's an article about a guy who decides to watch Fox News for a month straight and concluded what's worse than the GOP propaganda is simply the lack of actual reporting you get. This is true of all major news, even if they don't constantly shove the GOP party line down your mouth, the goal is to constantly try to run a charade of informing you while omitting real news. Don't forget, MSNBC is owned by G.E., a company run by conservative oligarchs that does not pay taxes.

Part of it is the language. They want everyone to believe Scandinavian countries are actually socialist even though they're really just capitalist countries that maintain a healthier balance between supply and demand. They want people to think Capitalism without this balance is not natural capitalism, it's socialism, and only capitalism with power shifted toward the supply side is authentic. The truth is it's still a game of manipulation, the strings are still being pulled.

I suppose you could argue that the media will always be controlled by major corporations and will continue to shape the conversation in a pro-corporatist way, but education doesn't have to come from those sources, there are plenty of independent, communally organized means of educating yourself.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Well you're not wrong, but I think the process of transforming it into an oligarchy doesn't happen without public consent or at least apathy.


I suppose you could argue that the media will always be controlled by major corporations and will continue to shape the conversation in a pro-corporatist way, but education doesn't have to come from those sources, there are plenty of independent, communally organized means of educating yourself.

I think you hit the nail on the head... this corruption doesnt happen without the apathy on a lotttttt people's part. We can do our part by anything from being educated on the issues, to economically showing your support (boybotting, etc.), and obviously politically showing your support (by attending public gathering's / political rallies.) Things like these give us the most control over our free-market system.

But I also think, like you were saying, the personal efforts of these concerned citizens is extremely hindered by corporation. News is propaganda, education is political, and the culture of our country and her people has been hijacked. And I think these 3 things forces have a much, much more powerful effect on than we know. I think when you start unnaturally distorting cultural, bad things happen (history can tell of that.)

I think the American people can all agree on one thing: were in deep shit and were digging even deeper and deeper. I think a the idea of an American oligarchy is slowly moving away from conspiracy, and to now seems appearing to be just plain, common sense. I think the real issue at stake here is... what is it going to take to get the American people... to I don't know..... care about these issues? Care enough to actually do something about it... what is it going to take?



I'm thinking flesh-eating, zombie apocalypse.

At least we have the billionaire Koch brothers pushing libertarian ideas with their money. I salute those guys.

Western Hero: Why the Attacks on the Koch Brothers?

Progress Report: https://www.tytnetwork.com/2014/06/0...is-us-winning/



TL;DW: The GOP used to recognize the danger of unregulated campaign financing, including all the critics of this amendment. Unregulated campaign spending eventually led to the purchase of the entire party and the script was flipped. Mitch McConnell actually knows how bad Citizens United and money=speech is for the country, and has stated so very thoroughly back before he was corrupted and bribed to join the deregulation side.

Thanks to the State of Vermont, we're looking at a fighting chance for this amendment and with it the possible salvation of our democracy.