Thread: Voting McCain?

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

I don't think Wright is anti-american, though he is an extremist. Words like anti-american are tools used by nationalists to make other ideas associated with foreign invasion. It's not a connection my brain naturally draws because I'm aware of it, UM, and so there's no point in using the term anti-american for describing anything unless you want to wear your utter disregard for alternative perspectives on your sleeve.

There you go again with your complete inability to discuss a political disagreement without acting like a jackass twelve year old. So here we go again. Congratulations. You are in no position to accuse people of having utter disregard for other perspectives. Do you read your own posts? You can't even control yourself when somebody disagrees with you. Look in the mirror.

"Anti-American" means "against America". It is the exact term that describes what I am talking about. I know such terms brew up your cult brainwashing nuttiness, but I used the correct term. I don't care who the Hell else says it or why. It is the correct term. Utter disregard for other perspectives has nothing to do with the term I used. You pulled that out of nowhere. Wright is anti-American. It is a fact.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

And before you say things like, "Obama is only popular with half the democrats" look up a poll please. WHo do the other half support? Obama's first name, Barack? The democrats and independents are unifying under Barack because his speeches contain solutions in them, he's straight forward and honest, and frankly WE CAN ALL SEE THROUGH THE BULLSHIT.

I am telling you what I have learned from polls. A very high percentage of Clinton supporters polled have said they will not vote for Obama if he is the candidate. There is a great deal of controversy within the Democratic party right now. It is not going well for them. You should research what you are talking about before you stick your neck out and act like that.

Barack said he did not know after twenty years that Wright was an anti-American extremist, yet you say Barack is honest? You are not being honest.

Watch him not win the election. Do you want to make a bet on it? Let's come back to this thread in November and review just how bad Obama got his ass kicked. How about it? Are you going to talk just as much shit about this issue after that happens? I will definitely come back to this thread to remind you of this conversation.

By the way, weren't you talking a bunch of shit a few months ago about how Ron Paul was going to be the Republican candidate? How well is that going at this point? I think he might get the nomination.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Seriously, Fox News did an article trying to assert a school Barack attended was a terrorist training camp. It was a regular, public school. They checked absolutely no facts and practiced, like usual, 0 accountability. I mean, the right is really stretching their fingers to try and get dirt on this guy and the more they do the more we see it's all just a weak, feeble attempt by a bunch of fat white men that have to get off their gravy train.

I never saw that supposed Fox story, so I don't know if you are telling the truth. It is the first I have heard. Finding that Obama is admittedly friends with an admitted terrorist and gave speeches with him and finding that Obama went to an anti-American extremist church for twenty years is not a matter of stretching fingers. You should ask yourself why those facts don't concern you.

Perhaps it would help me understand your infinite wsidom if you defined the term anti-america. To me, reading your posts, you use like it a nazi calling things "ungerman" before WW2. Anything that went against the centralized superior culture of the germanic people was considered unpatriotic, ungerman, all the words you used to describe Wright. Now, I know you're not a nazi so I apologize for thinking because you were using "anti-american" it made you hold a similarlity to fascist ideals. If you could just explain what anti-americanism really is and how the usage of the word is NOT just a tool by american fascists to wage war against the counter-culture?

Furthermore... I apologize so much for not checking my facts and providing absolutely no statistical data to back up my facts. It was wrong of me to sink to your level by doing that. I know, if you just say a fact without any evidence, no one will believe you. Of course, when talking with you it doesn't matter how many statistics or facts are pulled up you'll still disregard them if they disagree with your opinions. You might scan them with this pointy little judgmental eyes of yours that sink in a little bit unusually deep behind your brow, but will you ever listen to an idea outside of your own without judgment?

And I read that poll that showed a higher percentage of clinton supporters would not vote for barack obama than barack obama supporters that would not vote for clinton. It's a pretty big step to assert that the democrats are divided from that, though. Granted, it has been a Fox News talking point recently that the democrats are divided which is supposed to be really good for McCain, so I can't blame you for listening to every word they say like spoon fed melted marshmellows but in the real world outside of Fox News where there's accountability most former Clinton supporters are beginning to rally behind him. Clinton is being a major bitch, a sore loser, and frankly a pain in everyone's ass, she's just disappointed she can't take any more multimillion dollar bribes at the expense of the welfare of the american people in the next 4 years.

Furthermore, Barack Obama never lied about Wright, he said he was not present during the more outrageous stuff Wright has said. Furthermore, dozens of researchers were looking over Barack's history. They had to scan 40 years of presentations by Reverend Wright to find just a few extremist quotes. People that attended Wrights' congregations were interviewed and said they were typically pretty normal, once in a while he got pretty political and then you could tell he was fairly left wing but that's it. That's other people that attended his church for 20 years. People take his quotes out of context and assume he was running a terrorist networking cell. The man holds some opinions are simply very far-fetched, and you act like Barack lied when he openly admitted he married under Wright and his children were baptized under Wright. He didn't dance around the issue like mcCain did with his extremist spiritual leader, either. He said straight up, "He is my spiritual leader, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything he says."

I mean, my pot dealer thinks people should be allowed to say "nigger" again because back in his time it didn't mean black person, just someone lower than the belly of the snake. He also says he's teleported, he thinks yellowstone is going up on dec 2012, and I could go on. What, so I have to find a new pot dealer because some of his opinions are in contradiction with my own?

What about my social studies teacher, he believed the government was behind the assassinations of JFK, MLK and Malcolm X. He thinks the gulf of tonka never happened, that FDR let pearl harbour happen so he could fight the Germans and that Harrison Ford is the best actor of all time. He's still a really good teacher inspite of his viewpoints... because most of time he's teaching, most of time my dealer's dealing and Wright was mostly preaching. Conclusion: A man is allowed at least one good, close friend with a few outrageous opinions, everyone has them. Argument nullified.

CAN YOU SMELL WHAT BARACK IS COOKIN?

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Perhaps it would help me understand your infinite wsidom if you defined the term anti-america.

I did not call myself wise, and I did define "anti-American". You should read the post you are responding to.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

To me, reading your posts, you use like it a nazi calling things "ungerman" before WW2. Anything that went against the centralized superior culture of the germanic people was considered unpatriotic, ungerman, all the words you used to describe Wright. Now, I know you're not a nazi so I apologize for thinking because you were using "anti-american" it made you hold a similarlity to fascist ideals. If you could just explain what anti-americanism really is and how the usage of the word is NOT just a tool by american fascists to wage war against the counter-culture?

Like I said, it means "against America", not "respectully disagrees with certain American policies".

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Furthermore... I apologize so much for not checking my facts and providing absolutely no statistical data to back up my facts. It was wrong of me to sink to your level by doing that. I know, if you just say a fact without any evidence, no one will believe you. Of course, when talking with you it doesn't matter how many statistics or facts are pulled up you'll still disregard them if they disagree with your opinions. You might scan them with this pointy little judgmental eyes of yours that sink in a little bit unusually deep behind your brow, but will you ever listen to an idea outside of your own without judgment?

What the Hell is your problem? You are determined to be rude and make up stuff about me. Try giving counterarguments instead of merely showing how rotten you are. It would be a much more intellectual and effective approach.

What facts did I supposedly make up?

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

And I read that poll that showed a higher percentage of clinton supporters would not vote for barack obama than barack obama supporters that would not vote for clinton. It's a pretty big step to assert that the democrats are divided from that, though. Granted, it has been a Fox News talking point recently that the democrats are divided which is supposed to be really good for McCain, so I can't blame you for listening to every word they say like spoon fed melted marshmellows but in the real world outside of Fox News where there's accountability most former Clinton supporters are beginning to rally behind him. Clinton is being a major bitch, a sore loser, and frankly a pain in everyone's ass, she's just disappointed she can't take any more multimillion dollar bribes at the expense of the welfare of the american people in the next 4 years.

You have got to be the most hateful person who posts here. For real.

The poll says it all, not Fox News. There is a major controversy going on between Clinton and Obama supporters, and it has gotten ugly. I have seen the polls, I have heard and read the opinions, and I have seen the flaming going on between the two candidates. It has gotten nasty. Bitch at them, not at me for pointing out the facts.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Furthermore, Barack Obama never lied about Wright, he said he was not present during the more outrageous stuff Wright has said. Furthermore, dozens of researchers were looking over Barack's history. They had to scan 40 years of presentations by Reverend Wright to find just a few extremist quotes. People that attended Wrights' congregations were interviewed and said they were typically pretty normal, once in a while he got pretty political and then you could tell he was fairly left wing but that's it. That's other people that attended his church for 20 years. People take his quotes out of context and assume he was running a terrorist networking cell. The man holds some opinions are simply very far-fetched, and you act like Barack lied when he openly admitted he married under Wright and his children were baptized under Wright. He didn't dance around the issue like mcCain did with his extremist spiritual leader, either. He said straight up, "He is my spiritual leader, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything he says."

McCain said that guy is "a" spiritual leader, not HIS spriritual leader. Obama is very, very close to Wright, and he said he did not know Wright has such hateful views. What was it you were saying about being spoon fed lies? But in your favor, I will say that I don't really think you believe that lie.

Don't waste your time with the silly "out of context" argument. I have seen the videos. Was somebody else's voice dubbed in over Wright's?

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

I mean, my pot dealer thinks people should be allowed to say "nigger" again because back in his time it didn't mean black person, just someone lower than the belly of the snake. He also says he's teleported, he thinks yellowstone is going up on dec 2012, and I could go on. What, so I have to find a new pot dealer because some of his opinions are in contradiction with my own?

Does your pot dealer preach his philosophies of life and spirituality to you ever Sunday? Do you go to your pot dealer for such guidance every Sunday? If so, you need to find somebody else to do it, and I will definitely not be voting for you if you run for president.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

What about my social studies teacher, he believed the government was behind the assassinations of JFK, MLK and Malcolm X. He thinks the gulf of tonka never happened, that FDR let pearl harbour happen so he could fight the Germans and that Harrison Ford is the best actor of all time. He's still a really good teacher inspite of his viewpoints... because most of time he's teaching, most of time my dealer's dealing and Wright was mostly preaching. Conclusion: A man is allowed at least one good, close friend with a few outrageous opinions, everyone has them. Argument nullified.

Do you turn to your social studies teacher for philosophies of life and spirituality? Is he your spiritual mentor? Is that the number one role he plays in your life? Plus, thinking some people in the government were involved in those assassinations, which they might have been, is pretty far from spewing the much broader and much more extreme hate Wright spewed, and that Barack Obama of course knew about.

You're missing the point any way. I did not start talking about this to argue about whether Obama really is screwed up for going to that church for 20 years. My point was that doing so put an unfixable dent in his campaign and that he cannot win the election, especially when coupled with the Ayers controversy. You have not addressed the Ayers controversy, by the way. Does it concern you at all?

I also said there are other damaging controversies, and I said I think there is more coming. Stay tuned.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

CAN YOU SMELL WHAT BARACK IS COOKIN?

Yes, he is cooking defeat for himself, just like Ron Paul was when you were insisting that he was going to be the Republican nominee. You are going to come back here in November and admit that Barack got his ass whipped in the election, aren't you?

McCain actually has a plan for fighting Islamic fascism. It is almost a unconventional warfare expert's dream.
So I want him in. Even though he is practically liberal on some things and his gun rights voting is spotty at best.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

"Anti-American" means "against America".

Finding that Obama is admittedly friends with an admitted terrorist and gave speeches with him and finding that Obama went to an anti-American extremist church for twenty years is not a matter of stretching fingers. You should ask yourself why those facts don't concern you.

First of all, the church that Obama attended is not "Anti-American", nor is Jeremiah Wright anti-American...unless you consider his service in the Marine Corps (as well as his tending to President Lyndon B. Johnson as a medic) to be "anti-American".

If anyone has earned the right to criticize the government, it is those who have served in uniform.

The biggest problem in our society right now is that people have been brainwashed to believe that criticizing the government equals being anti-American. If anything, swearing allegiance to elected leaders without question is anti-American. If America was meant to be that way we would have remained as English colonies instead of striking out as an independent nation.

Originally Posted by Captain Sleepalot

First of all, the church that Obama attended is not "Anti-American", nor is Jeremiah Wright anti-American...unless you consider his service in the Marine Corps (as well as his tending to President Lyndon B. Johnson as a medic) to be "anti-American".

If anyone has earned the right to criticize the government, it is those who have served in uniform.

Of course he has a right to be anti-American, but that is what he is. The fact that he was in the military does not make my claim untrue. Timothy McVeigh was in the military. What is your point?

Originally Posted by Captain Sleepalot

The biggest problem in our society right now is that people have been brainwashed to believe that criticizing the government equals being anti-American. If anything, swearing allegiance to elected leaders without question is anti-American. If America was meant to be that way we would have remained as English colonies instead of striking out as an independent nation.

Pretty much everybody criticizes the government, including me. That alone does not make a person anti-American. Wright, however, is anti-American.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Pretty much everybody criticizes the government, including me. That alone does not make a person anti-American. Wright, however, is anti-American.

What is it, exactly, that makes someone Anti-American, vs. Critical of "America (meaning its flaws, whether its government or its cultural aspects)"?

Where is that arbitrary line? If I imply that I "fucking hate" America's policies, as set forth by government, does it mean I hate my country? If I condemn foreign policy, and make a case for 9/11 being a byproduct of that foreign policy, and have countless things about how "what goes around, comes around," when discussing the terrorist attacks, does that mean I hate my country? Or is "anti-American" just a semantic argument, like when Sean Hannity uses it, every time someone says something about the U.S. government?

If one can be damning of the American government's policies, and express awareness of atrocity that was brought on by those policies without being "Anti-American," what makes them fit the label of "Anti-American?"

The silly goat herders letting the wolves in sheeps' clothing into the herd will be our undoing.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

What is it, exactly, that makes someone Anti-American, vs. Critical of "America (meaning its flaws, whether its government or its cultural aspects)"?

Where is that arbitrary line? If I imply that I "fucking hate" America's policies, as set forth by government, does it mean I hate my country? If I condemn foreign policy, and make a case for 9/11 being a byproduct of that foreign policy, and have countless things about how "what goes around, comes around," when discussing the terrorist attacks, does that mean I hate my country? Or is "anti-American" just a semantic argument, like when Sean Hannity uses it, every time someone says something about the U.S. government?

If one can be damning of the American government's policies, and express awareness of atrocity that was brought on by those policies without being "Anti-American," what makes them fit the label of "Anti-American?"

The line is between hating certain policies and hating the country itself. When somebody says that using nukes to end WWII in 1945 creates some strange magic that makes the United States achieve a moral debt from the gods or whatever so that people working in the World Trade Center in 2001 had death coming to them and says, "God damn America!" (not ..."certain American policies"), he is anti-American. When I say that the war on drugs is fucking terrible and has got to go, I am merely expressing strong disagreement with a specific policy.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The line is between hating certain policies and hating the country itself. When somebody says that using nukes to end WWII in 1945 creates some strange magic that makes the United States achieve a moral debt from the gods or whatever so that people working in the World Trade Center in 2001 had death coming to them and says, "God damn America!" (not ..."certain American policies"), he is anti-American. When I say that the war on drugs is fucking terrible and has got to go, I am merely expressing strong disagreement with a specific policy.

I want to see your point as black and white as you do, but I just don't know. I just really hate when the words "Anti-American" are thrown around because of people's disdain for hating certain aspects of America. The quote (though I couldn't find anything more than an excerpt) was:

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God damn America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.”

Whether his statements make him as a whole, "anti-American," I don't know that I can really say. Barring religious ideas of "what goes around comes around," how else could one make the point of the things listed above being deplorable, with any sense of passion, without being labeled by some as anti-American? Is it even possible?

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I want to see your point as black and white as you do, but I just don't know. I just really hate when the words "Anti-American" are thrown around because of people's disdain for hating certain aspects of America. The quote (though I couldn't find anything more than an excerpt) was:

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God damn America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.”

Whether his statements make him as a whole, "anti-American," I don't know that I can really say. Barring religious ideas of "what goes around comes around," how else could one make the point of the things listed above being deplorable, with any sense of passion, without being labeled by some as anti-American? Is it even possible?

He should have said, "God damn those laws and actions," or something like that, if he really believes all of that stuff he said. I could say that I disagree with certain points you make, and that alone would not mean that I hate you, but I would be getting hateful if I said, "God damn what you said," and it would be safe to say that I am all out anti-Oneironaut if I spoke with my true feelings and said, "God damn Oneironaut! God damn Oneironaut for as long as he continues to believe what he believes!" "God damn America" and "Down with the USA" are on the same sort of level. A damning from God is something very severe to wish on a nation.