Thread: So Useless! (Everyday Life That is!)

That's not really what I was saying. I'm not a sadist or depressed or anything. Sometimes I get a kick outta life. But I've just found it all routine. I've gone snowboarding...learnt guitar and harmonica, made a few friends and got a decent job. But all for what? Humanity in general is frustrating. Language, religion, all that jazz. All completely overcomplicated and unnecessary. And when it actually comes to saying things you want words usually don't do justice. It can sound brilliant in your head, but conveying that to others is hard. Life is soooooo stupid. All this emotions, can't we go back to simply being content or being unsatisfied? Hunger, weariness, lust, anger. That's all there should be to life. Love and relationships anger me the most. It has gone from reproducing to a huge system. Buying flowers, woeing them. Old or young,gay or straight,human or animals everyone just wants to get off....it's true. Yet it is so twisted now that people will waste their life trying to get someone they "love". I'm embarrased to be a human. And just knowing these feeling and how to express them angers me more. Self-preservation is the only thing keeping me humanlike. If I were to become agitated and tell people who know me the way I feel I could get thrown in a looney bin. And I can't have that. So for now I'll work, talk, gossip, laugh...do all things people do, till I can find a way out.

Humans are made for life, not thought

edit: "To the OP.

That is why you...

Get a job you like,
have a partner you like,
try to love your chldren if you have one,
have friends that you like.

/done."

That is so "human" of you to say that. You think it's simple, but it could be alot simpler. I know in my heart what I am, and to have to live around, and be like humans all the time burdens me sooo much. Can't wait till I go to my real home, away from lifes complications.

You're essentially alienated. You need to read some classy humanist stuff to knock some sense into your misanthropic excuse of a brain.
Haha.

Originally Posted by Omicron

Can you tell me what point life has if there is a higher being?

If we do live forever?

Because whatever you're doing now won't matter in the long run at all, consdering you exist for infinity. In fact anything you do is just lost in that, its pointless no matter what.

If however we die and it is the end, EVERYTHING we do matters greatly both to us and others.

So in fact this eternity of your mean things dont matter at all. In contrast the mor erational view that we die when we die, means every single brath matters so much.

If eternity, all your thoughts ideas and actions even to you are just a single grain of sand in the ocean. They are lost and have no significance. At least our existence remains potent to us at all time we exist before we die.

You'r focusing too much on time as this unstoppable thing which is bad. This is too primitive; we can exist as fully as we like, just look back and realise time is a mere property.

I see what you're saying, still.

Firstly consider for a moment with me that there is a creator. If life really is a "test", or whatnot, than the act of believing in itself is both fulfilling and promising-- as that is how we were designed to operate. The eternity promised isn't like the one here, I suspect it will be so blissful that things on earth will be rather menial.

Assume with me, now, that we argue for a bit about the validity of religion and I completely renounce my faith and become an atheist or an agnostic. In all intellectual honesty will that change what I've said in previous posts? If we speak of the human race collectively, than of course it will matter for a while (though still a short time in the eyes of evolution, I suspect). Individually, once we say goodbye, all functions, senses and awareness will cease. The rich man who did great deeds will be equal to the murderer of twenty innocent children-- even though their experiences differed tremendously.

I'm sorry but time or this mindset is not primitive. Is it not the truth to those who walk the rational and logical path? I cannot help that it isn't talked about or even accepted. Every breath may matter now, but it is a material, narrow-sighted clinging to the present which in a few seconds "won't exist" and will be replaced by a new present.

Originally Posted by juroara

does every single experience you had yesterday matter today?

there is no time that is more important than, right now. only by living in the now will your life be at its fullest. stop living in some world where only the past or future counts - they don't exist.

Why should I care about the present if in an instant it no longer exists? We seem so fond of looking billions of years into the past, but cannot bother to do the same for the future-- when we will inevitably be something different, or no longer exist. The "here and now" view is so incredibly futile, why? Say I have a great time, awesome, my entire existence is worth it. The next day I become severely depressed, my existence is worthless and I may as well kill myself.

I'm sorry but I've already underlined why "living life to the fullest" is equally futile. Just saying that doesn't make anyone happy, and I don't think you can really define it since each person has their own view of a fulfilled life. It certainly isn't a bad thing-- but does it have a point?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I think humans will be here, on space stations, and on other planets in a million years.

I thought of that too. I'm leaning towards unlikely, but who knows?

Not to me, but hopefully what I did in my life time will matter to the people who live after I am gone. My life is here now, and it matters to me now.

I can see that. I really do respect that, but I honestly think some more thought in this mystical "past and future" should be given, even if it causes general unrest. I find this is especially true to those whom want to scrutinize any religion-- organized or otherwise-- for being utterly ignorant. So what if I'm ignorant for 60 more years? Will the atheist care once we're both dead?

(Now don't get me wrong I can see it from your point of view. You asked me once if someone told me I was going to hell if I didn't convert would I give it any thought? No, I wouldn't.)

Meaning and purpose, like beauty, are in the eye of the beholder. Something is either meaningful or purposeful to a particular entity or not. So when you say "life is useless", you need to specify what entity in particular it is useless to. Is your life useless to you?

I don't think you can apply terms like "useless" to everything that exists as a whole when including yourself, and even your god (if any) in the whole. "Useful" or "useless" refers to a relationship between a subject and an object. Something can be useful to someone, or useless to them. When you try to apply the term to everything that is, who or what is it "useless" to? Outside of all that is, there is nothing, so saying existence is useless really makes no sense.

Originally Posted by GestaltAlteration

Why should I care about the present if in an instant it no longer exists? We seem so fond of looking billions of years into the past, but cannot bother to do the same for the future-- when we will inevitably be something different, or no longer exist. The "here and now" view is so incredibly futile, why? Say I have a great time, awesome, my entire existence is worth it. The next day I become severely depressed, my existence is worthless and I may as well kill myself.

You let us know when the present ceases to exist

If you find everything to be passing away and therefor futile, what makes you expect a situation of permanence after death? If you've existed in total dissatisfaction to date and expect nothing else from this life, then in what sense would 'you' be present in a setting of total happiness?

You're presenting us with Pascal's Wager, which fails on many levels, but mainly because God and nothingness were never the only possibilities, nor are either suggested by the world we inhabit. In a world where no thing has lasting form, nor is any thing outside the continuity of cause and effect, what are the odds that each human has a fixed or permanent nature that leaves the system, either ceasing to exist or going elsewhere when we die?

What if no one lets you off the ride at the end, and the likelihood of reaching a state as pleasant, with as much opportunity for peace and fulfillment as this one (by the universe's standards) is worse than lottery odds?

You let us know when the present ceases to exist

How's this one for you? Death.

If you find everything to be passing away and therefor futile, what makes you expect a situation of permanence after death? If you've existed in total dissatisfaction to date and expect nothing else from this life, then in what sense would 'you' be present in a setting of total happiness?

Most of what I've said isn't even my real views-- it's what I perceive would remain if one became a true atheist. We can tack on fancy words and get philosophical all day long-- but if life is it and we are a product of chance than everything we do of meaning is temporary and (fine, to an extent) futile. Yes, sure it's all "fascinating" and "beautiful". That's also a series of neuron impulses destined to be snuffed away. I feel like a broken record here...

What do I expect? I have faith. Faith is frowned on here in dreamviews, so I'll leave it at that.

You're presenting us with Pascal's Wager, which fails on many levels, but mainly because God and nothingness were never the only possibilities, nor are either suggested by the world we inhabit. In a world where no thing has lasting form, nor is any thing outside the continuity of cause and effect, what are the odds that each human has a fixed or permanent nature that leaves the system, either ceasing to exist or going elsewhere when we die?

I would like to know the alternative possibilities, first off. Secondly I say the chance of ceasing to exist is very high. Likewise, going elsewhere is a very low chance and would require an external prompting. We are what our brain is, we are what our genes are, we are what our experiences are. If these are taken at death and, by some chance, we return through this "series of cause and effect" than the chances that all three factors have changed is high. This is just entertaining the idea, personally I don't think the cold eyes of the universe would bother recycling us. We're one planet in the midst of an ocean. The best we can hope for to remain in the system is our molecules breaking up and lingering around. What fun.

What if no one lets you off the ride at the end, and the likelihood of reaching a state as pleasant, with as much opportunity for peace and fulfillment as this one (by the universe's standards) is worse than lottery odds?

I'd say our very ability to a) exist, b) exist as well as we do, c) type on a computer, and d) think about what we are typing coherently, is a wee bit harder than lottery odds. Because of this in part I believe in a creator. With a belief in a creator I believe in the promises of the future. Faith.

Originally Posted by GestaltAlteration

Most of what I've said isn't even my real views-- it's what I perceive would remain if one became a true atheist.

Ya, you're arguing with a position I'm not presenting, from a point of view you don't hold...why are you doing this?

I'm doing it in hopes of understanding it. It's one of those things I've never grasped and rarely heard admitted, but seems most logical given the absense of an intellegent creation.

As for your position. Sorry, I found it a bit confusing.

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

That's not really what I was saying. I'm not a sadist or depressed or anything. Sometimes I get a kick outta life. But I've just found it all routine. I've gone snowboarding...learnt guitar and harmonica, made a few friends and got a decent job. But all for what? Humanity in general is frustrating. Language, religion, all that jazz. All completely overcomplicated and unnecessary. And when it actually comes to saying things you want words usually don't do justice. It can sound brilliant in your head, but conveying that to others is hard. Life is soooooo stupid. All this emotions, can't we go back to simply being content or being unsatisfied? Hunger, weariness, lust, anger. That's all there should be to life. Love and relationships anger me the most. It has gone from reproducing to a huge system. Buying flowers, woeing them. Old or young,gay or straight,human or animals everyone just wants to get off....it's true. Yet it is so twisted now that people will waste their life trying to get someone they "love". I'm embarrased to be a human. And just knowing these feeling and how to express them angers me more. Self-preservation is the only thing keeping me humanlike. If I were to become agitated and tell people who know me the way I feel I could get thrown in a looney bin. And I can't have that. So for now I'll work, talk, gossip, laugh...do all things people do, till I can find a way out.

Humans are made for life, not thought

edit: "To the OP.

That is why you...

Get a job you like,
have a partner you like,
try to love your chldren if you have one,
have friends that you like.

/done."

That is so "human" of you to say that. You think it's simple, but it could be alot simpler. I know in my heart what I am, and to have to live around, and be like humans all the time burdens me sooo much. Can't wait till I go to my real home, away from lifes complications.

An interesting book for you to read might be "the nausea" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausea_(novel) translated from french I think.

well if that kind of lifestyle seems so useless... an ordinary lifestyle... then find a different one. Dont live an ordinary life. People think it's hard not to do this, they think that for some reason they're supposed to live an ordinary life and then other people go on telling them that that's the only way it will work out. Life is what you make it. It might sound irrational, but it doesn't have to for you if that's not the way you want to think

There's so much to do in life, I already know now that I don't have enough time to accomplish all my dreams! But for you life is useless?! For me life is my playground to realize my dreams.

I do agree, if I end up doing a job I hate, watching TV at night, eating, fucking, sleeping, and nothing else, then yeah, my life would be completely useless.

Ever heard of the story of the fisherman?

Well here it is (with some variation):

There once was a fisherman who, though not very old, fished all day and supported himself through fishing. He eat what he caught and sold the rest in the nearby market. He was not very rich, but he was happy. One day, a group of business executives, seemingly on a fishing trip for business, were fishing nearby. They were very noisy and didn't catch much, but the man didn't say anything, he knew their type. At the end of the day, on of the executives came over to him and said, "You know, none of really caught much fish, but you! You were really great, even throwing a few back!" The man nodded. "You could, if you wanted to, start a food company."

"Why would I want to do that?" he asked.

"Well," said the business man "So you could build it up and make a lot of money."

"O," he said visibly confused, "but, why would I want to do that?"

Visibly frustrated at this point he said, "So once you make enough money, you can retire and never work again, and all day you can do what you want to do!" The business man began to think that the man was too stupid to start a business now.

"But I already am doing what I love all day.I love fishing." The man responded.