Thread: May 2008 (LHC) Particle Accelerator - Miracle or Catastrophe?

The only thing I could see as being a problem is if something goes terribly wrong, and somehow a self-sustaining black hole is created. Although part of me doubts we're far enough along with science to create black holes. The other part of me hopes we aren't far enough along, because just one is all it takes to destroy everything we've ever known.

I think we'll be fine though.... for now. At least until we start making black hole generators. Then we will be in trouble for sure.

Originally Posted by Schmaven

The only thing I could see as being a problem is if something goes terribly wrong, and somehow a self-sustaining black hole is created. Although part of me doubts we're far enough along with science to create black holes. The other part of me hopes we aren't far enough along, because just one is all it takes to destroy everything we've ever known.

I think we'll be fine though.... for now. At least until we start making black hole generators. Then we will be in trouble for sure.

On Coast 2 Coast AM, they're always freaking out and talking about how the LHC could and I quote "blowup the universe" lol.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

On Coast 2 Coast AM, they're always freaking out and talking about how the LHC could and I quote "blowup the universe" lol.

They are on crack, the universe is way too big for little ol us who started what...50 years ago? to destroy. Sure, the universe is full of atoms but still....to even think of it is, just crazy and nuts and i hardly know anything about science.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Stop posting visual retardations.

Also, the Particle Accelerator is completely safe. Even if it is, it isn't.

FACT

Considering the tests they have done that were sucessfull, it has to be safe right? all tests that were done have been sucessfull according to their site.

Talked about this at work, some new about it some didn't. Nobody at work likes it, saying we should not be allowed to have this power, or we could destroy the world. It's safe as you said, worst case senerio is the Earth gets sucked into a black hole but that's what...a 0.01% chance?

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Considering the tests they have done that were sucessfull, it has to be safe right? all tests that were done have been sucessfull according to their site.

Talked about this at work, some new about it some didn't. Nobody at work likes it, saying we should not be allowed to have this power, or we could destroy the world. It's safe as you said, worst case senerio is the Earth gets sucked into a black hole but that's what...a 0.01% chance?

They wouldn't do it, if there was a 1/10000 chance of the world getting sucked into a black hole... Now Chris Cornell gets what he wants... Hehe, jk... Black Hole Sun...

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Considering the tests they have done that were sucessfull, it has to be safe right? all tests that were done have been sucessfull according to their site.

Talked about this at work, some new about it some didn't. Nobody at work likes it, saying we should not be allowed to have this power, or we could destroy the world. It's safe as you said, worst case senerio is the Earth gets sucked into a black hole but that's what...a 0.01% chance?

Not even. At least, if you assume we know what black holes are. And we do. You need a ginormous sun, many times bigger than our sun, to have enough mass to sustain a black hole. The irony is, that even if something would suck up all of earth, there wouldn't be enough mass to sustian a black hole. People don't know what they are talking about.

Also, 'not allowed to have this power' is complete nonsense. Says who? (Even if you believe in god. In that case he shouldn't have made humans so curious.) We are not really dealing with power here at all. The energy that takes place when two protons at near-lightspeed collide is the same amount of energy of a collision between two flies, or less.

Originally Posted by Neruo

People don't know what they are talking about.

This.

There are several billion energetic reactions going on right now in the upper atmosphere of our planet that contain more than 100x the energy that the LHC is capable of producing in a collision. But we're still here.

I'll almost be glad if it does create a strange matter quark that pops the Earth out of existence in a fraction of a second. Then I won't have to hear about this damn Collider anymore. The same group that sued CERN through the Human Rights committee sued them when they turned the last Collider on. It didn't work then and it's not going to work now.

Let them get on with the science already.

I think they just need to explain what they're doing better so people don't have to make their own assumptions as to what's going on. All debates over whether or not they should run the experiment would be easy to decide if everyone knew exactly what they're trying to do and what the risks are.

I haven't looked into it, so they might have that info somewhere, I just haven't heard it yet.

Originally Posted by Schmaven

I think they just need to explain what they're doing better so people don't have to make their own assumptions as to what's going on. All debates over whether or not they should run the experiment would be easy to decide if everyone knew exactly what they're trying to do and what the risks are.

See, you're already talking about risks. There are no bloody risks, except maybe in a quench accident, which is basically taking the energy equivalent of a few sticks of TNT and releasing it in an explosion. But that's really all we're talking about. A few sticks of TNT is the sum total of all the energy in the LHC at any given time. The colliding particles have even less, at about the kinetic energy of a baseball.

Ah, but then you hear about these 'micro-singularities' and 'strangelets' and so on. But let's think critically for a moment, if possible. How the fuck do you know about strangelets in the first place? Oh yeah, because they were predicted by particle physicists. How do you know about singularities? Did you discover them in your personal studies of daytime TV? No. Physicists discovered them. Now let me ask you this: who are the ones telling you these things are going to end the world? Not particle physicists, or at least not active, working (published) physicists.

So, to briefly summarize, the guys that actually know what the fuck they're talking about and actually discovered the goddamn things are telling you there's no danger, and the guys that know dick all about physics are telling you you're gonna die in a few days. And you're listening to the guys that know dick all?

I bet anybody here ANY quantity of money that the world will not end tomorrow.

Large Hadron Rap

Originally Posted by drewmandan

So, to briefly summarize, the guys that actually know what the fuck they're talking about and actually discovered the goddamn things are telling you there's no danger, and the guys that know dick all about physics are telling you you're gonna die in a few days. And you're listening to the guys that know dick all?

No one can say with 100% certainty what will happen, that is why they're doing the test. The field of science is too big for one person to know everything there is to know, so different people know different amounts of stuff in each field. I don't really know how much either of the two groups know, but someone with a degree mentioned there may be some risks. I don't think you can just ignore him because someone else (who is on the project and wants to do the experiment) told you there wouldn't be risks. I am willing to bet that unemployed, unpublished physicists (of any specialization) know more about this subject than I do.

If someone with a solid understanding of physics has a concern, I think the concern at least needs to be looked at and an explanation given as to why that concern does not apply. Just saying, "well, we're smarter than you, and you're wrong." doesn't cut it in my book. I don't know if it's already been addressed or not, (I hope it has been), and I haven't heard the particle physicists' rebuttal as to why it will be safe, so I don't really have enough info to make a decision one way or another. But I'd rather error on the side of caution until things are worked out.

I don't think anything catastrophic will happen, but the smart course of action would be to account for shit like that, and double check just in case.

so you guys ready to die tomorrow?

Originally Posted by ranma187

so you guys ready to die tomorrow?

I was born ready, literally.

Scientists have switched on the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), the device they hope will unravel some of the remaining mysteries of the universe.

At 9.30 am local time (8.30 am British Summer Time), 300 feet below the Franco-Swiss border near Geneva, the most powerful particle accelerator ever built became fully operational.

The switch-on saw the first stream of subatomic particles - known as Hadrons - circulating in the tunnel. The first collisions are expected in around 30 days.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...scicern210.xml

W00t! It's on! But another 30 days...bummer. In addition to that, the real action won't start for a few more years. =/

I feel slightly cheated(I don't know if thats the right word).
I was under the impression that these basic(although important) tests have been going on since May-ish.
Another 30 days for the first collision and at least a year for any real action?!
This is like having pretty good sex that culminates in your partner falling asleep on top of you for a year before getting up to finish.

Checking out the LHC website or any other reputable source instead of falling for the massive hype that the media's once again stirred up for today for no reason would probably have been the right course of action.

Someone posted this on their little forum part at the cern website. Thought it was funny..


"If disaster movies have taught us anything, it is that only when the party is over and everyone is a little tipsy, the problems will arise.

At that point, one lowly scientist (possible of Asian origin) will still be working in his office - despite regular calls of 'Hu! It's all fine, come out here and have some champagne'. He shouts out 'In a minute, I'm just checking something' Then to himself 'This is wrong. This is all wrong. Planck's constant shouldn't be varying like that.'

And then it all goes wrong.

Jeez, were you born yesterday!

Mark my words... come Friday, we'll all be eating black holes for breakfast with lashings of superheated strange milk."

I hope two black holes pop up next to me and my body starts getting pulled in both directions with equal force...but since it effects all of my body (as opposed to if I were pulled by ropes) nothing happens and I just get to feel funny.

They'd have to somehow be formed so that they go into mutually exclusive orbits around Earth... but okay.

Originally Posted by Xei

They'd have to somehow be formed so that they go into mutually exclusive orbits around Earth... but okay.

I thought the reach of the holes they were going to create were very tiny...They could just follow around my head for a little while.

I went outside about 30 minutes ago and look what I saw in the sky.

Originally Posted by Sandform

I hope two black holes pop up next to me and my body starts getting pulled in both directions with equal force...but since it effects all of my body (as opposed to if I were pulled by ropes) nothing happens and I just get to feel funny.

a), being pulled in both directions constitutes a tension and would result in you being ripped apart, and b) tidal forces from being so close to two singularities would rip apart the two pieces formed by (a).