Thread: Do Cells Think - And Is This What They Sound Like?

Fascinating article.

Link

lol. It reminds me of the awesomely coloured space photographs. Like nebulas with insanely awesome colours. But that is just what you get if you translate infra-red and ultraviolet, or even radiowaves, invisible-to-the-eye stuff, into nice bright colours to get a shiny 'photograph' of a nebula or something. In truth, if you look at nebulas, they aren't as cool as nasa shows you sometimes.

Same here. Cells don't actually make sounds. Sure, they communicate, but we already knew that. The guy just took some electronic signals given off by cells and changed it onto sound. Maybe it gives you some sort of intuitive 'respect' for cells, but I don't see what is so special.

That the article actually insinuates individual cells have the intentionality to be able to 'chat' is just plain unscientific, and extremely silly, to be honest. Don't project your capacity of thought onto some tiny cells that just give off certain signals under certain inputs.

It's interesting. But if I heard a human speaking like that I'd shit a brick.

I don't know why, but that scared the shit out of me.

HOLY SHIT!!! Good find.

Originally Posted by Good as Gold

I don't know why, but that scared the shit out of me.

That makes it two of us.

Originally Posted by Neruo

lol. It reminds me of the awesomely coloured space photographs. Like nebulas with insanely awesome colours. But that is just what you get if you translate infra-red and ultraviolet, or even radiowaves, invisible-to-the-eye stuff, into nice bright colours to get a shiny 'photograph' of a nebula or something. In truth, if you look at nebulas, they aren't as cool as nasa shows you sometimes.

Same here. Cells don't actually make sounds. Sure, they communicate, but we already knew that. The guy just took some electronic signals given off by cells and changed it onto sound. Maybe it gives you some sort of intuitive 'respect' for cells, but I don't see what is so special.

That the article actually insinuates individual cells have the intentionality to be able to 'chat' is just plain unscientific, and extremely silly, to be honest. Don't project your capacity of thought onto some tiny cells that just give off certain signals under certain inputs.

I don't quite think its the same. The frequency was changed to quantify the sound. They were already making the "noise," just not at a level audible to us. For you to say he simply made the simple, electrical impulse into a sound doesn't quite seem to be what the article implies. Not to say you're wrong, but I didn't gather that much from the article alone. Furthermore, I don't think the article implied that he was projecting our capacity of thought onto the cells, either.

ohhh man!! I will never look at microbes the same...they sound so cute! like a pac man video game!

science wants us to believe in some funny things

they don't believe in a higher power controlling the beauty of nature. thats fine and dandy really!! but neither do they believe that plants or any other lower life forms have any sort of consciousness

they are just........rocks...rocks that swim. rocks that grow. rocks that eat and rocks that reproduce. UNCONSCIOUS, NONCONSCIOUS living things.

I'm having a hard time understanding why microbes would form themselves into the first animals, entirely accidentally since there was no thought, no motive, no intent, no desire no goal TO FORM TO BEGIN WITH. It was a completely unconscious accidental process right??? Right??? I mean since the basic cell can't think, THEY DIDN'T MEAN to join together and create complex animals? It was a magical unconscious random processof the math lord? right?

I am not buying this idea that there is no conscious process in the origin/history of life! If you look at the whole picture, and if you look at the basic picture, you still have LIVING CELLS in every living organism. You still living cells influencing even the human being, into eating certain foods, into having sex, or this or that against our will, all for the sake of this giant massive community of what...of what???

CELLS

the human body IS a giant community of cells all working together to keep this community going. AGAINST YOUR WILL. Why against your will? Slit your wrist, it's already trying to undo your damage. It doesn't give a damn if you want to die. It will fight for its communal life. and..I'm supposed to believe, this amazing body is the result of an entirely unconscious accidental process of nature?

illogical if you ask me

...........

you know once upon a time science said the same thing about plants. plants are just mindless rocks that grow green. well, modern studies are proving this age old idea WRONG. plants, as it turns out, are actually self aware.

how does a programmer get a mindless robot to start forming communities for a greater cause? he programs it too

so pick your poison

either a creator told these mindless cells 'form'. or the basic life form isn't a mindless robot after all. either way, the history of life is entirely illogical without consciousness being the drive behind it.

************************

I think part of the problem why we struggle so much with the idea that something without a brain can have any sort of self awareness, is because of the uniqueness of our consciousness

putting the belief of the soul aside, our consciousness is taking place in the brain. but the interesting thing is, our consciousness is NOT the brain. our consciousness IS the ME, IS the I. That 'I' is NOT the arm. That 'I' is NOT the legs, its not any body part. It's NOT the brain!!

WHAT IS THE 'I' THEN? What is your consciousness then if it is not any organ, or any body part? Its the ghost in the machine. Our consciousness is sooo detached from our body, if we could put our brains in a robot body, you would still be you.

So, we have this 'I'. And we live by this 'I'. And this 'I' is so important, its hard to imagine consciousness without a singular, identifiable 'I'.

Well the funny thing is, it turns out the human mind doesn't have a singular, easily, identifiable 'I'. It turns out the human mind has a DUAL consciousness. And we interact with this OTHER consciousness every night. The subconscious!!

Now again, this idea of consciousness being anything other than 'I' is other worldly and hard to grasp. So people automatically say "Well the subconscious is like a computer storing data. Thats all. Its not really conscious"

of course you would say its not really conscious, thats creepy. thats weird. to think about two minds in one body.

heres a question. have you ever held a conversation with a dream character?? yeah. a computer storing data can't do that. the subconscious creates the dream world. it runs it. it is the voice behind every dream character, and lets be honest here. its superior when it comes to the imagination!!

it is not a 'mindless' storing data computer as people like to view it just to make themselves more comfortable.

the subconscious is a real consciousness, it is a apart of 'you', just not the Conscious You, as you recognize it.

but the interesting thing about the subconsciousness is, it is not an 'I' consciousness as we understand. The subconscious is much closer to the whole body and the body's needs and urges. Its more primal, more instinctual and closer to our dna programming. Because it doesn't have an 'I' identity, it doesn't necessarily have the individual aspirations that the Conscious You has. It lives in the memories you give it. It does not dream.

But it does have desires. It has things it hates. Things its addicted to.

The Conscious You says "I'm going to quit smoking!" The subconscious just laughs and says "Try me!"

the point is, we have a dual nature that most people don't recognize. the point is, even our own mind shows us consciousness isn't always an 'I'

The brain is an amazing thing. . yet what is it basically?

Cells.

Cells organized in a community of cells.

Cells organized in a community of cells communicating information!!!

The sum of this information leads to consciousness as we understand it****************
As it turns out. . . Plants have cells. These cells are extremely specialized and well organized. . .They communicate information!!!!! Why are we still looking for a 'brain'? Its right there under our noses.

Originally Posted by juroara

ohhh man!! I will never look at microbes the same...they sound so cute! like a pac man video game!

science wants us to believe in some funny things

they don't believe in a higher power controlling the beauty of nature. thats fine and dandy really!! but neither do they believe that plants or any other lower life forms have any sort of consciousness

they are just........rocks...rocks that swim. rocks that grow. rocks that eat and rocks that reproduce. UNCONSCIOUS, NONCONSCIOUS living things.

I'm having a hard time understanding why microbes would form themselves into the first animals, entirely accidentally since there was no thought, no motive, no intent, no desire no goal TO FORM TO BEGIN WITH. It was a completely unconscious accidental process right??? Right??? I mean since the basic cell can't think, THEY DIDN'T MEAN to join together and create complex animals? It was a magical unconscious random processof the math lord? right?

I am not buying this idea that there is no conscious process in the origin/history of life! If you look at the whole picture, and if you look at the basic picture, you still have LIVING CELLS in every living organism. You still living cells influencing even the human being, into eating certain foods, into having sex, or this or that against our will, all for the sake of this giant massive community of what...of what???

CELLS

the human body IS a giant community of cells all working together to keep this community going. AGAINST YOUR WILL. Why against your will? Slit your wrist, it's already trying to undo your damage. It doesn't give a damn if you want to die. It will fight for its communal life. and..I'm supposed to believe, this amazing body is the result of an entirely unconscious accidental process of nature?

illogical if you ask me

...........

you know once upon a time science said the same thing about plants. plants are just mindless rocks that grow green. well, modern studies are proving this age old idea WRONG. plants, as it turns out, are actually self aware.

how does a programmer get a mindless robot to start forming communities for a greater cause? he programs it too

so pick your poison

either a creator told these mindless cells 'form'. or the basic life form isn't a mindless robot after all. either way, the history of life is entirely illogical without consciousness being the drive behind it.

************************

I think part of the problem why we struggle so much with the idea that something without a brain can have any sort of self awareness, is because of the uniqueness of our consciousness

putting the belief of the soul aside, our consciousness is taking place in the brain. but the interesting thing is, our consciousness is NOT the brain. our consciousness IS the ME, IS the I. That 'I' is NOT the arm. That 'I' is NOT the legs, its not any body part. It's NOT the brain!!

WHAT IS THE 'I' THEN? What is your consciousness then if it is not any organ, or any body part? Its the ghost in the machine. Our consciousness is sooo detached from our body, if we could put our brains in a robot body, you would still be you.

So, we have this 'I'. And we live by this 'I'. And this 'I' is so important, its hard to imagine consciousness without a singular, identifiable 'I'.

Well the funny thing is, it turns out the human mind doesn't have a singular, easily, identifiable 'I'. It turns out the human mind has a DUAL consciousness. And we interact with this OTHER consciousness every night. The subconscious!!

Now again, this idea of consciousness being anything other than 'I' is other worldly and hard to grasp. So people automatically say "Well the subconscious is like a computer storing data. Thats all. Its not really conscious"

of course you would say its not really conscious, thats creepy. thats weird. to think about two minds in one body.

heres a question. have you ever held a conversation with a dream character?? yeah. a computer storing data can't do that. the subconscious creates the dream world. it runs it. it is the voice behind every dream character, and lets be honest here. its superior when it comes to the imagination!!

it is not a 'mindless' storing data computer as people like to view it just to make themselves more comfortable.

the subconscious is a real consciousness, it is a apart of 'you', just not the Conscious You, as you recognize it.

but the interesting thing about the subconsciousness is, it is not an 'I' consciousness as we understand. The subconscious is much closer to the whole body and the body's needs and urges. Its more primal, more instinctual and closer to our dna programming. Because it doesn't have an 'I' identity, it doesn't necessarily have the individual aspirations that the Conscious You has. It lives in the memories you give it. It does not dream.

But it does have desires. It has things it hates. Things its addicted to.

The Conscious You says "I'm going to quit smoking!" The subconscious just laughs and says "Try me!"

the point is, we have a dual nature that most people don't recognize. the point is, even our own mind shows us consciousness isn't always an 'I'

The brain is an amazing thing. . yet what is it basically?

Cells.

Cells organized in a community of cells.

Cells organized in a community of cells communicating information!!!

The sum of this information leads to consciousness as we understand it****************
As it turns out. . . Plants have cells. These cells are extremely specialized and well organized. . .They communicate information!!!!! Why are we still looking for a 'brain'? Its right there under our noses.

What an awesome post, and quite the theory. True or not makes you think. And entirely within the realms of possible.

Scientists have even suggested that we gather the genetic coding of our species and having it transferred into space into a habitable area and then spreading said genetic data which has been programmed similar to a nano bot if you will and rebuild the human species from scratch.

All of which would be entirely possible given the right technology was available, which eventually.... it will be.

As far as I can see it was a huge pile of crap and a large quantity of complete lies.

Science is the most powerful method we possess for discovering truth. Science has given us fascinating insights into the nature of reality. Science does not 'want' anybody to believe anything; the only agenda the scientific method has is the truth, and if you use the scientific method properly, the truth is the only thing you can possibly get.

If you doubt this then could you please turn off your computer and never again use an electronic device, drive in a vehicle, or accept medical treatment. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I don't quite think its the same. The frequency was changed to quantify the sound. They were already making the "noise," just not at a level audible to us. For you to say he simply made the simple, electrical impulse into a sound doesn't quite seem to be what the article implies. Not to say you're wrong, but I didn't gather that much from the article alone. Furthermore, I don't think the article implied that he was projecting our capacity of thought onto the cells, either.

No, but I think that is what happened.

Seriously, communication doesn't make cells any less simplistic little 'robots' that just act by natural laws. The way some of you people are looking at this, is as if the cells understand what their 'bleep bleep' means. They simply have no clue what they are doing, at least not any more than my calculator that says bleep-bleep when I press it's buttons or try to divide by zero. Seriously, I don't see how you guys can get all worked up over a 200-word article that sheds no new light on how cells works.

I hope you guys don't think cells are anything more then simple, (physical) law-bound tiny blobs. Seriously, ask a cell-biologist if you have to.

-

edit:
juroara: I mean this, stop writing, get off your ass, go to the library, and read some books about evolution. You just don't get it.

Originally Posted by Neruo

No, but I think that is what happened.

Seriously, communication doesn't make cells any less simplistic little 'robots' that just act by natural laws. The way some of you people are looking at this, is as if the cells understand what their 'bleep bleep' means. They simply have no clue what they are doing, at least not any more than my calculator that says bleep-bleep when I press it's buttons or try to divide by zero. Seriously, I don't see how you guys can get all worked up over a 200-word article that sheds no new light on how cells works.

I hope you guys don't think cells are anything more then simple, (physical) law-bound tiny blobs. Seriously, ask a cell-biologist if you have to.

I think you're too quick to pass a priori judgement on something that could obviously be explained much more in depth. I find the article fascinating because it presents the idea that cells are more complex than we originally thought. Since it's a new idea, it warrants more research. You're stuck in the preconceived notion that cells can't be anymore complex than we originally thought them to be (which, in itself, is very unscientific), unwilling to entertain the possibility - even in light of new (although seemingly inconclusive) evidence that they may be.

When I have time, I'll see if I can find any more information on it.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I think you're too quick to pass a priori judgement on something that could obviously be explained much more in depth. I find the article fascinating because it presents the idea that cells are more complex than we originally thought. Since it's a new idea, it warrants more research. You're stuck in the preconceived notion that cells can't be anymore complex than we originally thought them to be (which, in itself, is very unscientific), unwilling to entertain the possibility - even in light of new (although seemingly inconclusive) evidence that they may be.

When I have time, I'll see if I can find any more information on it.

I think calculators have feelings.

Lets debate that. Lets really get into it and research it, because it sounds totally reasonable with the knowledge we have about calculators, not like we know how calculators work. Not like we know that calculators do things because they are hard-wired to do so. Nooo, they arn't hard-wired, lets ignore that. It's way more fun to think calculators Think and Dream and have Feeeeeeelings!

It's as proper science as postulating cells think. And gosh, are you good at science.

/end sarcasm.

Seriously, no actual scientist believes cells think on one guy creating some sound based on a few electrical impulses that can be found in a calculator. We know for a great great deal how cells work. We also know to great length how brains work, at least we certainly know how complex they have to be to be concious. Cells are shit-ass simple, evolved to preform certain tasks, conciousness doesn't just jump out of there.

Seriously, I didn't know you were one of those emotional people too that believes things simply on grounds of if sounding nice, Orio.

Get a nice big book about cell biology and a nice big book about neuroscience and conciousness people, and hit yourself on the head with it.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I think you're too quick to pass a priori judgement on something that could obviously be explained much more in depth. I find the article fascinating because it presents the idea that cells are more complex than we originally thought. Since it's a new idea, it warrants more research. You're stuck in the preconceived notion that cells can't be anymore complex than we originally thought them to be (which, in itself, is very unscientific), unwilling to entertain the possibility - even in light of new (although seemingly inconclusive) evidence that they may be.

When I have time, I'll see if I can find any more information on it.

Look at ants.

In a colony, they can do some pretty amazing things-- i.e. bulding intricate mounds, waging wars, coordinating the whole nest, etc.

But ants themselves aren't very smart, or powerful. On their own, they can't really do anything.

Consciousness, and complex behaviours are just the result of the billions of cells that compose your body working together. We already knew that Neurons passed information between each other. It's called synapses, and I don't doubt that if you adjust the sound made by a synapses-- or anything, for that matter-- then you would be able to hear it. Big deal. This in no way proves that cells are conscious. ESPECIALLY specialized cells that depend on other cells who depend on other cells, etc. for survival. Like I said, consciousness is an emergent property. You take a skin cell from your skin, it dies.

But that falls back on the above: To what extent do single-celled organisms actually perform these tasks? I, personally, don't know. But, if it is on a level that is more than your plastic bag analogy, I'd believe it warrants further research, don't you?

On a side note:
I tend to think that the scientific community gets complacent too easily. When we [humans/scientists] think something has been given a plausible explanation, we are too entertain any opposing ideas unless they are proven at the time of conception.

I think you've missed the point of science. You can't jsut wave a new idea around and get instant acceptance. That's not science.

What do you mean "To what extent?"?

They can't actively respond to their environment because they don't have the ability of foresight or thinking ahead. They can only react to the now.

Originally Posted by Neruo

No, but I think that is what happened.

Seriously, communication doesn't make cells any less simplistic little 'robots' that just act by natural laws. The way some of you people are looking at this, is as if the cells understand what their 'bleep bleep' means. They simply have no clue what they are doing, at least not any more than my calculator that says bleep-bleep when I press it's buttons or try to divide by zero. Seriously, I don't see how you guys can get all worked up over a 200-word article that sheds no new light on how cells works.

I hope you guys don't think cells are anything more then simple, (physical) law-bound tiny blobs. Seriously, ask a cell-biologist if you have to.

-

edit:
juroara: I mean this, stop writing, get off your ass, go to the library, and read some books about evolution. You just don't get it.

Its not the same as the calculator. The calculator makes the sound for your benefit, so it doesn't need to know what it means. The cells are communicating with other cells. In all likelyhood, the sounds definitely do have meaning to the cells.

Originally posted by Xaqaria Its not the same as the calculator. The calculator makes the sound for your benefit, so it doesn't need to know what it means. The cells are communicating with other cells. In all likelyhood, the sounds definitely do have meaning to the cells.

Probably. But that doesn't change that it is most likley just a programmed reaction. It doesn't neccasserily 'know' how to respond to that signal, it just does so instinctually. It's not as if there is any sort of conclusive evidence to support that it is a conciouss decision or one made from the cells own inferences. (Don't know if you were implying that, Xaqaria, but the article did.)

OMG i can hear my cells talking!! they are saying...."Get ready my cell minions, we will overtake this bastard, unleash the VIIRUUUUSHHHH"

ahhhhhhh uuuurhghghghghghrh

By the way that is fucking awesome!!

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Fascinating article.

Link

I love you for finding this.

that sound was pretty scary to come from cells O.o
Millions of cells making that sound in your body O.o
But same time funny