Thread: 9/11 Conspiracy

Are you being saracastic? I can't tell.

That theory is wrong.

No I know it's wrong, but it does make sense as a very possible conclusion. There's video evidence of the owner of building 7 claiming they felt they had to pull it because of the risk it posed. It makes sense that the government would cover that up, and I mean frankly it feels weird that we can occupy countries all over the world with absolutely no repercussions. To think we were invincible enough that the only attack landed on us was by our own government is absurd. It's not absurd that our own government would attack us, but that we are invulnerable. This attack was coming for years, the CIA has been warning us about our presence in other countries claiming this was exactly what we were risking.

Okay, so I jumped the gun on ALL the evidence (like that the terrorists apparently never got on the planes, or that there were bombs going off in the basement before the planes hit), but evidence for 9/11 isn't exactly a black and white thing, either. There's spinning of the facts going on on both sides, mostly the anti-conspiracy theorists. Yeah, and I mean feel free to argue me next time instead of giving some bullshit response.

Universal this is my point. We are looking to gather a full report and proper investigation to punish those responsible for what happened. We are getting justice. This war in Iraq is ridiculous. We have proven many official reports to be fabrications that was also written by people who have known to have written other fraudulent reports in the past.

So since we have already figured this much out. We are in the process of creating and initiating a means and expression for a proper investigation and report via evidence of what we do know about what happened. Enough support is already gained that the truth has forced independent researches and others qualified to investigate that have interest in making justice possible. Which is and will continue to expose the criminals involved.

I don't care what fox news says. As that organization is totally discredited and irresponsible, scripted, and motivated by corporate welfare. I only take independent intelligent journalist that do their own research and reporting and that are able and willing to understand what is going on for the good of the people and not their own greed.


Latest report by Keith Olbermann

Recent Alex Jones GNN Interview - Unanswered Questions

Steven Jones & Kevin Ryan Debunk the NIST Report

There is a lot of information in those reports that I do not wish to type out word for word. A summary cannot do it justice. Please view the reports and then you will have a solid foundation on which to reply to my post. Otherwise if you don't take a look at the information available it will waste our time.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Mystic, I asked for the story of what happened. You are the one saying the story happened, and I am asking the obvious question of what that story is. You won't even tell me that. What is it? I told the story of what I think would have had to have happened according to your perspective and asked you to correct it where you think it needs to be corrected. Let's see it.

I get my news from many sources, and I don't trust any organization that has nothing to lose by lying. I am also trying to understand things even better by getting to the bottom of your perspective. Do you want me to understand your perspective or not? Why are you even posting in this thread if you don't want to communicate in regard to other people's specific areas of doubt? You are being totally evasive. I see that as a sign that you don't really believe what you are saying. If you are not going to address my points and answer my questions, then this conversation is pretty much over. I told the 9/11 story as it would have apparently happened according to your perspective. Now YOU tell what YOU claim is the REAL story of the conspiracy, or just one that is possible EVEN IN THEORY, if you actually believe such a thing happened.

So far, all you are doing is basically arguing the theist part of this conversation...

Theist: The Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe.
Atheist: Why do you think that?
Theist: You can't prove that it's not true.
Atheist: It is not my job to prove it is not true. You made the claim, so prove it.
Theist: If the big bang really happened, how do you explain the fourth energy level quark combustion leading to ionization of chromium binary molecules in the Zandar Howdy Doody Nebula? There are a few physicists in the entire world who agree that it disproves the big bang.
Atheist: I don't really know enough about that subject to argue too much of it, but I do know that the vast masses of actual physicists are not making an issue of it. Why aren't they?
Theist: Aha! The Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe!
Atheist: Oh yeah? Tell me the story of the Flying Spaghetti Monster's creation of the universe.
Theist: Here's another link about the Zandar Howdy Doody Nebula. Explain it away!
Atheist: I am not going to pretend to be a physicist. I am not qualified to argue all angles, possible confoundings, rival explanations, loopholes, and possible misconceptions of that issue. But tell me the story of the Flying Spaghetti Monster's creation of the universe, since you claim it happened.
Theist: Here is another link about the Zandar Howdy Doody Nebula.
Atheist: If you won't tell your own story, then I will give it a try. Okay, wheat grew on a planet in another dimension and evolved into a flying organism with eyes and the ability to create a universe.....(long story)... The End. If you disagree with that story, tell the real one, or at least one that could even possibly be real.
Theist: Here is another link about the Zandar Howdy Doody Nebula from atheistshavesexwithpigs.com. How do you explain away that objective source's findings?
Atheist: Once again, I don't know enough about the subject to argue all angles and possibilities of it. Tell me this story about the Flying Spaghetti Monster's creation of the universe, since you claim it happened.
Theist: Stop getting your information from the Science Channel! You are a spammer of ignorance who is only trying to deceive! I am being nice and patient with you.

So basically, we are here...

lol. Universal in reality this is a much more accurate reflection of what is happening with us.

Mystic7: Evidence proves these official reports are inaccurate
Theist: What is your theory? Otherwise your debunked
Mystic7: It's not a theory it's what is proved.
Theist: But what is your theory of what happened otherwise your theist.
Mystic7: I don't theorize. It's what I know for sure. These official reports are false.
Theist: What really happened? Otherwise they are true.
Mystic7: I'm not going to speculate, I'm just showing the evidence.
Theist: You are evasive.
Mystic7: Why do you still back these official reports when there is evidence they are false.
Theist: Because your evidence does not come with any theory.

Get the picture? Who is the religious nutcase?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I asked for the story of what happened. You are the one saying the story happened, and I am asking the obvious question of what that story is.

??????

Mystic7: This is the evidence the official reports are false.
Theist: Since you claim this story. What is your story?
Mystic7: No this is the evidence.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I told the 9/11 story as it would have apparently happened according to your perspective. Now YOU tell what YOU claim is the REAL story of the conspiracy, or just one that is possible EVEN IN THEORY, if you actually believe such a thing happened.

I have the evidence the official reports are false. Your asking me to speculate on a theory. While not telling me why you still back what I have disproved. Speculations aside

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

So far, all you are doing is basically arguing the theist part of this conversation...

That is a mischaracterization. The "theory" you kept saying in that dialogue I am ignoring is something I have not been ignoring. I have told you that the experts who make your claim are incredibly obscure and that if their claim were true, the vast masses of experts would be making at least some noise about it. They are not doing that. Why does that not even begin to set off alarm bells in your mind? They do not agree with the obscure claims you are so quick to cling to regarding the biggest news story in the history of the world. So it is not as simple as, "It has been proven." The general world of engineering, architecture, construction, and demolition disagrees with the claim you cling to so faithfully. They don't even blink at it. And very importantly, your point goes way beyond the mere stance that the government's reports are false. You do go from there to the conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job. Your dialogue presented the notion that no such conclusion is reached based on the reports. You are not merely claiming that the government's claims are false. You are saying that the government did an inside 9/11 job. Are you not????? So I am asking you how it would even be POSSIBLE that such a thing happened, since as you can see by my satirical story it is a profoundly absurd idea.

Theist: I was only claiming in the earlier dialogue that the official report on ionization in the Zandar Howdy Doody Nebula is false. I believe that because 30 physicists in the world have explained it on atheistshavesexwithpigs.com and nonbelieversarerotten.org.
Atheist: No, you were also claiming that the findings prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. I have already explained in many different ways how such an idea involves a great deal of absurdity.
Theist: But you can't explain away what I said about the Zandar Howdy Doody Nebula.
Atheist: Well those who can are the supermajority by a trillion miles, and they don't take your claims seriously at all. So being the nonexpert that I am, I am not going to just jump up and accept your very obscure claims and leap from there to the conclusion that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. Do you understand? Now tell me even just a possible story of how the Flying Spaghetti Monster could have created the universe.

A good analogy of the way reincarnation works can be found in the movie "Groundhog Day" starring funny man Bill Murray. In the movie, Bill Murray played a man who suddenly discovered that he's continuously reliving the same day over and over again. Every day was identical to the one before it with the same events happening and the same people saying the same things. The only difference was the man played by Bill Murray who remembered all the previous days and therefore learned to adapt to his strange situation.

Universal. It is my belief that it is a reasonable conclusion 911 is an inside job. But I am not arguing a theory to you. I am arguing against your fantasy. Which is that the official reports are not false.

I don't care if 1 million lemmings have a certain belief. 1 person with a brain that does superior experiments and debunks the lemmings cancels out the lemmings television fantasy.

[I]

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Universal. It is my belief that it is a reasonable conclusion 911 is an inside job. But I am not arguing a theory to you. I am arguing against your fantasy. Which is that the official reports are not false.

And I keep telling why I disagree with your claims about the reports and your leap to the conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job. What you are basically saying is this...

The United States government caused remote control military airplanes to hit the two towers of the World Trade Center and a field in the middle of nowhere and caused a missile to hit the Pentagon during work hours. I can't explain how they made remote control devices appear to be pilots or what they did with the real airplanes and the people who worked on them or how they made the people on the airplanes think they were being hijacked by Middle Eastern terrorists or how they created background hijack noises for people on the other ends of cell phone conversations or why people at the Pentagon desperately wanted to keep their jobs at a place that was attacked by a missile fired at them by their bosses or why so astronomically many people would dare to take the risk of proposing such an astoundingly evil and big time risky plan to each other and happen to agree to it and never leak what they did, but I believe it happened any way.

If you ever figure out how your story could have possibly happened, let me know. Until then, I am not going to believe it.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I keep telling why I disagree with your claims about the reports and your leap to the conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job. What you are basically saying is this...

haha Universal I am not backing your theory you are putting in my mouth. It is not a leap of a conclusion. I am not claiming any story. I am providing evidence. You have not provided any reason why my evidence is false. All you said is many people say so. Even that statement from you is false. You never addressed any facts or my evidence. You won't even look at it. You are too busy making up stories and putting them in my mouth and then saying you don't believe what you just made up. Well that's good because it's not to do with the evidence I posted. Talk about mischaracterization. Your story about my conclusions was full of it. And I'm not even saying you have to believe in anything not proven. You just fail to recognize evidence to begin with.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

haha Universal I am not backing your theory you are putting in my mouth.

That last thing was not a theory. It was a characterization of the fact that you can't tell any of the major parts of your own story.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

You have not provided any reason why my evidence is false. All you said is many people say so.

Wrong. I didn't say "many people". I said "THE MASSES OF EXPERTS". I thought you would be tired of repeating that defeated lie by now.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster crashed those buildings. If you don't think so, explain away this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...stic_equations

Um, there is no need to tell a story if you have evidence the official reports are disproved. Your just as responsible to find a new theory of what happened as I am. The only difference between my theory is I know it's reasonable while you think yours is proved when it's already refuted. Atleast my conclusions are based on something. And the so called masses of experts, are a phantom of your imagination. As my evidence still presents a major problem to what you believe while you fail to address the issue. While you try to explain away the circumstantial evidence I conclude you are meanwhile believing in what is disproved already. Not a smart thing.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Um, there is no need to tell a story if you have evidence the official reports are disproved. Your just as responsible to find a new theory of what happened as I am.

Wrong. You claim something happened, so the responsibility is on you to explain how it could possibly happen when it defies so many areas of logic. You cannot clear up my areas of disagreement, and I am not talking about things it would take an expert to thoroughly argue about, such as what in the Hell could have possibly happened to the real airplanes and why friends and relatives heard hijackings and reports of hijackings on the fake airplanes.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

And the so called masses of experts, are a phantom of your imagination.

Right. The few engineers you have referenced are the only ones in the entire world. Awesome point.

I am not claiming some unearned expert opinion. Anybody can thoroughly understand that something would have happened to the real airplanes without the workers or any of their bosses anywhere on the ladder making a public issue of it, hijackings would have to have been faked on the fake airplanes, workers at the Pentagon would have decided to keep their jobs even though their bosses fired a missile at the building while they were in it as part of the biggest and most evil lie of all time, tons of people would have been involved in the conspiracy and had to have all been more evil than the worst of serial killers, there would have been no leaks to the public at large, and the demolition reports would have fooled the masses of experts but not punks on the internet. Those are all facts that can be thoroughly understood by the general public. You believe in something that is absurd and impossible.

I thought of something else. Let's say that the insane airplane and missile stunt I have repeatedly shown would be impossible to pull off would not actually be impossible. Let's go to the land of the unicorns for a moment and pretend that. You say the government had bombs in the WTC and blew it up with them and that that is how the buildings really fell. Wouldn't it have been much easier to just blow up the buildings and not worry about the insane measures necessary to fake airplane hijackings and crash them into the buildings and then blow them up? Why wouldn't they just blow up the buildings and blame it on terrorists who acted in the style of the WTC bombers of 1993? Why pull this outrageous airplane stuff?

Why wouldn't they just blow up the buildings and blame it on terrorists who acted in the style of the WTC bombers of 1993? Why pull this outrageous airplane stuff?

Firstly you need to realize your not debating fairly or relevantly to my points. That's not how you debate. Your constantly using defamation. Second you could ask bin laden the same stupid question. Not everyone can know every aspect of what happened just because they are present on the day. Your confused about how your culture really works. That is part of your culture by the way.

1) I study the occult and I recognize it as a ritual and it's esoteric meaning is beyond you. 911 is what you use to call emergency help. In numerology it has a meaning and again all that is beyond you. Now you have no idea what any of this is symbolizing. As you know nothing about it. While I have studied the esoteric in society. The implications to me is something you are not aware of through your entire life.

2) Something less mysteries is people would question the ability for some bin laden group to collapse the center piece of materialism in new york. The towers. They would find it equally difficult that the pentagon was attacked with some missile by bin laden and gang. Most are not aware of their own nations security, military and how it functions obviously. As the pentagon cannot not prevent a plane hitting it. You have to disable the security for that to happen.

P.S. If you really want to know what I think of 911. You need to go deep down the rabbit hole before your even in a place to understand. But just for laughs I'll tell you. 911 is not only planned. But it's exposure as an inside job is also planned. Not only it's exposure planned. But the entire revolution has being set up from the beginning by people with more wisdom than you. Even herd of the esoteric order of the golden dawn? freemasonry? None of these names ring a bell?

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Firstly you need to realize your not debating fairly or relevantly to my points. That's not how you debate. Your constantly using defamation.

I have explained the illogic of your belief. That is extremely relevant.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Your confused about how your culture really works. That is part of your culture by the way.

1) I study the occult and I recognize it as a ritual and it's esoteric meaning is beyond you. 911 is what you use to call emergency help. In numerology it has a meaning and again all that is beyond you. Now you have no idea what any of this is symbolizing. As you know nothing about it. While I have studied the esoteric in society. The implications to me is something you are not aware of through your entire life.

Pure defamation mixed with the land of the unicorns. You did not clear up my specific areas of skepticism by putting me down personally for not subscribing to another one of your irrational philosophies.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

2) Something less mysteries is people would question the ability for some bin laden group to collapse the center piece of materialism in new york. The towers. They would find it equally difficult that the pentagon was attacked with some missile by bin laden and gang. They need the plane accident effect to dupe the public into little men out of no-where could infiltrate and do it. As they have been watching Hollywood movies and believe this crap. That the administration is incompetent enough that one day not watching it was a surprise.

If terrorists used bombs again after the increased security, that would have been even scarier. Your hypothesis does not hold water.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

That's truly how dumb masses have become about their government and it's culture. That they are not even aware of their own nations security, military and how it functions. Some don't even know there is secret police. People are really disconnected to the secrecy that is used. They think everything is out in the open all the time. It's not like that. Something is only out in the open when secret societies say it is. Unless people expose it by playing the same game.

This is REALLY starting to get interesting. Do you relate your secret police ideas to the UFO conspiracies involving Bigfoot? Seriously, do you?

Tell me about your superior culture we should all be jealous of, not that you are jealous of us or anything.

Lets make it more interesting

911 PROPHECY

we are getting really scientific now.......

Okay. I agree with you now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FlJeoiZxVk

I admit that I am a big believer in the New World Order and that nothing can stop its total domination. There is evidence of its coming major power status on video, and you can see here that the New World Order is serious business you shouldn't mess with...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dmrauVw1k...related&search=

Um... the elitist NWO advocates are definitely not going to conquer the planet but they're going to give us a run for our money, that's for sure.

And I wasn't saying um like I'm stammering, Um is just my nickname for universal mind.

And you don't have to take it seriously, I don't. I just believe there are people in tbhis planet that do. They are rich, powerful people that literally think they should install a world government with themselves at the top. While they could never succeed, in trying to do so they will bring about tragedies just like 9/11 over and over again.

Anyway I agree with mystic7. Your original story was a mischaracterization because you were placing mystic in the theist role but mystic admits he wasn't there and doesn't know what happened, he just knows that the official story is impossible and therefore the people that have propagated it should be held accountable so that we CAN find out what really happened.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Um... the elitist NWO advocates are definitely not going to conquer the planet but they're going to give us a run for our money, that's for sure.

Be sure you click the link if you didn't already so you can at least get a peek and see why I said what I did.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Anyway I agree with mystic7. Your original story was a mischaracterization because you were placing mystic in the theist role but mystic admits he wasn't there and doesn't know what happened, he just knows that the official story is impossible and therefore the people that have propagated it should be held accountable so that we CAN find out what really happened.

Mystic goes way beyond that. If his entire point were that the official story has holes in it, my approach to debating him would be completely different. He does not stop there. He goes from there and does an Evel Knieval over the Grand Canyon style jump to the conclusion that the goverment committed the 9/11 attacks and even goes into detail about remote control imposter airplanes and ignored missiles, an idea I have illustrated is full of a multitude of profound absurdities. That is where he goes from merely overestimating his ability to understand the complex sea of ins and outs and but ifs and what ifs of engineering and ignoring the severe absence of a very real social phenomenon and leaps all the way to the land of Oz. It is just like ancient people who heard thunder and concluded that Zulubulu the Lord of Thunder was making it happen. That is why I put him in the theist role in the satirical dialogue. The idea that the government made the 9/11 attacks happen is about as possible as the existence of Zulubulu and cannot be concluded just because of a lack of knowledge of an alternative explanation. It is light years past the fringes of reality. Seeing problems in the government's report, which as I have argued I don't think he can be sure are there and is an idea that has an enormous hole in itself, is not a sufficient basis for claiming stuff that just doesn't make any sense.

If his entire point were that the official story has holes in it, my approach to debating him would be completely different.

There is more than 1 official story. Each one has been disproved. I provided information before we started joking around the other night. You don't debate properly. You just want to talk about remote control devices.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

You don't debate properly. You just want to talk about remote control devices.

Again I agree with mystic7. You can't just claim that someone is acting crazy because they make a claim. Your attacks against his claim were fallacal... fallac... whatever.

It's the same thing with the JFK assassination. The official story is impossible, and by trying to hold people accountable and then watching them nervously slide past the issue we saw how obvious it is there was a conspiracy there. That doesn't mean we know for a fact who was responsible, though. We just know what's impossible, and whatever's left, no matter how improbable, is the truth. Who are the suspects for 9/11? Who, besides the people that could not have possibly committed the attacks, stood to gain from them? There are a whole lot of suspects, but the only ones who could have have possibly done this and were even possibly motivated to commit this crime are members of our country's upper class.

It's not like our government hasn't done it before, anyway. How do you think we started the Mexican American war?