Thread: 9/11 Conspiracy

Originally Posted by memeticverb

Your last attempt at "satire" consisted of only strawmen (you know, the fallacy, among many others that you keep repeating like a broken record). I never said anything about remote controlled planes, missiles, fake cell phones, nor anything else you built up to knock down.

Each of us who have actually admitted there are discrepancies in the official account have been sticking to the facts of what happened, and looking for the best possible explanation that accommodates them. We understand parsimony in scientific and logical investigation.

ONE fact accommodates all of this evidence:

"1. Extremely rapid onset of “collapse”
2. Sounds of explosions (heard by 118 first responders as well as by media reporters)
3. Observations of flashes
4. Squibs, or “mistimed” explosions, 40 floors below the “collapsing” building seen in all the videos
5. Mid-air pulverization of all the 90,000 tons of concrete and steel decking, filing cabinets & 1000 people – mostly to dust
6. Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic dust clouds
7. Vertical progression of full building perimeter demolition waves
8. Symmetrical collapse – through the path of greatestno resistance – at free-fall speed — the columns gave resistance
9. 1,400 foot diameter field of equally distributed debris – outside of building footprint
10. Blast waves blew out windows in buildings 400 feet away
11. Lateral ejection of thousands of individual 20 - 50 ton steel beams up to 500 feet
12. Total destruction of the building down to individual structural steel elements – obliterating the steel core structure.
13. Tons of molten Metal found by FDNY under all 3 high-rises (no other possible source other than an incendiary cutting charge such as Thermate)
14. Chemical signature of Thermate (high tech incendiary)dust samples by Physics professor Steven Jones, PhD. found in slag, solidified molten metal, and
15. FEMA finds rapid oxidation and intergranular melting on structural steel samples
16. More than 1000 Bodies are unaccounted for — 700 tiny bone fragments found on top of nearby buildings
And exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire, i.e.
1. Slow onset with large visible deformations
2. Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, intact, from the point of plane impact, to the side most damaged by the fires)
3. Evidence of fire temperatures capable of softening steel
4. High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never “collapsed”

Taken from Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth.

Ill also add, basement explosions.

And WTC7 as compared to a controlled demolition.

Again, one fact can easily explain all of these occurrences, which are not explained by the official story.

None of this even touching on the all of the facts surrounding the attempts by the U.S. government to cover-up everything from the 118 testimonies of explosions posted above, to ex-FBI agents who claim there are people in the FBI who are aided the terrorists, and are still doing so.

Why did John Ashcroft place gag orders on Sibel Edmonds who claims to have evidence of FBI complicit in 9/11? Why did he also gag congress from even hearing her evidence when Congress had called her in to testify and present evidence?

Why did the City of New York's government force the 911 Families to court 3 times before being forced to release the first responders testimony, which detailed explosions?

None of these facts or questions have been explained or answered (but instead covered-up) by any official source.

These empirically verifiable data are what we know. We do not know who planted the explosives or why. All individuals are innocent until proven guilty and an extensive trial putting many key players on the stand would have to occur before we were able to even begin to put the pieces together for every single motive and event of that day.

Also, see the thread in the philosophy forum for an analysis of the thermate evidence (still awaiting a response from Dream Sailor).

We also know that Sibel Edmonds and at least a dozen other FBI whistleblowers have indicated that the FBI has been infiltrated by criminal elements who aided the 9/11 terrorists. Sibel Edmonds who claims to have documented evidence of this fact has been gagged by the highest authority - The Attorney General's Office, even after her claims were substantiated by a preliminary by the Justice Department. Since that time gags orders have been repeatedly placed on Edmonds, and even the U.S. Congress form hearing her testimony. What in the world are they hiding? Why is Congress allowing Executive Privilege to override congressional oversight? Ill outline the legal arguments if you cant see them.

This appeal to executive privilege has also been used in the NSA spying scandal to exempt testimony and evidence. It has also been used in the Riggs Bank case where Bush's uncle was found to have allowed money laundering to two Saudi terrorists responsible for the 9/11 hijackings. Do you think it is suspicious that the brother of the President (who is already under fire for not going after the Saudi source of funding for the 9./11 terrorists), is now found guilty of laundering money to the 9/11 terrorists?

There are hundreds of coincidences that nearly prove a conspiracy. They simply need more investigation before a full chronological picture of the events can emerge.

Universal Mind - All you have to do offer one plausible argument or explanation based on empirically verifiable facts for all of those listed in this thread. All you have done so far is conjure up absurd stories that no one but yourself has adopted as possible, as if this somehow refutes all the facts that have so far gone unanswered.

Memeticverb we have totally hammered them. But still emotionally they want to believe religiously, in their impossible 911 conspiracy, despite reason.

Originally Posted by memeticverb

Universal Mind - All you have to do offer one plausible argument or explanation based on empirically verifiable facts for all of those listed in this thread. All you have done so far is conjure up absurd stories that no one but yourself has adopted as possible, as if this somehow refutes all the facts that have so far gone unanswered.

It looks like you can't even tell a possible version of an inside job story. You repeatedly back down to that challenge. You and I both know why that is. You also can't counter the points I have made.

Try countering this, for example... You are not enough of a demolition expert to know the full scope of but ifs and what ifs concerning your amateur interpretations of demolition specifics, and it is illogical to leap from your amateur interpretations to the bizarre conclusion that they prove that something profoundly far fetched happened, an insane scenario in which you cannot even give a version of how it even possibly could have happened.

Your counterargument please... (I am definitely not holding my breath.)

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Memeticverb we have totally hammered them. But still emotionally they want to believe religiously, in their impossible 911 conspiracy, despite reason.

You are more than welcome to illustrate a possible scenario any time you are ready too.

There are demolitions experts thats are arguing in favor of an inside job, quite a few in fact, it's not nearly like 99.9% aren't talking about it and I would like to ask to you to withdraw that statement and apologize to the firemen and policemen that risked their lives to save people in the horrible tragedy.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

There are demolitions experts thats are arguing in favor of an inside job, quite a few in fact, it's not nearly like 99.9% aren't talking about it.

Uh, yes it is.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

I would like to ask to you to withdraw that statement and apologize to the firemen and policemen that risked their lives to save people in the horrible tragedy.

Huh? What statement, and why firemen and policemen? Could you maybe tell me what in the Hell you are talking about?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

It looks like you can't even tell a possible version of an inside job story. You repeatedly back down to that challenge. You and I both know why that is. You also can't counter the points I have made.

Try countering this, for example... You are not enough of a demolition expert to know the full scope of but ifs and what ifs concerning your amateur interpretations of demolition specifics, and it is illogical to leap from your amateur interpretations to the bizarre conclusion that they prove that something profoundly far fetched happened, an insane scenario in which you cannot even give a version of how it even possibly could have happened.

Your counterargument please... (I am definitely not holding my breath.)



You are more than welcome to illustrate a possible scenario any time you are ready too.

I dont believe fully in an "inside job" story. Ive merely tried to show the evidence for it, and the obvious controlled demolition of the WTC, which could have been accomplished by foreign terrorists. If you cant refute or in any way engage this evidence except by pretending it doesn't exist because you don't have a "full story" then that not my problem.

And you havnt even made any kind of argument. You simply claim that I made some kind of logical leap in the last few posts of mine, but completely fail to explain how. How typical.

Rosie on the view

lol

Originally Posted by memeticverb

And you havnt even made any kind of argument. You simply claim that I made some kind of logical leap in the last few posts of mine, but completely fail to explain how. How typical.

I have explained the leap a trillion times, and you keep ignoring it. How typical. How dishonest. Your bizarre challenges for me to act like a demolition expert do not make the inside job story any more believable. It is absurd.

Originally Posted by UM

I have explained the leap a trillion times, and you keep ignoring it. How typical. How dishonest. Your bizarre challenges for me to act like a demolition expert do not make the inside job story any more believable. It is absurd.

The sky is orange, fire is water and the Iraq war is peaceful. George Bush is good. The sun is made of ice. Your logical. WTC7 steal melts from fire. And pirates are compassionate. Darkness is light. Deception is truth. And your posts are superior to memeticverb's facts. Absurd is sane, pigs fly, and atheism is correct. The sun will not rise tomorrow and your questions are valid. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is propaganda and the pentagon is your yellow submarine. Fox news is worth something and rain causes drought. Universal mind is unbiased and knows the truth. Did you do a reality check?

Originally Posted by Mystic7

The sky is orange, fire is water and the Iraq war is peaceful. George Bush is good. The sun is made of ice. Your logical. WTC7 steal melts from fire. And pirates are compassionate. Darkness is light. Deception is truth. And your posts are superior to memeticverb's facts. Absurd is sane, pigs fly, and atheism is correct. The sun will not rise tomorrow and your questions are valid. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is propaganda and the pentagon is your yellow submarine. Fox news is worth something and rain causes drought. Universal mind is unbiased and knows the truth. Did you do a reality check?

That qualifies as retort, and it clears up everything. It is more effective than posting looney land videos and quotes of other people. You have proven me wrong, and you have shown that the inside job concept even begins to make sense. I agree with you now.

That qualifies as retort, and it clears up everything. It is more effective than posting looney land videos and quotes of other people. You have proven me wrong, and you have shown that the inside job concept even begins to make sense. I agree with you now.

Time to get more real and address what memeticverb posted. Otherwise you remain a few chips short of a happy meal.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Time to get more real and address what memeticverb posted. Otherwise you remain a few chips short of a happy meal.

You don't even have an arm of an action figure toy in your happy meal box if you can't notice what I said to address Memeticverb. I am starting to wonder how many repeats it takes for a point to penetrate your skull. It's an issue sort of like the number of licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop.

Originally Posted by UM

You don't even have an arm of an action figure toy in your happy meal box if you can't notice what I said to address Memeticverb. I am starting to wonder how many repeats it takes for a point to penetrate your skull. It's an issue sort of like the number of licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop.

911
Our leaders War

The wicked witch is dead

And that works as a counterargument to what I said because....?

I just thought I'd throw something random in. Like when you posted munchkin land over the rainbow and such in response to me. While memeticverb and myself still require you to accept the evidence.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

I just thought I'd throw something random in. Like when you posted munchkin land over the rainbow and such in response to me. While memeticverb and myself still require you to accept the evidence.

I require you to accept the evidence that quantum superstrings do not fit the theory of relativity, which proves that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created humans fifty years ago by blowing a pile of mashed potatoes.

Seriously. The laws of nature defy the ability of the two towers to collapse without explosives. That is about 11-12 grade science. You don't even need to be a demolition expert. All you need is to observe the effect and presence of thermate in the building to understand how it cuts through steel. It doesn't take advanced knowledge of science to understand what temperature steel melts or weakens at. It doesn't take a degree to understand the basics of the structure of the buildings and how they were built to withstand such impacts without collapsing to the ground. Please observe the points memeticverb has raised.

Again Universal Mind I'd like to ask you to apologize to the policemen and firemen that risked their lives for your freedom in 9/11

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Again Universal Mind I'd like to ask you to apologize to the policemen and firemen that risked their lives for your freedom in 9/11

Aplogogize? What did I do against them?

your a...manipulator

You showed the dead disrespect by ignoring evidence and not even trying to counter any of the counters to the counters to the conspiracy theories, making figures up and basically lying in order to convince yourself what you unconsciously know to be true, that your government is keeping a lot from you for their benefit, not yours. You showed the injured living disrespect through support of Rudolf Giuiliani who has doen jack shit for the survivors of the catastrophe or the city health problems that ensued the disaster. You showed the uninjured living disrespect by letting their courageous efforts be twisted for the purposes of a corrupt government. Now 'pologize mother fucker.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

You showed the dead disrespect by ignoring evidence and not even trying to counter any of the counters to the counters to the conspiracy theories, making figures up and basically lying in order to convince yourself what you unconsciously know to be true, that your government is keeping a lot from you for their benefit, not yours.

You ignored my points about the futility of pretending that we can go into the deep what ifs and but ifs regarding demolition specifics. I have only expained it about thirty times in this thread alone. But I did argue the social psychological absurdity of the concept that the vast majority of actual experts would be completely quiet about something that even you can notice regarding severe corruption concerning the tragedy at the center of the biggest news story in history. Do I need to explain that one more time?

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

You showed the injured living disrespect through support of Rudolf Giuiliani who has doen jack shit for the survivors of the catastrophe or the city health problems that ensued the disaster. You showed the uninjured living disrespect by letting their courageous efforts be twisted for the purposes of a corrupt government. Now 'pologize mother fucker.

Guiliani's government did a lot for the survivors, and now Giuliani wants to lead the fight against the Islamofascism that caused the attacks. I have no idea what you are talking about regarding courageous efforts being twisted.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Now 'pologize mother fucker.

Wow, look at how personally insulting you get when you keep losing arguments. My best suggestion on that insult is for you to get your mother off the streets. Then apologize to the 9/11 victims and rescue workers for being so incredibly dishonest about what it is that happened to them. Man, you are seriously disturbed. I know why. Would you like for me to send you a PM and explain it to you? Chill out with this personal maliciousness. The site has rules on how far that can go, and if you want to keep pushing it, I will just see about getting you banned. Got it?