William: What has been established beyond reasonable doubt, it that it is illogical that "something that is, derived from something that isn't", which firmly places the idea of a Creator/Creation as primary for genuine and sustained consideration.
Brunumb: What hasn't been established is what preexisted this iteration of matter/energy that we refer to as the universe.
William: Scientists are working on finding this out. IF they are correct about the infinitesimally small object which exploded and produced what we currently are experiencing as a stage in the universes unfolding, THEN at least we can identify said object as "The Seed of Origin"
What, if anything pre-existed that - is beyond our current ability to know.
Brunumb: If it was not 'nothing' and we know nothing about it, then how can we deduce that it involved some sort of mindful creator?
William: Easily enough. We know that mind is integrated with matter. Thus we have clear evidence that a mindful creator is involved, even if that creator-mind is unfolding from the Seed of Origin which birthed the universe we are witnessing through experience.
Being that it has emerged since the germination {Big Bang} it has had a great amount of time in which to learn to effect the matter to whatever it wills, even to the point of doing so here on this planet, as we ourself bear witness, even to the degree that we refer to that as "reality".
Brunumb: One can stick that on the table for consideration but there is nowhere to go after that.
William: There is always somewhere to go. Testing it out for starters.
If:
There is a mind behind creation
THEN:
We ought be able to communicate with it, using whatever physical devices we can create in order to do so.
Brunumb: It's all just imaginative speculation.
William: How do you know that? Or are you imagining that is all that it is?
Brunumb: When you look at this universe and everything within it, it is hard to imagine it all arising from some sort of mindful creator as far as I am concerned.
William: That is very understandable. However, even being that it is hard to imagine, it is not impossible. I haven't had any insurmountable problem in at least subjectively verifying It exists, or finding ways in which to communicate with It.
Brunumb: Extend that into the domain of the Christian creator God, then it all even becomes an absurdity.
William: As came up recently in my communion with said Mind -
GM: Where is Truth?
We Groove Together
Recovery
The resistance is generally traceable to the theistic approach of religionizing said intelligent mind.
William: What is noticeable about theism - even where it has branched into religionism - is that this is a type of means of leaving a trail in ones wake, and the trail itself shows efforts of The Mind to engage with human minds for the purpose of connecting - but often religious leaders have used this as a means of securing station/position within hierarchal structures which require said leaders to be the middle-person between The Mind and the individual - something easily enough achieved since the individual can be unsure of themselves and even afraid of doing that, so they willingly allow for the medium to act as go-between...which more often than not leads to little to no meaningful connection at all.
This also occurs in theistic non-religious structures - mostly because individuals doubt themselves sincere and honest enough to drop the medium and connect in a self-responsible manner.
Even so, I write that as an observation rather than a judgement. The Mind is aware that it is a scary thing for individuate human minds to willingly do, and while ideally if everyone did do it, much good could be accomplished, that most do not do it, does not affect the agenda of said Mind.
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