Thread: So simple you will cry.

Ahhhh no. I'm saying what is energy made of?

It isn't.

It's as simple as you can possibly get.

That's the most ignorant thing I've ever heard. It HAS to be made of something. I'll tell you. Protons and Neutrons.
Okay I have no idea if that's true, I'm trying to recall like 7th grade science but yeah.

Originally Posted by tommo

That's the most ignorant thing I've ever heard. It HAS to be made of something. I'll tell you. Protons and Neutrons.
Okay I have no idea if that's true, I'm trying to recall like 7th grade science but yeah.

What?

Protons and Neutrons are what make up Atoms you idiot.

Energy is the single simplest unit of everything. It is made of itself. THere is nothing that can be simpler than energy. It is neither created nor destroyed.

Yeh I know I was completely off the ball there.
Keep in mind I haven't done any science since year 9.
I was just thinking of that fact that they have an electric charge. lol

But it's true energy can't be the smallest. You haven't really defined what energy is in your mind. Show some proof of your claims.

So even though I'm not sure on a lot of things in this matter I can say for sure it's not the base of everything. For example, rubbing a balloon creates energy right? You don't just have energy on it's own. Which means something makes the energy. Which means it wouldn't exist without something else. Which means energy isn't the simplest unit.

First law of Thermodynamics. Energy cannot be created or destroyed.

When you rub a ballon across a piece of cloth, you are pushing atoms around, and changing the charge of that area on the balloon, since balloons are made of rubber and aren't conductive, that positive charge will stay in one place on the balloon rather than flow through it, thus creating a static charge.

You're just moving the electric charge from one palce of another.

And no, energy does not have an electric charge. Energy is simply energy. It is the simplest unit of everything, and it's probably almost infinitely small. It cannot be made, it cannot be destroyed, it is a constant, and all it can do is change form.

Originally Posted by tommo

Ahhhh no. I'm saying what is energy made of?

It doesn't necessarily have to be made of anything. But in an infinite universe, doesn't it have to be infinitely divisible?

Atoms were once thought to be the smallest particle. Completely indivisible. Then, someone realized they could be broken up into particles called protons, neutrons, and electrons. Then we thought those were the most basic particles. Then, I believe we discovered they could be broken further(i think leptons and quarks?). As far as we know, energy can't be subdivided. That's what we said about everything else too, and look what happened!

Lol I was just listening to Alan Watts talking about breaking down the atom. They thought it was the smallest then they got protons, neutrons and mesons.
Yeh, that's basically what I'm saying. They'll always find something smaller. I don't know what delusion people have in their head that makes them think every new discovery is the final.
Learn from history people.

Energy isn't a particle, though.

It is the most basic unit of everything. That is what it is. It breaks down into nothing.

That is the definition of energy, and it is measured in joules.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, thus it is the smallest unit of anything. You can't see energy, it is not a particle like an atom, or proton or quark.

Can't see energy? So what, everything is invisible then?

Of course you can see it. Maybe we don't have the tools necessary yet but we will. However I still don't really know what you're referring to as energy. So I'm kind of perplexed. do you mean, electricity? Energy that drives our bodies? what?

I don't care what the definition of it is, I'm sure the definition of atom 100 years ago was 'smallest particle in the universe.'

Originally Posted by tommo

Can't see energy? So what, everything is invisible then?

Of course you can see it. Maybe we don't have the tools necessary yet but we will. However I still don't really know what you're referring to as energy. So I'm kind of perplexed. do you mean, electricity? Energy that drives our bodies? what?

I don't care what the definition of it is, I'm sure the definition of atom 100 years ago was 'smallest particle in the universe.'

No. Energy. Energy isn't a fucking particle. It's the most basic unit of anything and everything. Matter is a form of energy.

Energy can't be seen because it isn't matter, it doesn't have mass, and so only its effects on matter are visible. I.e. electriciy, heat, plasma

Hehe ok. Keep deluding yourself.

Originally Posted by tommo

Ahhhh no. I'm saying what is energy made of?

energy is like a property of a system. saying what is energy made of is like saying what is length made of or something.

Thats why that equilibrium idea made sense. Consciousness and universe go together like a positive and negative charge. You can't have one without the other.

What if you have consciousness and no universe. Then you just have empty space. And vice-versa. Why? Because "nothing" can't perceive "something" and something can't perceive "nothing"

Originally Posted by drewmandan

I have a sneaking suspicion he sees balls of plasma ala Dragonball Z.

lol

Ok so you're taling about the energy like Einstein talked about. Paraphrased "Everything has energy, a (whatever) could power the Earth forever if we can figure out how to release it's energy".
Anyway, I'm kinda done talking about this now. lol. Nothing coming out of it and the OP had nothing to do with it anyway.

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

Thats why that equilibrium idea made sense. Consciousness and universe go together like a positive and negative charge. You can't have one without the other.

What if you have consciousness and no universe. Then you just have empty space. And vice-versa. Why? Because "nothing" can't perceive "something" and something can't perceive "nothing"

Don't you think it's a little arrogant to suggest that the "universe" needs "conciousness" to exist? So if the human race goes extinct every ceases to exist, or what?

No way.

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

Don't you think it's a little arrogant to suggest that the "universe" needs "conciousness" to exist? So if the human race goes extinct every ceases to exist, or what?

No way.

yes everything exists. because it is human consciousness that creates the reality you live in.

How can the universe be, if no one can percieve or understand it.

Its the human consciousness that defines everything. Thoughts create reality.

If you couldn't think..what would you know what a tree looked like, or a flower smells like.

watch mind over matter video on youtube to get a better understanding of what i'm talking about.

People keep trying to discredit the video, but no one has been able to answer the measurement problem yet.

Religion, spirituality, science, are all starting to point to the same thing.

I'm not saying i completely believe the idea, I know it has some truth.

but its fun to think about.

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

If you couldn't think..what would you know what a tree looked like, or a flower smells like.

You wouldn't. That's the point.
You'd be dead. It really is that simple.

Exactly, but it doesn't mean the earth stops being.
It's still there, we just don't perceive it.
I personally think people are too blinded by the profundity of the statement 'if a tree falls in the woods and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?" to actually think about it logically. Of course it makes a sound, the sound waves are still there.
But if you define sound as sound waves that reach an ear, then there is no sound.

But in actuality that completely misses the point of the question which was posed in Zen Buddhism.

Originally Posted by tommo

But in actuality that completely misses the point of the question which was posed in Zen Buddhism.

Which is?