Thread: 9/11 Conspiracy

And btw, Fox News just looks plain stupid at this point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPwfoO4KKaE



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPwfoO4KKaE

Originally Posted by universal mind

All you do is talk from an nonexpert standpoint about demolition specifics that the masses of actual experts roll their eyes at and the fact that some government information is classified, and other such things, and you won't answer the questions the doubters have. That is classic religious brainwashing you are trying to engage in and have apparently been subjected to. Your side of this debate is extremely weak and evasive.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Oh, okay. That explains away all of the issues I have been raising and just discussed in my last post. Thanks for helping me understand you position so much better.

Originally Posted by universal mind

Oh, okay. That explains away all of the issues I have been raising and just discussed in my last post. Thanks.

Are you getting the picture yet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D0JYwBwtHs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luLGWaEVJhs

Universal that is a very good likeness

Just give me your questions in a nutshell. Make sure they are good ones. I will respond best I can.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Universal that is a very good likeness

Just give me your questions in a nutshell. Make sure they are good ones. I will respond best I can.

Really? Cool.

1. Who was flying the airplanes? If they were non-human devices, how did they fool air traffic control, sign-in staff, stewardesses, the guys who wave flags at pilots on the runways, and other airport and airplane staff into thinking they were human pilots?

2. What was really happening when passengers on the airplanes called their friends and family members, who were told by the passengers about hijackings taking place and who reportedly heard hijackings taking place?

3. What hit the Pentagon, and how does your answer relate to what thousands of Pentagon workers reported and didn't report?

4. Who are Bin Laden, Al-Zawihiri, Sheik Momammed, Al-Zarqawi, the other supposed leaders and mere members of Al Qaeda, the supposed Al Qaeda members the Coalition troops are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay? Who are they REALLY?

5. Why have there been no leaks from any of the many perpetrators of the supposed 9/11 conspiracy?

6. Why are the masses (not the very small minority of exceptions) of construction and demolition experts in the world, particularly the ones who live in New York, not passionately on the bandwagon to claim the government's reports about the collapses of the World Trade Center buildings are out of synch with true demolition principles?

Really? Cool.

1. Who was flying the airplanes? If they were non-human devices, how did they fool air traffic control, sign-in staff, stewardesses, the guys who wave flags at pilots on the runways, and other airport and airplane staff into thinking they were human pilots?

Understand that your discussing something that is more unclear than the core of the evidence. It's not the center of 911 truth evidence. I have not looked deep enough into this particular aspect of it to be sure enough to say. I studied what I saw as the most important parts of 911. Since you asked Air traffic control can be ignored easy. To get past all the security is suppose to be difficult. Expecially for a hi-jacker. So I don't know why your asking this as it gives my view more validity than yours doesn't it?

If the plane was piloted somehow. They would still not have fooled air traffic control. Just ignored them perhaps. Personally my observation of the plane in detail (i was really interested in planes/weapons etc when I was a kid and still obsessed with technology) I think it is not even from an airline company at all. But some military similarity that was available and custom for the mission. The bottom of the plane gives this away as it is different. My understanding of aircraft and common sense tells me this from photos I have observed, and the video. While I have seen no evidence to the contrary.

I'm digressing a bit. Basically who was flying the airplanes? Look I know for sure it wasn't the hi-jackers they claimed for one reason in particular. The video security tape timing I observed did not add up to the time it would take him to board the aircraft. They were caught red handed mucking around with the timing of the security camera tape. On the media it was shown incorrectly. And it became evident that it would be impossible for him to be on the plane. From when the supposed hi-jacker was seen at the airport checking in.

Secondly, just something I remembered. The passport was supposely found in the destruction. Do you really think that it is realistic that the passport could survive, but everyone in the plane, and the plane exploding into the building. But no, they found his passport in perfect condition somehow? Highly unlikely. But very convenient for the promotion of the identity of the hi-jacker.

Another thing is usually those airplanes are installed with recording devices that cannot be destroyed in the most serve accident. Yet they went missing and could not be recovered. Despite the impossibility of such a thing. But the passport was found. Again, very convenient for the bush administration.

There is even more information I would have forgotten about this that I might get back to you, on how it's impossible for them to actually be the hi-jackers on the plane. For now I'm running out of time. But this in itself should be enough to answer your question.

2. What was really happening when passengers on the airplanes called their friends and family members, who were told by the passengers about hijackings taking place and who reportedly heard hijackings taking place?

For one thing. I have no information on anyone connected to witnesses of family members or others in the plane who would have experienced the hi-jacking of the aircraft. This kind of verification would not be an entirely trustworthy source second hand as there is a lot of dis info perpetrated to cloud the truth. Even though I find all this pretty irrelevant at this time to core issues of 911 in general. All I can say is I probably know about as much as you at this time when it comes to passengers and relatives experience on the plane.

3. What hit the Pentagon, and how does your answer relate to what thousands of Pentagon workers reported and didn't report?

A missile hit the pentagon. And Pentagon Workers are trained a certain way to do their job according to certain habits and trends of the culture within the pentagon that allows this kind of suppression to be enforced. While maintaining the illusion that it's not. Most don't need to know about it and are unaware. Like you were on the day. Meanwhile High officials knowing anything do not risk their job to report false flag operations if they are helping design them and have something to gain from it. Others are scared and intimidated by belittlement and threats. Your career is ruined if you question the official story properly. While there has been quite a few whistle blowers that have written and spoken on this topic at large. They have given up their careers to do so. And that's part of my research.

4. Who are Bin Laden, Al-Zawihiri, Sheik Momammed, Al-Zarqawi, the other supposed leaders and mere members of Al Qaeda, the supposed Al Qaeda members the Coalition troops are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay? Who are they REALLY?

Are you fishing for something to attack and distract us with? Rather than providing honest genuine questions? These are rather extreme and irrelevant things you ask about 911.

If you insist to ask. Bin Laden is a public figure totally unrelated to the attacks. Just as George Bush is unrelated to the core of his speeches. That is a pattern. A wise enemy will never reveal the source directly in public to become a target. Unless they are unwise puppets of others, then they become the scapegoat for intelligent and more dangerous Evil. AL Qaeda is a funded enemy by those who insist we need protection from AL Qaeda. This is a trick. Terrorism is real. But the terrorist are not what you think. The real terrorist are funding the enemy so they are not discovered by the people. We can tell there is Evil in the world. So those who are evil and successful understand they must create and fund their own mini me enemy so a real one does not come to defeat them and find them. To give the destruction a place to go other than them self so they are not targeted or suspected. If they want to promote this idea of global terrorism and present a solution to benefit their intentions. They must first create global terrorism and someone to blame for it other than them self. Once they have created the problem they can say "look what they have done we must enforce protection for you from 'these people'". Meanwhile it is them that funded and fostered 'those people' in order to create this problem for their 'solution'. So the people you mention there are not even major players at all. They are merely public figures, scapegoat puppets of authority representing evil. Not that they are good people. They are corrupt too obviously in alliance on a lower level. From other organizations within the bilderberg group for example. Meanwhile guess what. In secret they are protected and welcomed by those who promote them as the enemy. Hence the reason why bin laden is safe and securely flown out of America.

5. Why have there been no leaks from any of the many perpetrators of the supposed 9/11 conspiracy?

There is plenty of leaks Universal. Many people speak out for what is right and true in this world but are not supported or herd mainstream in corporate setting as usual due to centralized globalization. Could it be that you are unrealistic to expect it all on a platter? If your asking for the leaders of the terror and suppression in the highest positions to all come out of hiding and all of a sudden tell everyone on television one day. "Hey people of the world. Yeah many of us made these terrible mistakes against your rights and we are no longer going to suppress this information from you like we have. It was I and friends that wanted to steal everything and kill and oppress your freedom and destroy you mind. We stole all that money from the pentagon. We made these wars for gain. We blamed it on others. We debunked efforts to expose us. And many more things behind your back. By the way don't forget these acts of sexual abuse of the children we kidnapped. Oh and it was us that wanted to dominate in a fascist order for our own greed. It was us that tricked you into submission. That was responsible for Nazism and contributing to help sink America and the world over these years. We shot Kennedy and we hi-jacked the economy under the disguise of the federal reserve. We owned it all and made certain you didn't understand. But now we want to tell you how we have brainwashed you. And we ask for your forgiveness so we may help you so we are trusted in the future.

Seriously think what your asking. They are not going to admit what they planned behind your back. When you are a certain amount sadistic set in your ways. You don't give in an be nice one day for no reason. In addition you must not understand the scale of this operation and how things work in the reality to think 'no-one has spoken out about it'. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is a war between "good guys" and "bad guys". You are supporting the "bad guys". Because you defend the illusion, while I try and expose it.

6. Why are the masses (not the very small minority of exceptions) of construction and demolition experts in the world, particularly the ones who live in New York, not passionately on the bandwagon to claim the government's reports about the collapses of the World Trade Center buildings are out of synch with true demolition principles?

Your question itself is misinformed and more of a statement. You'll find all honest and balanced informed individuals are infact passionately trying to save America and the world from further decay and corruption. This includes experts speaking out in varies fields. Memeticverb already gave you a list of experts supporting reality.

Now I have taken the time to answer your questions maybe you could address some of my issues?













__________________

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Understand that your discussing something that is more unclear than the core of the evidence. It's not the center of 911 truth evidence. I have not looked deep enough into this particular aspect of it to be sure enough to say. I studied what I saw as the most important parts of 911. Since you asked Air traffic control can be ignored easy. To get past all the security is suppose to be difficult. Expecially for a hi-jacker. So I don't know why your asking this as it gives my view more validity than yours doesn't it?

If the plane was piloted somehow. They would still not have fooled air traffic control. Just ignored them perhaps. Personally my observation of the plane in detail (i was really interested in planes/weapons etc when I was a kid and still obsessed with technology) I think it is not even from an airline company at all. But some military similarity that was available and custom for the mission. The bottom of the plane gives this away as it is different. My understanding of aircraft and common sense tells me this from photos I have observed, and the video. While I have seen no evidence to the contrary.

I'm digressing a bit. Basically who was flying the airplanes? Look I know for sure it wasn't the hi-jackers they claimed for one reason in particular. The video security tape timing I observed did not add up to the time it would take him to board the aircraft. They were caught red handed mucking around with the timing of the security camera tape. On the media it was shown incorrectly. And it became evident that it would be impossible for him to be on the plane. From when the supposed hi-jacker was seen at the airport checking in.

Secondly, just something I remembered. The passport was supposely found in the destruction. Do you really think that it is realistic that the passport could survive, but everyone in the plane, and the plane exploding into the building. But no, they found his passport in perfect condition somehow? Highly unlikely. But very convenient for the promotion of the identity of the hi-jacker.

Another thing is usually those airplanes are installed with recording devices that cannot be destroyed in the most serve accident. Yet they went missing and could not be recovered. Despite the impossibility of such a thing. But the passport was found. Again, very convenient for the bush administration.

There is even more information I would have forgotten about this that I might get back to you, on how it's impossible for them to actually be the hi-jackers on the plane. For now I'm running out of time. But this in itself should be enough to answer your question.

So let's get this straight. The airplanes, which had commercial labels, were replicas of airplanes that had been scheduled by major companies to fly from the same specific locations at the same specific times as the "military" replicas? I bet it was pretty damn hard to dispose of the real airplanes that had been sent to those locations. Are they buried under the airports with the real pilots and other staff still in them, never having been reported missing? There are also the flag guys on the runway. They would have noticed if the planes were not being operated by people. If people were operating them, who in the world was willing to die for this supposed conspiracy? And you can't just ignore air traffic control. Such a thing would have been an FAA disaster that would have caught national attention before any actual hijackings or crashes had been reported. It would have raised a hijack alarm immediately. Plus, they would have had to have dealt with air traffic control and airport staff to land the airplanes on the runways in the first place. Impossible.

Some things get burned up in crashes while other things do not. I am not sure about the credibility of those reports any way, though they may be credible, but finding a passport though not finding a recording is nothing significant.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

For one thing. I have no information on anyone connected to witnesses of family members or others in the plane who would have experienced the hi-jacking of the aircraft. This kind of verification would not be an entirely trustworthy source second hand as there is a lot of dis info perpetrated to cloud the truth. Even though I find all this pretty irrelevant at this time to core issues of 911 in general. All I can say is I probably know about as much as you at this time when it comes to passengers and relatives experience on the plane.

Lots of people had cell phone conversations with the people on the airplanes while the hijackings, or mock hijackings you might call them, were happening. A great deal has been written about this by the friends and family members, and many of them have given interviews that have been very public. Even if you want to claim that the writings are government put ons and the interviews are of actors hired by the government, the fact is that cell phones were very common at the time and cell conversations would have happened. Not one person has claimed that they talked to a passenger who said everything was actually okay at those moments. They have all said quite the opposite, in very large numbers.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

A missile hit the pentagon. And Pentagon Workers are trained a certain way to do their job according to certain habits and trends of the culture within the pentagon that allows this kind of suppression to be enforced. While maintaining the illusion that it's not. Most don't need to know about it and are unaware. Like you were on the day. Meanwhile High officials knowing anything do not risk their job to report false flag operations if they are helping design them and have something to gain from it. Others are scared and intimidated by belittlement and threats. Your career is ruined if you question the official story properly. While there has been quite a few whistle blowers that have written and spoken on this topic at large. They have given up their careers to do so. And that's part of my research.

So job incentive keeps thousands of people from reporting that a missile hit their building at work? Think about that for a few seconds. "I don't want to report that the biggest news story in history is false in that it was actually a MISSILE that hit my work building. I just so desperately want to keep working at the place that was hit by a missile shot by the organization I work for." Do you really think that makes sense? We are talking about thousands of people. Somebody would have said something. Who are the supposed whistle blowers you are talking about? Did you read about their existence in one of those check out line magazines that talks about missing World War II planes orbiting Mars?

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Are you fishing for something to attack and distract us with? Rather than providing honest genuine questions? These are rather extreme and irrelevant things you ask about 911.

If you insist to ask. Bin Laden is a public figure totally unrelated to the attacks. Just as George Bush is unrelated to the core of his speeches. That is a pattern. A wise enemy will never reveal the source directly in public to become a target. Unless they are unwise puppets of others, then they become the scapegoat for intelligent and more dangerous Evil. AL Qaeda is a funded enemy by those who insist we need protection from AL Qaeda. This is a trick. Terrorism is real. But the terrorist are not what you think. The real terrorist are funding the enemy so they are not discovered by the people. We can tell there is Evil in the world. So those who are evil and successful understand they must create and fund their own mini me enemy so a real one does not come to defeat them and find them. To give the destruction a place to go other than them self so they are not targeted or suspected. If they want to promote this idea of global terrorism and present a solution to benefit their intentions. They must first create global terrorism and someone to blame for it other than them self. Once they have created the problem they can say "look what they have done we must enforce protection for you from 'these people'". Meanwhile it is them that funded and fostered 'those people' in order to create this problem for their 'solution'. So the people you mention there are not even major players at all. They are merely public figures, scapegoat puppets of authority representing evil. Not that they are good people. They are corrupt too obviously in alliance on a lower level. From other organizations within the bilderberg group for example. Meanwhile guess what. In secret they are protected and welcomed by those who promote them as the enemy. Hence the reason why bin laden is safe and securely flown out of America.

So Al Qaeda does exist and does make video tapes about how they pulled 9/11 and is fighting our military in the Middle East and is getting captured and taken to Guantanamo Bay and does state that they want to pull future terrorist attacks that rival 9/11 and to make Americans extinct, but they really had nothing to do with 9/11? They ought to be pissed that they got framed like that.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

There is plenty of leaks Universal. Many people speak out for what is right and true in this world but are not supported or herd mainstream in corporate setting as usual due to centralized globalization. Could it be that you are unrealistic to expect it all on a platter? If your asking for the leaders of the terror and suppression in the highest positions to all come out of hiding and all of a sudden tell everyone on television one day. "Hey people of the world. Yeah many of us made these terrible mistakes against your rights and we are no longer going to suppress this information from you like we have. It was I and friends that wanted to steal everything and kill and oppress your freedom and destroy you mind. We stole all that money from the pentagon. We made these wars for gain. We blamed it on others. We debunked efforts to expose us. And many more things behind your back. By the way don't forget these acts of sexual abuse of the children we kidnapped. Oh and it was us that wanted to dominate in a fascist order for our own greed. It was us that tricked you into submission. That was responsible for Nazism and contributing to help sink America and the world over these years. We shot Kennedy and we hi-jacked the economy under the disguise of the federal reserve. We owned it all and made certain you didn't understand. But now we want to tell you how we have brainwashed you. And we ask for your forgiveness so we may help you so we are trusted in the future.

Seriously think what your asking. They are not going to admit what they planned behind your back. When you are a certain amount sadistic set in your ways. You don't give in an be nice one day for no reason. In addition you must not understand the scale of this operation and how things work in the reality to think 'no-one has spoken out about it'. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is a war between "good guys" and "bad guys". You are supporting the "bad guys". Because you defend the illusion, while I try and expose it.

I am not talking about the supposed conspirators themselves. I am talking about wives, girlfriends, husbands, boyfriends, friends, etc. A lot of people would have been necessary for such a big and insane stunt. Something would have gotten out by now. Who has come forward with that type of information?

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Your question itself is misinformed and more of a statement. You'll find all honest and balanced informed individuals are infact passionately trying to save America and the world from further decay and corruption. This includes experts speaking out in varies fields. Memeticverb already gave you a list of experts supporting reality.

You are overlooking what people overlook every time I bring up that issue. I am not asking why there have not been any such experts. I am asking why the MASSES of experts are not giving a damn about this. Think how the masses of people who actually do understand demolition would be going off if the biggest news story in history, which concerns one of the most tragic and freaky things that has happened in American history, involved a false demolition report from the government. Imagine how that would be getting talked about by the masses of experts in reality. It is not happening.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Now I have taken the time to answer your questions maybe you could address some of my issues?

I have addressed your issues, but feel free to give me a short list of questions. However, I am far from being a demolition expert, so I am not going to answer questions about why boards fell down the way they did, just like I am not going to answer questions about why capillaries did what they did during world news megastory heart surgery when the masses of heart surgeons and other medical doctors don't think it's worth addressing, even if ninety doctors in the world claim voodoo spirits must have been present. I will also say ahead of time that a lot of government information is and should be classified when it concerns military matters. That answers a lot of your questions. With those two things in mind, ask away.

see, you just ramble on incoherently after I give in to your irrelevance. Your never satisfied. You just want to make statements and things to suit your argument as you go cherry picking what to concentrate on. Things on the side which are not important. What you have is a pre-conceived mantra that is not only distracting from the main truth but very weak, and at the best of times. Merely Irrelevant to 911. It resembles foolish denile and ignoring of central information.

Universal answer the proper questions.

1) Please explain why the varies experts are incorrect from the list that was provided.
Knowledge from:
Structural Engineers
Military Leaders
Scientists
Varies other Highly Credible People
Legal Scholars

Are all these people mistaken? Give your reasons why.

2) How did the buildings fall? including building 7
3) Why is there no photo of the airplane hitting the pentagon

4) Why did Norad stand down.


If you can't answer these basic foundational things you have no chance of making any solid argument here. It's only sensible to go into more detail after you have covered the basic things. You have not addressed what I am asking you here at all. All you can do is state that no-one is interested or talking about it. When everyone is talking about it. To the point where fox news is overwhelmed with outraged protesters during broadcast. While other mainstream newspaper and sources now is revealing all the lies in plain site. And you think that no-one is trying to get the word out?

I answered your 'questions'. You pretty much ignored my reply and stated exactly the same thing again. Then when I ask you the central most important questions. You shy away from it and complain I have not answered you. When in fact you just have not listened.

Is no-one trying to get the word out?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIOtPKIffZE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiMiHMylSZo

People don't like the idea that some terrorists can come in and with a clever but sinister plan, destroy a national monument. People like to think that there is always a great plan to destroy something great. Conspiracy guys, like mystic, can't take this fact and make up story's (with other people) saying that they were American drones piloted my Saudi nationals and JFK was in a military style ambush.

The truth is, this attack was caused by a group of religious extremists who came into the country, got on-board some planes (and with help of low security airports) they brought on-board small weapons. they used these weapons to take control of the planes and crash them into strategic points over the US; to send a message and to kill people. George Bush although saddened by this news took advantage of the peoples newfound hate for the middle east to attack Iraq and be just like his daddy. He also passed some laws giving himself more power.

At first everyone was happy but then as time went on they (the north) realized they elected a retard and he was just trying to kill Saddam but maybe get some oil in the process.

In the end after Bush is out of office he will go down as the worst president in American history. Then we will elect some new guy who will obviously do better and begin to pull troops out of Iraq and focus more on homeland security. (hopefully)

This is the longest post I've ever written. thank you.

Oh and Mystic.... Watch, Penn and Tellers: Bullshit It basically says everything in a nutshell (and its hella funny)

Thanks.

People don't like the idea that some terrorists can come in and with a clever but sinister plan, destroy a national monument. People like to think that there is always a great plan to destroy something great. Conspiracy guys, like mystic, can't take this fact and make up story's (with other people) saying that they were American drones piloted my Saudi nationals and JFK was in a military style ambush.

The truth is, this attack was caused by a group of religious extremists who came into the country, got on-board some planes (and with help of low security airports) they brought on-board small weapons. they used these weapons to take control of the planes and crash them into strategic points over the US; to send a message and to kill people. George Bush although saddened by this news took advantage of the peoples newfound hate for the middle east to attack Iraq and be just like his daddy. He also passed some laws giving himself more power.

At first everyone was happy but then as time went on they (the north) realized they elected a retard and he was just trying to kill Saddam but maybe get some oil in the process.

In the end after Bush is out of office he will go down as the worst president in American history. Then we will elect some new guy who will obviously do better and begin to pull troops out of Iraq and focus more on homeland security. (hopefully)

This is the longest post I've ever written. thank you.

Oh and Mystic.... Watch, Penn and Tellers: Bullshit It basically says everything in a nutshell (and its hella funny)

Thanks.

So can anyone answer my questions?

Originally Posted by Mystic7

see, you just ramble on incoherently after I give in to your irrelevance. Your never satisfied. You just want to make statements and things to suit your argument as you go cherry picking what to concentrate on. Things on the side which are not important. What you have is a pre-conceived mantra that is not only distracting from the main truth but very weak, and at the best of times. Merely Irrelevant to 911. It resembles foolish denile and ignoring of central information.

That is a very weak assertion. The questions of how key parts of the supposed conspiracy happened, such as how the planes got to the airports and then flew with the illusion of hijackings and how this all happened without large scale expert chatter about false reports concerning the airplane crashes are not irrelevant. You are intellectually dishonest for saying that they are. Please explain how those questions are irrelevant. What an absurd concept.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

1) Please explain why the varies experts are incorrect from the list that was provided.
Knowledge from:
Structural Engineers
Military Leaders
Scientists
Varies other Highly Credible People
Legal Scholars

When you are dealing with very large pools of people commenting on a subject, some of them are going to be wrong. You and I are only two people, and you are wrong, and you are a whole 50% of us. Your backup represents less than 1% of the entire pool. You are illogical for taking extreme minority opinions and using them as though they prove something just because they are stated at all.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

2) How did the buildings fall? including building 7

I am not sure. As I told you in my last post and several other posts, I am far from being an expert on that and am not going to try to pretend otherwise. However, the MASSES of experts, people who understand the subject far better than you, do not dispute the government report on it. You never told me why that might be. You only reiterated your point that some experts, which I keep pointing out comprise a microscopic minority, say that the government report is out of synch with true demolition principles.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

3) Why is there no photo of the airplane hitting the pentagon

Perhaps because there was none taken. Why is there no photo of you typing your last post? Did you have a camera man who knew about the coming crash waiting on the sidewalk to take a picture? If there was such a picture taken, the government would have good reason to suppress it. Such a picture would cause major excitement among terrorists and potential terrorists and be an excellent recruiting tool for terrorist organizations.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

4) Why did Norad stand down.

The notion that they did is shaky and disputed. If it happened as you characterize it, there would have possibly been confusion in the communication. The 9/11 situation was a major curveball to the communications among various departments of the government. It is a situation we started working to improve after 9/11 to be even more prepared for a possible future event of that type. Do you claim that the FAA and Norad were in on this humongous conspiracy?

Originally Posted by Mystic7

If you can't answer these basic foundational things you have no chance of making any solid argument here. It's only sensible to go into more detail after you have covered the basic things. You have not addressed what I am asking you here at all. All you can do is state that no-one is interested or talking about it. When everyone is talking about it. To the point where fox news is overwhelmed with outraged protesters during broadcast. While other mainstream newspaper and sources now is revealing all the lies in plain site. And you think that no-one is trying to get the word out?

You keep so dishonestly misconstruing what I am saying. Are you even reading my posts? I never said that nobody agrees with you. I know there are zillions of pissed off hippies who are showing what despiccable people they are by interrupting Fox News broadcasts and screaming all over the streets. That personality disordered absurdity has been going on since the 1960's. I am talking about MASSES of EXPERTS. MASSES of EXPERTS. Stop lying. I would hate for people to get the strange impression that 9/11 conspiracy loonies are dishonest.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

I answered your 'questions'. You pretty much ignored my reply and stated exactly the same thing again. Then when I ask you the central most important questions. You shy away from it and complain I have not answered you. When in fact you just have not listened.

You FINALLY answered all of my major questions but one, and I pointed out the absurdities of your answers, the funniest of which was the idea that major airlines never reported their airplanes and workers missing after the military painted commercial labels on some substitute/imposter airplanes and used remote control devices to crash them after using the passengers' cell phone calls to put on faked hijackings. You are really a trip. Do you stand on street corners and scream about how the government ignores Bigfoot? Feel free to ask me stump questions about Bigfoot too. I think this conversation is a riot.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ERdW5IiWH...elated&search=

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_lh7PxF1-2M

Mystic, please keep your points in ONE post, not a string one after the other ...

how the planes got to the airports and then flew with the illusion of hijackings

If they can create entire military cities that the public are not even aware of and are not allowed in. I think they can do something simple like make an operation for an airplane take off as per normal and then divert/replace, take control of it etc smoothly. There is a reason no-one cares about this aspect of 911. It's hardly relevant to the collapse of the actual buildings, which is what killed most. If you are so interested in this aspect there is information on it. But why discuss only an unbalanced side of this. Why not go into ALL aspects evenly.

how this all happened without large scale expert chatter about false reports concerning the airplane crashes are not irrelevant.

If you don't see it on the television. It didn't happen.

Please explain how those questions are irrelevant. What an absurd concept.

1) The planes hit the 2 buildings
2) End of immediate relevance to core investigation of the 3 building collapses.
3) Building collapses suspect. How planes are controlled irrelevant as building collapse impossible.

So why talk about just the planes? That's ridiculous. You have far more serious concerns. Such as changing the laws of physics to suit your argument about how the buildings could have collapsed. Or are you not educated enough to talk about it?

You are illogical for taking extreme minority opinions and using them as though they prove something just because they are stated at all.

First they are not opinions just observations of what happened and what we know to be true. Together with the laws of physics. You are illogical for not even looking at the material and information stated by those people. You don't even know what your arguing against. You have not even attempted to debate anything these people have stated in your response so far.

I am not sure. As I told you in my last post and several other posts, I am far from being an expert on that and am not going to try to pretend otherwise.

I rest my case. You don't even understand that the theories which have changed all the time as they have been presented and disproved by science again and again. So you can't even argue anything at this stage as you have not even researched what the current theory is of how they fell. This is because there is NO theory how they fell that is backed up by science. EXCEPT the theory containing explosives. Even though you don't need to be any expert to understand the core evidence of 911 truth. You remain conveniently and willingly ignorant of it.

However, the MASSES of experts, people who understand the subject far better than you, do not dispute the government report on it.

That is complete nonsense. The masses of experts are crying out for a proper investigation. As the official report has been proven as an unbalanced fabrication.

a microscopic minority, say that the government report is out of synch with true demolition principles.

You like to use this word minority as if it means anything. Again, complete nonsense. If your taking into account average Americans that don't know how to tell an expert from a imitation. Then yes. Among all those lemmings, they are in the minority. As experts in their field. They are a majority that are not able to be included into the propaganda of globalization for the lemmings. They are not supported by the process either. So you won't see them explaining the sense of it on television.

Perhaps because there was none taken. Why is there no photo of you typing your last post?]

There is a difference between my home. And the security of the pentagon. You sound ridiculous. The government would have every reason to show the plane if there was one. How could they not? It's the pentagon!

Such a picture would cause major excitement among terrorists and potential terrorists and be an excellent recruiting tool for terrorist organizations.

So you are suggesting a photo of a plane would be too much inspiration for terrorist so the government had good reason to suppress it. Did they also suppress the wreckage and the marks on the ground? Did they suppress the wings of the aircraft before impact? Was it too much excitement to release evidence? According to this logic the government should have suppressed the other two planes also. Not just the 3rd one. And this doesn't make sense as there is still a picture of the hole in the pentagon and many other images of the event that would 'cause excitement'. Yet when everyone ask to see the plane that hit the pentagon. All we get is an explosion of a missile effect hitting it and no other footage is available? That doesn't make sense.

[In relation to norad standing down]

The notion that they did is shaky and disputed.

Complete nonsense. It is fact. There is evidence available that proves it.

I am talking about MASSES of EXPERTS. MASSES of EXPERTS.

You are talking complete garbage. Just because those with active intelligence disagree with evident lies and want freedom instead of fascism. Does not make them automatically hippies because they disagree with something the government says. The real disturbed ones are the lemmings that stare at fox news every day worshiping government.

You FINALLY answered all of my major questions but one, and I pointed out the absurdities of your answers, the funniest of which was the idea that major airlines never reported their airplanes and workers missing after the military painted commercial labels on some substitute/imposter airplanes and used remote control devices to crash them after using the passengers' cell phone calls to put on faked hijackings.

First, that it not what I claim. Second. Show me evidence of the plane with the commercial label, going into the building. Then you might be able to laugh

P.S
homework...
I need more detail on why you think norad didn't stand down. (laughable)
I need reasons why you disagree with the experts (links have being provided)
I need your theory of how the buildings could have collapsed. (without controlled demolition)
I need solid evidence of this plane that you think hit the pentagon.
I require proof that the airplanes were actually hi-jacked by the people you claim did it.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

If they can create entire military cities that the public are not even aware of and are not allowed in. I think they can do something simple like make an operation for an airplane take off as per normal and then divert/replace, take control of it etc smoothly. There is a reason no-one cares about this aspect of 911. It's hardly relevant to the collapse of the actual buildings, which is what killed most. If you are so interested in this aspect there is information on it. But why discuss only an unbalanced side of this. Why not go into ALL aspects evenly.

How in the Hell the airplanes were controlled, how they were used to put on illusions of hijackings, and where in the world the REAL airplanes are right now are extremely relevant issues. You can't explain how it happened, and you are the one claiming the results of it happened. I have exposed the absurdity of the story you are only partially telling, and you cannot counter that exposition.

Hidden military cities?

Originally Posted by Mystic7

If you don't see it on the television. It didn't happen.

If you don't see or hear about it from the masses of experts, who are all over the place, then what you say is laughable. Perhaps some day you will go off about a government brain surgery report regarding the biggest news story in history when the masses of brain surgeons don't see problems with it.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

1) The planes hit the 2 buildings
2) End of immediate relevance to core investigation of the 3 building collapses.
3) Building collapses suspect. How planes are controlled irrelevant as building collapse impossible.

So why talk about just the planes? That's ridiculous. You have far more serious concerns. Such as changing the laws of physics to suit your argument about how the buildings could have collapsed. Or are you not educated enough to talk about it?

I have talked about far more than just the planes, but the planes are what hit the buildings, and how in the Hell they were operated is extremely relevant to this issue. I have told you repeatedly that I am uneducated on demolition specifics, and I don't think you are an expert either. If you are not going to read my posts, this conversation isn't going to get very far. You have yet to get around my point about the lack of MASS expert chatter.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

I rest my case. You don't even understand that the theories which have changed all the time as they have been presented and disproved by science again and again. So you can't even argue anything at this stage as you have not even researched what the current theory is of how they fell. This is because there is NO theory how they fell that is backed up by science. EXCEPT the theory containing explosives. Even though you don't need to be any expert to understand the core evidence of 911 truth. You remain conveniently and willingly ignorant of it.

No, they have been disagreed with by your microscopic minority of experts who are your fellow members in the anti-Bush hate cult. The massses of experts disagree with your nonexpert opinion. Bitch about a "false" report about rocket design while you are at it, and if the MASSES of rocket scientists are not blocking out the cricket noises, we can argue about that too. You can even call their silence "irrelevant".

Originally Posted by Mystic7

First they are not opinions just observations of what happened and what we know to be true. Together with the laws of physics. You are illogical for not even looking at the material and information stated by those people. You don't even know what your arguing against. You have not even attempted to debate anything these people have stated in your response so far.

You are being quite repetitive. I am not going to pretend I am a demolition expert, and it is hilarious that you do. The cricket noises heard over the actual experts says volumes, and you have yet to get around that issue.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

That is complete nonsense. The masses of experts are crying out for a proper investigation. As the official report has been proven as an unbalanced fabrication.

Bullshit. I know architects, engineers, and construction supervisors, and they are all over the place. They think people like you are in a category with Marshall Applewhite followers.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

You like to use this word minority as if it means anything. Again, complete nonsense. If your taking into account average Americans that don't know how to tell an expert from a imitation. Then yes. Among all those lemmings, they are in the minority. As experts in their field. They are a majority that are not able to be included into the propaganda of globalization for the lemmings. They are not supported by the process either. So you won't see them explaining the sense of it on television.

Yes, it does mean something. It means when you think about the majority of experts (PROFESSIONALS who work administrative positions in construction and demolition), you suddenly don't care so much about expert opinion. That is a sign of intellectual dishonesty. What is your claim on why expert opinion means so much to you until you get to the vast majority opinion?

Originally Posted by Mystic7

There is a difference between my home. And the security of the pentagon. You sound ridiculous. The government would have every reason to show the plane if there was one. How could they not? It's the pentagon!

Such a photograph, if there was one taken of that side of the Pentagon at that moment, would be used as an exciting recruiting tool for terrorists. It's the pentagon!

Originally Posted by Mystic7

So you are suggesting a photo of a plane would be too much inspiration for terrorist so the government had good reason to suppress it. Did they also suppress the wreckage and the marks on the ground? Did they suppress the wings of the aircraft before impact? Was it too much excitement to release evidence? According to this logic the government should have suppressed the other two planes also. Not just the 3rd one. And this doesn't make sense as there is still a picture of the hole in the pentagon and many other images of the event that would 'cause excitement'. Yet when everyone ask to see the plane that hit the pentagon. All we get is an explosion of a missile effect hitting it and no other footage is available? That doesn't make sense.

I don't know, but I can see why they would. The Pentagon is the government's Department of Defense building. An image of the hitting of it would be far more symbolically powerful than photographs of airplanes hitting the World Trade Center. I still want to understand why thousands of Pentagon workers have been silent about no airplane hitting their work building because they want to keep working in the building that their bosses hit with a missile. Have you really thought about that?

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Complete nonsense. It is fact. There is evidence available that proves it.

It is heavily disputed. Have you bothered to read about the disagreement to your notion? It is in fact very much disputed.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

You are talking complete garbage. Just because those with active intelligence disagree with evident lies and want freedom instead of fascism. Does not make them automatically hippies because they disagree with something the government says. The real disturbed ones are the lemmings that stare at fox news every day worshiping government.

I didn't say they are all like that. I just said that they are part of the ilk. In case your last part was supposed to be about me, I get my news from many sources, and they compete with each other on a major level and have everything to lose by lying. What about your sources? And if you think I worship the government, you have not been reading in this forum what I have said about the war on drugs and other terrible policies.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

First, that it not what I claim. Second. Show me evidence of the plane with the commercial label, going into the building. Then you might be able to laugh

I am not saying it is what you claim. I am saying it is what would have had to have happened. (Why do I keep having to set you straight on what I said? Try being more honest.) The people got on the airplanes. Would they have done that if the airplanes looked like military planes and not the ones they had tickets for? Think.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

P.S
homework...
I need more detail on why you think norad didn't stand down. (laughable)
I need reasons why you disagree with the experts (links have being provided)
I need your theory of how the buildings could have collapsed. (without controlled demolition)
I need solid evidence of this plane that you think hit the pentagon.
I require proof that the airplanes were actually hi-jacked by the people you claim did it.

- I said where I stand on the Norad situation, a possible situation of poor communication.

- In areas where I am far from being an expert, I see the probability as lying with the vast majority of experts and not the microscopic minority. Why do you automatically side with the microscopic minority? Would you dare to answer that question?

- Don't ask me one more fucking time to pretend that I am an expert on demolition. Your skull is very thick on this. Even if I learned enough about demolition to talk about it, I would not know enough to be able to propose countertheories and say what specifically is wrong with your microsopic minority of expert reports, which makes it laughable that you call them "the" experts.

- The burden is not on me to prove that a plane hit the Pentagon. It is on you to prove that it was a missile. The passengers of the reported plane were found dead and were buried, and Pentagon workers are not talking about seeing a damn missile. YOU prove that there was a missile, since that is the claim that goes contrary to the general reports of officials and family members and friends of the victims and even the lowest ranking of Pentagon workers and the Washington Police and so on and so on and so on. Do you claim that the dead passengers got on board a missile? You are claiming this bizarre missile stuff. Prove it. If you claim that God exists, the burden of proof is on you to prove it and not on me to prove he doesn't. IF I can't tell you how humans ended up on Earth, it does not mean you have proven the existence of God or the Flying Spaghetti Monster or anything else. You are making the wild claim about a conspiracy, so the burden is on you to explain how it happened.

- The reports of the passengers themselves and the government officials are that the airplanes were hijacked. The burden of proof is on you to prove the absurd story that would have happened if the airplanes were not hijacked. You call it irrelevant, but now you suddenly seem to think that this issue is relevant. Which is it? Any way, prove that the commercial airplanes that were supposed to be boarded were substituted by military airplanes that were remotely controlled and had some crazy system for feigning hijackings. Can you do that?

And since I just answered your second round of questions, it is your turn to go back to my post where I answered your first round and answer to my responses. Calling them incoherent and irrelevant is an act of lying and does not qualify as countering or answering.

I would suggest ignoring Universal Mind. His goal, like all spammers of ignorance, is to distract and deceive. He has committed more errors of reasoning in this thread than all of the other threads on this site combined (well maybe not, but its close). However, since he insists on using fallacies to promote his view, he is actually doing a trememndous disservice to it! Keep it going genius!

We have the same kind of thing happening to the 911 Truth movement, where people infiltrate posing as honest researchers or activists and then spread disnfo or use fallacies to discredit the movement as a whole. They have failed; mostly because the majority of evidence for 911 Truth is empirically verifiable and has been tested to a high degree of certainty by experts who havnt been refuted publicly.

Such evidence consists partly of:

1: Actual remnants of molten iron which have been proven to be the result of demolition incendiary devices. This has been triple confirmed through three categories of sources, all requiring temps much hotter than jet fuel can produce:

A. Videos of a thermate reaction.

B. Pieces of previously molten iron in the exact form of a thermate reaction

C. And micro-sized, previously molten particles found extensively in the WTC dust.

2: High Velocity streams of debris exactly resembling those of controlled demolition, again confirmed through many sources, including analysis by relevant PhD educated experts like Dr Grabbe, who also points to the evidence of destroyed cars that show signs of high temperature, but not smoke of fire damage, interestingly.

3. The speed and symmetry of the collapses, especially WTC7, exactly resembled a controlled demolition. The intense grid of steel beams and columns was cut from underneath and the collapse ensued at an accelerated pace.

Originally Posted by memeticverb

I would suggest ignoring Universal Mind. His goal, like all spammers of ignorance, is to distract and deceive. He has committed more errors of reasoning in this thread than all of the other threads on this site combined (well maybe not, but its close). However, since he insists on using fallacies to promote his view, he is actually doing a trememndous disservice to it! Keep it going genius!

Look at how nonresponsive and substanceless your points are now that I have you in checkmate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFXAdPeZREY



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFXAdPeZREY

Mystic, please don't post useless pictures.

I repeat: Please don't post useless pictures. And also summerize what your videos say.