Thread: Lets talk about drugs!

6 years ago.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2001/02/23/ncrim123.gif

And drugs were around 6 years ago too. My post shows that drugs aren't something you can use as an excuse for high crime rates. There are obviously bigger problems than drugs in this country causing high crime rates.

Sandform. I'm sorry to bring you some bad news, but moral Dictatorship is yet again the policiy of these Forums I'm affraid.

You can expect this (good!) thread to undergo the same fate of mine: That of being deleted in the name of Drug-discussion censorship. My Topic "Trip Reports: Psychedelic Experiences shared" was removed eventhough I had previously, over a year ago, made a deal with The Moderators and Admins here that I wouldn't deliberately Stimulate people to do Psychedelic drugs (Which is certainly not my intention and has never been) as long as they would tolerate my deviant view on this subject.

They allowed the discussion to exist, because I argumented well that the freedom to express alternating views was morally surpressed by the morals of Admins and Mods. They seem to have understood and allowed it and it has since grown to be one of the oldest, still going, topic with almost the most posts in it.

Yet without any excuse it was recently removed and the only explanation I got was from an Admin saying this in a PM:
Trip Reports thread

This is a courtesy note to let you know that your thread on trip reports has been removed. The decision has nothing to do with you personally; we have returned to our former policy of allowing drug discussion only when it is relevant to dreaming.

Thank you.

nice words for such bad news, but it doesn't make it any less sour.

I think I've kinda had it with this forum:
-Everyday the meaningfull topics disappear under a thick layer of "Need help with WILD"-like topics and other useless qestions that have allready 5 topics devoted to them. And the mods don't see this as a problem appearantly.

-And it seems like I am not free to express my opinion and share valuable experiences on sensative subjects since it is different than the opinions that the (conservative, intolerant) Admins of this forum share about these sensative subjects.

It's back to the "The religion of the King is the Religion of the people"-policy again where you're not allowed to discuss, let alone praise and share information about subjects that THEY find immoral based on "what everybody sais about it".

Well maybe it's about time I start raising my own forum together with some other, openminded, serious dreamers. A simple and small one that keeps out narrowminded people who only come to argue everything, dictate their moral views on everyone and non-serious dreamers that fill this forum up with a pile of crap, all similair topics.

I'll check these forums out for a while and if our freedom to discuss certain sensative subjects gets even more limited I'm outa here.

I'm just going to follow MLKs advice, they only way to change bad laws is to break them.

Peopel this Topic will most probably soon be deleted. It seems the current new staff of mods and admins have agreed to shut down all drug-related topics. If my freedom of discussing wonderfull, otherwordly, responsible and respectable experiences is being taken away from me I don't feel very welcome here at all.

I'm gunna leave these forums soon.
SO much for discussing the intrueging insights into other worlds as a result of ingesting psychedelics.

Hmm, oh well. Drugs aren't very important anyway, its like saying that we should discuss t.v. on a regular basis hehe.

Well, lets see. I've always wondered if there were negative side effects to taking Aspirin daily in order to prevent heart disease. Much of the way your body works is through inflammation and I can't see how it could be that great to take an anti-inflammatory on a regular basis. Honestly though, this topic is pretty much pointless. Its people who talk about drugs just for the sake of talking about them that give them a negative connotation in my mind. Its the people that are so driven by substances that its all they can think about, but when it actually comes down to it they don't even come up with anything meaningful on the topic; the best they can do is 'hey guys, wanna talk about drugs again?"

This doesn't even only apply to drug abusers; it goes for the kids who really haven't done anything, but think just mentioning the big D word makes their status rise a notch. If you really want my opinion, here it is. Either do them or don't, but don't talk about it. If drugs are supposed to be fun and or enlightening then you should be able to come up with something to actually talk about besides, 'hey aren't drugs cool?' and if you don't think they're fun or inspirational then just leave it alone and let others live their lives how they wish.

Originally Posted by SKA

Peopel this Topic will most probably soon be deleted. It seems the current new staff of mods and admins have agreed to shut down all drug-related topics. If my freedom of discussing wonderfull, otherwordly, responsible and respectable experiences is being taken away from me I don't feel very welcome here at all.

I'm gunna leave these forums soon.
SO much for discussing the intrueging insights into other worlds as a result of ingesting psychedelics.

This is exactly the kind of shit I'm talking about. Your mind is so completely opposite to expanded that without this one single topic to talk about, you can't think of anything at all and therefore must leave. Well I say good riddance to bad rubbish if thats the case.

Xaqaria, that was rude and uncalled for.l Ska's posts, I think most members will agree, are extremly interesting and thought -provoking.
Freedom of speech should be exercised fully on a forum dedicated to something as strange and mystical as lucid dreaming. Shamans are dedicated to pursuing lucidty through the use of physcdelics. Your response is digusting and so is the action of the administators. I suggest a topic in the meta forum section where we can all list ideas for solvng this problem.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

This is exactly the kind of shit I'm talking about. Your mind is so completely opposite to expanded that without this one single topic to talk about, you can't think of anything at all and therefore must leave. Well I say good riddance to bad rubbish if thats the case.

It's also, primairlily actually, forum-troll people like you, that has mde the once so good atmosphere here ruined and hostile.

And how is it you feel you are in the position to judge me as " bad rubbish"? You don't even know a damn thing about me.
How can you say my mind is opposite of expanded? You dont know me?

People like you turn every potentially usefull discussions into flaming arguments. It's people with an aditude like yours that ruin the good discussion and overall atmosphere of this forum.

You seem like a very angry, frustrated person. One of those that are convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong.
How old are you? I hope you're still young and therefor naieve. It would be an excuse for your rude and mindless behaviour.

In defense of SKA, I think he's a valuable member of the forum. I'll admit that I'm on the side that discourages wanton drug talk around here. But I also feel that SKA conducts his discussion in a more responsible manner than just about any other member we have. He's not just another reckless drug-talker.

That said, I'm still somewhat on the fence about exactly where the boundries should be set. But I don't believe that SKA deserves to be talked to that way. Especially since he's probably the most qualified and responsible member to "go there".

I don't understand. How is discussing drugs on DV a problem? Why would Mods and Admins close down drug-related topics?

Because they're Asshats

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Honestly though, this topic is pretty much pointless. Its people who talk about drugs just for the sake of talking about them that give them a negative connotation in my mind. Its the people that are so driven by substances that its all they can think about, but when it actually comes down to it they don't even come up with anything meaningful on the topic; the best they can do is 'hey guys, wanna talk about drugs again?"

Hey, thanks for reading the entire thread Xaqaria. It's obvious everyone who's replied in this thread is a substance-driven junky, right? Haha, way to go.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

This doesn't even only apply to drug abusers; it goes for the kids who really haven't done anything, but think just mentioning the big D word makes their status rise a notch.

Something I said:

Originally Posted by CoLd BlooDed

It's unfortunate you can't weed out the unresponsibles and dependents otherwise recreational drug use would be just that, recreational. Not an excuse to escape problems or be 'accepted' and prove your hardcore. Drugs are not meant to boost your popularity.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

If you really want my opinion, here it is. Either do them or don't, but don't talk about it. If drugs are supposed to be fun and or enlightening then you should be able to come up with something to actually talk about besides, 'hey aren't drugs cool?'

Take a look, it's apparent you haven't read a thing. Who really said 'hey aren't drugs cool?' That hasn't even been close to the majority of the conversation. I feel the thread title is somewhat misleading, but the content is quite different for the most part. There's probably been two people in this entire thread who has said "DRUGS R AWSUM".

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

and if you don't think they're fun or inspirational then just leave it alone and let others live their lives how they wish

And what are you doing right now?

That's all I'll say. No more good can come out of this thread.

Originally Posted by imran_p

Because they're Asshats

Well actually I was looking for more of a summary of the problems caused by drug related discussion, but your explanation works just as well. :p

I don't think this is such an easy issue. I can see where the administrators are coming from, and I don't think they see it as an easy issue. They have probably done a good bit of thinking and discussion on it. The problem is that psychedelic drugs are relevant to lucid dreaming because what they produce is something very much like a lucid dream. Lucid dreams involve partial waking in a dream state, and psychedelic drug experiences involve partial dreaming in a waking state. They are opposite positions in the same spectrum. Plus, DMT is the neurotransmitter involved in the bizarre and mind expanding aspects of dreaming, and it is also the grand master of all psychedelic drugs. It is found in both the pineal gland and plants that grow in South America. So psychedelic drug experiences do very much relate to lucid dreaming. However, psychedelic drugs are also part of the forbidden fruit category of the evil and hated taboo that comes under the general heading of "drugs". That puts them in a hated category with heroin, crack, and crystal meth even though most psychedelic drugs and all of the most commonly used psychedelic drugs are not addictive or lethal. The administrators here don't want their site or lucid dreaming to be associated with the taboo labelled "drugs", especially since most psychedelic drugs are illegal and because a lot of the members here are teenagers. Plus, talk about mushrooms and DMT can easily spill right over into talk about fun with opiates and so forth, even though opiates and so forth are an entirely different subcategory of "drugs". That has happened in this thread. So the issue is tricky.

Originally Posted by Neruo

I think every (adult) person has the right to put into their body whatever they want, along as they don't hurt other people.

I think that this post pretty much says it all.

prohibiting mentioning psychedelics in a dreaming forum is like prohibiting mentioning snow on a skiing forum.

Listen, i know you may all turn on me now for saying this but lucid dreaming is supposed to be a fun experience that you can explore, if you haven't already noticed, this is a Lucid Dreaming forum and i think that discussing the use of drugs can be a bit irresponsible, i mean sure you could say that taking a particular drug is fine with you but what if a young member comes and reads it, then decides "What the hell, they did it, why can't i?" and this could put them in serious danger.

I think that talking about drugs is bad for this forum, there is no need for it because it is a lucid dreaming forum, not even for induction techniques to induce lucid dreams using them. Its bad because it can encourage those who are younger to do things that are illegal and its putting their life in danger.

Remember, its a Lucid Dreaming forum, not a drugs forum.

Personally I don't like censorship.

Possible Idea! I think the concerns of the Mods/Admins is of course the "kids" or teenagers etc that use the forum. Can't they just have a drug/substance (legal or illegal doesnt matter) folder that give that gives a pop-up box with a legal disclaimer that in a sense protects (legality wise) DV. I mean even legal substances/supplements could possibly do damaged if used wrong or the correct precautions were not taken.

I think SKA's post are intelligent and well thought out topics. Some drug related and others that are not. He would be missed from this forum. This forum gets bombarded with the same topics (with new threads mind you) over and over!!! Seems pointless if nothing new is brought to the table.

Man, I wouldn't expect Dreamviews to sink as low as censorship.

Anyone knows any sites where there also are cool people, but non-fascistic moderators?

Originally Posted by Lucid Seeker

Remember, its a Lucid Dreaming forum, not a drugs forum.

By following that logic we should also delete the entire off-topic forum, right?

Originally Posted by Neruo

Man, I wouldn't expect Dreamviews to sink as low as censorship.

Anyone knows any sites where there also are cool people, but non-fascistic moderators?

http://www.dreamport.net seems like a nice new place.

Originally Posted by Lucid Seeker

Listen, i know you may all turn on me now for saying this but lucid dreaming is supposed to be a fun experience that you can explore, if you haven't already noticed, this is a Lucid Dreaming forum and i think that discussing the use of drugs can be a bit irresponsible, i mean sure you could say that taking a particular drug is fine with you but what if a young member comes and reads it, then decides "What the hell, they did it, why can't i?" and this could put them in serious danger.

I think that talking about drugs is bad for this forum, there is no need for it because it is a lucid dreaming forum, not even for induction techniques to induce lucid dreams using them. Its bad because it can encourage those who are younger to do things that are illegal and its putting their life in danger.

Remember, its a Lucid Dreaming forum, not a drugs forum.

I can see a lot of that view, especially the part about illegality (along with my earlier stated view about not wanting this site or lucid dreaming to be associated with something as taboo as drugs), but I have seen evidence that some people who post here see no distinction between the lethal high drugs that are addictive and the nonlethal trip drugs that are not addictive (Though they can cloud judgment and interfere with driving ability and so forth and induce psychotic episodes in people who are already psychotic.). The U.S. government and most governments do not acknowledge the difference either. They are two very completely different things. Aside from the legality issue, alcohol is much more in a category with heroin and cocaine than mushrooms and mescaline are, and there has been a gung-ho alcohol thread at the top of Senseless Banter for ages. But alcohol is not a taboo subject because it is legal for adults and society at large does not really see alcohol as a drug, which I think is extremely insane. I don't think there is much reason for being against discussion about driving a Honda Accord to the store on the basis that Nascar racing is very life-threatening. The term "drugs" is very broad. But again, it is a taboo subject about stuff that is illegal in most cases.

I think these kids are exposed to much more talk about drugs IN SCHOOL than on any board. Not to mention the talk at school is mostly a bunch of stupid kids bragging shit like "I was SO WAISTED that I blah blah" certainly not a intelligent conversation about psychedelics. You can't hide the real world from kids, that's just impossible. Fuck censorship, if that's the way its going to be I'm leaving too.