Thread: What do you think is the best form of government?

No one is denying that oil is expensive and will continue to get expensive - it's called scarcity. But it's still cheaper than going 100% green on your energy bill, so market forces drive consumers to the cheaper option. Economics 101.

http://www.truenergy.com.au/Resident...enEnergy.xhtml

Going 100% wind power will cost me $322/year more at 6000 kWhr's of usage. How is that cheaper? The fuzzy feel-good factor of doing the right thing doesn't always affect the bottom line.

No, it's called leverage. The oil companies have it down to a science exactly how much people will take before they need to start transitioning to alternative fuel. We're tied into their system, they have control. They were behind all the electric cars being recalled and decommissioned, and now they're killing the environment. They have no reason to switch because people will still pay outrageous prices for gas simply because there's no alternative. Oil companies and the politicians in their pockets have completely oppressed it, and people do nothing but blog their complaints. Nothing about that is a free market.

No one is denying that oil is expensive and will continue to get expensive - it's called scarcity.

Yeah and it will run out soon. How you can think you can justify using oil as the best thing in a free market. Is something that truly amazes me. Not just that you think your right. But how you willingly avoid proven results and the situation as it exists. Oil is definitely not the cheapest or most efficient energy source. Just the most avaliable within the infrastructure.

Representative democracy. Let's face it... The masses are not competent enough to decide everything, but they are competent enough to elect people who can do a sort of good job at deciding everything. Complete democracy can't work, but representative democracy does.

Democracy is the only legitimate form of government. Dictators, monarchies, oligarchies, and other totalitarian regimes are not elected and have no business controlling things. They should all be overthrown and replaced with democracies everywhere they exist. The entire rest of the world should be working together to make sure that happens in every case.

Communism. Yes, yes "impossible". I want people to become equals and live happily ever after. Until then I'll just rant about capitalism and compare it to slavery. Must not give up on humanity.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

I want people to become equals and live happily ever after.

Humans will never all be equal in terms of intelligence, skill, or motivation. Ever. Ever. Also, we will never have a world where the masses work hard just because it benefits the overall system. It is a very rare person that has it in him to consistently do that. Greed is the only thing that can make a nation work hard and be inventive. Even the fear of death is a weaker motivator than greed. Communist and socialist nations have proven that. We must deal with things accordingly.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Humans will never all be equal in terms of intelligence, skill, or motivation. Ever. Ever. Also, we will never have a world where the masses work hard just because it benefits the overall system. It is a very rare person that has it in him to consistently do that. Greed is the only thing that can make a nation work hard and be inventive. Even the fear of death is a weaker motivator than greed. Communist and socialist nations have proven that. We must deal with things accordingly.

Then we have to exterminate the cancer, if you know what I mean *wink* *wink*.

I know. But it's ok to dream. Besides, perhaps we'll have robot slaves in the future so the rest of the world can live a bit better than before or now.

Totalitarianism.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Representative democracy. Let's face it... The masses are not competent enough to decide everything, but they are competent enough to elect people who can do a sort of good job at deciding everything. Complete democracy can't work, but representative democracy does.

Democracy is the only legitimate form of government. Dictators, monarchies, oligarchies, and other totalitarian regimes are not elected and have no business controlling things. They should all be overthrown and replaced with democracies everywhere they exist. The entire rest of the world should be working together to make sure that happens in every case.

Hell yea, but that costs money. The individuals in the nation are the primary force to overthrow the government. Look a what happened in the Vietnam War.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

Hell yea, but that costs money. The individuals in the nation are the primary force to overthrow the government. Look a what happened in the Vietnam War.

The Vietnam War was one government versus one government, or two if you count the government that was pulling Vietnam's strings and that we were really fighting (and ended up defeating by erasing them from existence). What I am talking about is a world effort, not a one country effort.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The Vietnam War was one government versus one government, or two if you count the government that was pulling Vietnam's strings and that we were really fighting (and ended up defeating by erasing them from existence). What I am talking about is a world effort, not a one country effort.

True, but if they make allies, say Venezuela, Cuba, and Iran that is when conflict starts, and a world effort for a strong dictatorship in say Cuba, can let non democratic countries around the world realize their governments are sought to be reformed. I smell a WW3 if the U.N or some country mandates basic democratic rights for all people in the world.

The best solution would be offering global trade/economic support for countries that do support democracy. That is until revolutions take place, and we can supply them with ammo, or forces. It is better for a country to revolutionize itself, while we support them.

Of course there are countries in which the people are in complete oppression. That would be North Korea, or some African regions, where a plan is needed to be made by the U.N. Don't ask me for it though.

Democracy is based on the majority. It leaves minorities behind. Being a severe case of minority myself, I'm against it. (No, I'm not against freedom of expression and everything - those are two different things). #3

Communism is not humanly possible, though it would be the best if it were. #4

Parliaments are too bureaucratic and take ages to decide on even important factors. Plus, the parliament rarely represents the views of different social groups evenly. It's still better than representative democracy. #2

Military dictatorship - no. #6

Theocracy - theology is soooooooooooooooo medieval it hurts. No. #7

Totalitarianism - works only if the ruler is a good one. It may work or it may not. Either way, it's too much responsibility depending on a single person. #5

Constitutional monarchy is my choice. As long as it doesn't rely on heritage. #1

Greed is the only thing that can make a nation work hard and be inventive. Even the fear of death is a weaker motivator than greed

I thought greed and fear of death are rather bad things. How can bad things be good motivators.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Totalitarianism.

Why?

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

I thought greed and fear of death are rather bad things. How can bad things be good motivators.

Using fear of death as a motivator is not ethical and not effective enough any way. Greed is what makes people work to really succeed, and the success of individuals is what creates a successful nation. Greed has its problems and dangers, but it drives the world's greatest economies.

Greed has its problems and dangers, but it drives the world's greatest economies.

Maybe that is the problem in the first place. Perhaps greed is ruining the economies.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Maybe that is the problem in the first place. Perhaps greed is ruining the economies.

I said greed is what drives the world's greatest economies.

What kind of government do you suggest? Can you give an example of where it has ever worked well?

Haha well I govern myself. That has always been my preference and that seems to work better than anything else. I don't know how you would choose not to govern yourself.

Greed does not drive the greatest economies I think it ruins them. It ruins anyone.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Haha well I govern myself. That has always been my preference and that seems to work better than anything else. I don't know how you would choose not to govern yourself.

How does that answer my question? I was asking about forms of national government. Are you saying you are an anarchist?

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Greed does not drive the greatest economies I think it ruins them. It ruins anyone.

Do you know what countries have the best economies? Are you claiming they are not really capitalistic? Please give me some details and examples.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Yeah and it will run out soon. How you can think you can justify using oil as the best thing in a free market. Is something that truly amazes me. Not just that you think your right. But how you willingly avoid proven results and the situation as it exists. Oil is definitely not the cheapest or most efficient energy source. Just the most avaliable within the infrastructure.

I never said oil was the best source of energy - you're putting words in my mouth. I said according to scarcity, it is currently the most easily available energy source for the cost. People will only switch to renewables when the cost of solar/wind/hydro is equivalent to oil.

This tangent started because you claimed the free market doesn't work - it clearly DOES work, for allocation of resources. The market just doesn't give a shit about environmental factors or efficiency. Only the bottom line: how much will it cost me?

I chose totalitarianism. Although it doesn't really do much for individual rights, it's the most efficient system of government. The type I'm thinking of is the kind proposed by the book (and/or movie) Starship Troopers. A pretty dominating government that controls all aspects of life, but allows people to live happily. You have to work to become a 'citizen' - to gain more power within society. Society benefits in this way. Corporal punishment is an excellent deterrant and a very efficient way of keeping the peace. Backed up with a strong military/police presence, this government can't really be torn apart internally.

Alextanium I see what you mean now. You are talking about just individuals using it in the current infrastructure. At the moment definitely. But I was talking about the collective cost and the long term benifits from a different infrastructure built in. A change of the infrastructure would make oil obsolete and then individual cost would also be much cheaper.

Universal mind.
National forms of government. The truth is, everyone governs themself nationally too. lol. Wether you agree with it or not we all govern ourself. We live our life. No-one can live it for us. There is no need to make it anymore complex than that. It's easy. Just govern yourself and call it whatever you want to call it ok. It works. It's all that exists too. nothing else is even possible. I am entertained that you don't have a label for this stark naked obvious concept of nature yet. Something in front of your face and you don't have a label for it yet? Dear oh me. The closest you can find is anarchist. But that doesn't make sense. Because how can anarchy be the result of governing your own life and everyone doing the same. We already do it constantly you can't escape not governing it. But you ask if I am a anarchist anyway. In the other thread you asked if I was a scientologists. How can you honestly think I am both a scientologist and anarchist. Why are you really asking these questions relating to my sanity, to shut me up? That's what you're doing hey. Trying to label my views and myself into categories that suit you that are easy to then discredit, by the insulting way in which the labels are portrayed which does not, mind you. Have any reflection on my personal views. Which then distorts my entire character and what I stand for. Or maybe you just don't know any better? I will say it again so you don't ask later. And if you do there is something wrong. Try and understand I DO NOT subscribe to any labels or categories. I am not that simplistic nor that complex to be a this or a that. I do not wish to be defined to these categories as they do not fit me. I find all of them absolutely useless in my general discussion. Sorry.

Do you know what countries have the best economies? Are you claiming they are not really capitalistic? Please give me some details and examples.

I am pretty ignorant when it comes to the details of certain economies because It's not my particular interest. In general the best economies are those that are most independent, wealthy, pleasant to live in? etc. We could argue all day about which is a better economy and what it involves. The point is common sense tells me that greed is a bad thing. And no bad thing ever produced anything good. Before you try and study economics. You better begin with your foundational logic. And this is one of those things you need to understand before you can go any further.

The word capitalistic. What did I say about categories and labels? Yes, the only thing they are good for is to shove them where the sun don't shine to prevent the discussion degrading into pre-conceived notions that have no relevance to the core of anything I say. I can do without them so why can't you. Meet me on my own level. Try and do without them. I'd like to see you try. Thanks. I don't mean to be smart it just seems one does not have to think for themself if they can just collect enough labels and stick them to people as if trying to fill in a jigsaw puzzle with a Jigsaw puzzle machine they don't have to touch. Some claim it makes conversation easier. But it does the opposite. One with the category labeling sticker jigsaw puzzle machine doesn't have to even look at the full picture of what someone is saying. They can just label them and then it makes it all go away.

I don't think so. What's that?

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

I chose totalitarianism. Although it doesn't really do much for individual rights, it's the most efficient system of government. The type I'm thinking of is the kind proposed by the book (and/or movie) Starship Troopers. A pretty dominating government that controls all aspects of life, but allows people to live happily. You have to work to become a 'citizen' - to gain more power within society. Society benefits in this way. Corporal punishment is an excellent deterrant and a very efficient way of keeping the peace. Backed up with a strong military/police presence, this government can't really be torn apart internally.

Please don't tell me you would ever join one. Humans would be no better than animals. Like a herd of sheep living a "happy" life, its whole life wasted for money.

Tell me the difference between a herd of sheep, and humans in a government like that?

I put Representative democracy, though really I like what we have which is a Constitutional Republic. Really any government is going to try to screw you over though. Why is why a constitution is important to try and stop them.