I'm not ashamed to admit I hate feminists.

**bluefinger** · 07-06-2008 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by juroara

hmmmmmm

I really can't stand abortion debates, and where the line of humanity begins and ends. people make such pathetic claims

anyone who is an avid lucid dreamer, would begin to see them self as the ghost in the machine. a lucid dream, may be created in the mind, but the mind - the you - the real you- certainly is experiencing everything without the body. that body is not you. you are the mind in the body. you are mind. you are consciousness.

you don't have to research to far to find a wealth of information regarding the mind of a fetus. we know, fetus at some point has a mind. we know they can hear and recognize their mothers voice. and many of us are convinced they can dream.

one of the most cowardly and pathetic arguments I have ever heard regards the dependency of a fetus. that the fetus isn't human because its completely dependent on its mother, thus a parasite.

show me how a new born is independent. show me how a three day old baby is independent. how a week old baby is independent. there is no such thing as a independent baby. this is how humanity has evolved. we have evolved to develop close bonds, and we start off by needing someone to take care of us.

the fetus is truly a human baby that needs its mother. you damn cowards.

My argument was on the basis of consciousness. Until something shows signs of consciousness (neurons developing enough to show activity), then the whole argument is moot. The foetus and the newborn baby are completely dependent on the mother, thus the importance of making sure the mother actually wants the child in the first place. You can't force someone into a situation unwillingly because of a difference of opinion.

The reason we are so dependent at birth is because compared to other mammals, we are all born premature. The skull is not even fully developed, and would be impossible for the mother to give birth to if the baby were to born developed with a fully developed skull. This is actually a predicament caused by the evolution of our rather sizeable heads, not for something such as 'love'.

What the arguments have been going on here were about consciousness, not dependence. Read before you react.

**Sornaensis** · 07-06-2008 01:39 AM

I can't see why idiots like Tkdyo can't simply have people fucking choose for themselves!

It's not like it means every woman will have an abortion. Fuck. It's a choice.

It's people like you who thrive on the media mind, thing like communes, cults, etc. You want to a) deprive people of choice and b) not only give someone your opinion or let them see things your way, you want your way to be the only way.

Get out.

**Universal Mind** · 07-06-2008 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by juroara

you are the mind in the body. you are mind. you are consciousness.

Then there is no "you" in a fetus until right around the 25th week, when the neurons necessary for consciousness have been developed and the fetus has a mind. Before that, nobody is home. Nobody is there.

**tkdyo** · 07-06-2008 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

I can't see why idiots like Tkdyo can't simply have people fucking choose for themselves!

It's not like it means every woman will have an abortion. Fuck. It's a choice.

It's people like you who thrive on the media mind, thing like communes, cults, etc. You want to a) deprive people of choice and b) not only give someone your opinion or let them see things your way, you want your way to be the only way.

Get out.

idiots like me huh? I already stated I am not a fundamentalist christian in this very thread, to further the claim I am not a member of any organized religion. I also already said I just enjoy debating the side Im not sure of, I said Ive been back and forth on the pre-fetal state. Why dont you learn something about someone and read the thread before making a personal attack and making yourself look like a jackass?

Killing a person is also a choice, so should we allow that freedom too? I already admitted Im not 100% on the pre-fetal state, but after that it is the same as killing a human.

Oh and Im not going anywhere, if you cant take it then maybe you are the one who needs to take a walk

**juroara** · 07-06-2008 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by bluefinger

What the arguments have been going on here were about consciousness, not dependence. Read before you react.

I can give my opinion - I don't care to read anyones babbling arguments on this forum regarding abortion.

the argument of dependency was brought up before by the very forum members here

**bluefinger** · 07-06-2008 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by juroara

I can give my opinion - I don't care to read anyones babbling arguments on this forum regarding abortion.

the argument of dependency was brought up before by the very forum members here

Just seems somewhat out of place considering the rest of the thread.

**i make it rain** · 07-07-2008 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

lol. Make that into a bumper sticker. We'll split the profits.

DAMN. Got me with my own thing.

I guess I'll go into business with you. I will even start advertizing right now.

HEY ALL YOU OUT THERE. WANNA BUY A BUMPER STICKER? They are super cool. If you buy one now, you get another one FREE, yes no charge, but the offer is only good in the next 10 minutes. Call now. Must be 18 or older to order.

Brought to you buy Minerva's Rain Co.

Bumper stickers are not suitable for children under 3 years of age. Minerva's Rain Co. is not reliable for vehicle damage due to some idiot reading the bumber sticker and not watching the road.

**Sornaensis** · 07-07-2008 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by tkdyo

idiots like me huh? I already stated I am not a fundamentalist christian in this very thread, to further the claim I am not a member of any organized religion. I also already said I just enjoy debating the side Im not sure of, I said Ive been back and forth on the pre-fetal state. Why dont you learn something about someone and read the thread before making a personal attack and making yourself look like a jackass?

Killing a person is also a choice, so should we allow that freedom too? I already admitted Im not 100% on the pre-fetal state, but after that it is the same as killing a human.

Oh and Im not going anywhere, if you cant take it then maybe you are the one who needs to take a walk

When did I ever say different on my opinion of when abiortion should be legal?

You fucking idiot.

Yes, you are a moron. Get out.

**tkdyo** · 07-08-2008 05:20 AM

lol, wow, you really didnt read the whole first half of my post did you?

If you are implying you ARE on the same page as me for when abortion should be legal then why are you so hostile?

You are making yourself look more and more like an idiot. This is quite entertaining for me now.

**Halocuber** · 07-08-2008 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

When did I ever say different on my opinion of when abiortion should be legal?

You fucking idiot.

Yes, you are a moron. Get out.

Seismosaur, why did you join dreamviews fourms anyways??? You NEVER post anything that is dreams-related and your arguments always has unnecessary profanity in it and they are always poorly research.

**Sornaensis** · 07-08-2008 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by tkdyo

lol, wow, you really didnt read the whole first half of my post did you?

If you are implying you ARE on the same page as me for when abortion should be legal then why are you so hostile?

You are making yourself look more and more like an idiot. This is quite entertaining for me now.

Then why are you here?

Exactly.

Get out.

**tkdyo** · 07-08-2008 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Then why are you here?

Exactly.

Get out.

lol, you need a little more substance to your posts. Im not exactly sure what you are trying to accomplish but you are making me laugh so Im definitely staying to see what you do next

**wiltors42** · 07-08-2008 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Good as Gold

I hate feminists.
Dividing people into 'Jews' and the rest of the world started WWII.

I thought that was Germany being all pissed off at France after WWI because they had to pay them millions of dollars among other things. I'm pretty sure Jews were just who Hitler and his evil army wanted to blame for all their misfortunes, it wasn't them being segregated that started it, in fact I'm pretty sure they were un-segregated before the war. :S

But you do have a good point, every person should have equal rights. I don't even kill spiders.

**Halocuber** · 07-08-2008 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by wiltors42

I thought that was Germany being all pissed off at France after WWI because they had to pay them millions of dollars among other things. I'm pretty sure Jews were just who Hitler and his evil army wanted to blame for all their misfortunes, it wasn't them being segregated that started it, in fact I'm pretty sure they were un-segregated before the war. :S

But you do have a good point, every person should have equal rights. I don't even kill spiders.

How was hitler army evil???? Only the SS soliders were the ones who handles the jews and such. The rest of the army had very little knowledge of what was happening to the jews . Also hitler army were people who were fighting for their country. Just like the other countrys were.

Thats like saying America is evil because Bush is oil hungry or something like that.

But of course your statement was a opinion , so I guess your entitle to your opinion.

**juroara** · 07-09-2008 12:14 AM

a lot of americans don't support bush. if we all did, by all means, call us evil

last I checked, nazis more than support hitler *they loooooovvvvvveeed him*

**i make it rain** · 07-09-2008 12:20 AM

I believe most people just liked Hitler because he was giving them prosperity or were required to like him out of fear.

And I don't kill spiders either. VIVA LA SPIDER.

**tkdyo** · 07-09-2008 03:23 AM

mmhmm. Jews were the easiest scape goat for the country's porblems. He was quite loved, there are still some people we know who lived in Germany then and support him now...its sad...

Then you have the president of Iran saying the Holocaust never happened...I wonder if he truely believes that...

**Halocuber** · 07-09-2008 06:35 AM

Typical American response out of all of you. Stereotyping a country because of their history. That’s like me saying that America is terrorist because America was built by Terrorism . Examples , Boston Tea Party , breaking from Britain and such . That would be Terrorism .

I have been to Germany many times and I never met one person who even cared about Nazis. Also Germany is your Allies now LOL

Check this to see why America history falls in the definition of Terrorism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

**tkdyo** · 07-09-2008 08:16 AM

You did see most of us were talking in past tense right? As in Germany isnt that way anymore. And how was mine stereotyping? I was specifically talking about Hitler and the Iran's president. And the thing about people still liking him, I know, because we have met some! So dont tell me Im stereotyping when I didnt even say most or all, just some.

And ya, I admit my country has done some bad things too. We arnt perfect but what country is? Every country is trying to better itself

**Universal Mind** · 07-09-2008 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Halocuber

Typical American response out of all of you. Stereotyping a country

Originally Posted by Halocuber

Examples , Boston Tea Party , breaking from Britain and such . That would be Terrorism .

How was pouring tea into Boston Harbor terrorism? You must be thinking of the Pearl Harbor party. How was breaking from an oppressive government terrorism?

**Halocuber** · 07-09-2008 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

How was pouring tea into Boston Harbor terrorism? You must be thinking of the Pearl Harbor party. How was breaking from an oppressive government terrorism?

By breaking away from one's country by using violence would be counted as Terrorism. Go sink a oil rig (because you do not agree with the oil prices ) and see what kind of charges you would get.

Pearl Harbor , lets not start on that subject.

**i make it rain** · 07-09-2008 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Halocuber

By breaking away from one's country by using violence would be counted as Terrorism. Go sink a oil rig (because you do not agree with the oil prices ) and see what kind of charges you would get.

Pearl Harbor , lets not start on that subject.

I don't believe there was much violence in the Boston Tea Party. The Boston Massacre had real violence (and it came like 3 years ealier).

**dragonoverlord** · 07-09-2008 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by tkdyo

Then you have the president of Iran saying the Holocaust never happened...I wonder if he truely believes that...

He never said the holocaust never happend, Hes questioning to what extent the holocaust did happen. IE hes saying that the extent of the holocaust (number of people rounded up and gassed) is exagerated or innacurate and not millions of jews were murdered but rather hundreds of thousands. I could be wrong feel free to look it up.

As i understand it thats not saying the holocaust never happend.

**tkdyo** · 07-10-2008 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

He never said the holocaust never happend, Hes questioning to what extent the holocaust did happen. IE hes saying that the extent of the holocaust (number of people rounded up and gassed) is exagerated or innacurate and not millions of jews were murdered but rather hundreds of thousands. I could be wrong feel free to look it up.

As i understand it thats not saying the holocaust never happend.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...n1124255.shtml

He called it a "myth" as I understand it that is saying the holocaust never happened.

**Half/Dreaming** · 07-10-2008 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by Halocuber

Typical American response out of all of you. Stereotyping a country because of their history. That’s like me saying that America is terrorist because America was built by Terrorism . Examples , Boston Tea Party , breaking from Britain and such . That would be Terrorism .

I have been to Germany many times and I never met one person who even cared about Nazis. Also Germany is your Allies now LOL

Check this to see why America history falls in the definition of Terrorism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

Doesn't this make you a hypocrit? I mean, by you saying "typical American response"....which is stereotyping.

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