Thread: Symbols and all they stand for...

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

Please don't bash me on my closed-mindedness about certain things. It is what it is and you won't change my mind.

The Swastika thread started me thinking about symbols and how they adapt over time.
My own religious beliefs and my rebellious 16 year old son has made the topic of greater interest to me.

I do not allow pentacles /pentagrams into my home. Period. What someone else believes is fine with me. Everyone has freedom of choice and freedom of religion etc. But in MY HOME it's different.
My son likes to draw and I encourage his artistic side. But the pentagram keeps turning up in his work.

His Foster Mom accuses him of being a Satanist. He says he's not. He claims he only draws the symbol because he likes the design and that he's not using it in his work as a religious statement.
I tell him that in today's day and age, you can't change people's perceptions about certain things, and I used the Swastika thread as an example.

My nature is to "not rock the boat". If I KNOW something is offensive to someone else, I restrain from bringing it up. My son is the total opposite lol. He does certain things JUST to get a reaction out of people.

He says he shouldn't stop drawing something just because some people don't like it. And while I agree to a point, I think some things are better off left alone.
Namely: You don't wear a Swastika around victims of Natzi (sp) persecution and you don't draw pentagrams in Church or sport them around devoutly religiously people. It's a matter of respect.

He also jokes about having his penis tattooed with the American flag so every time he has sex, he's making a statement of "F" you to the government. *rolls eyes* He thinks it's the funniest idea in the world and that even the President would have to laugh.
Even though Jehovah's Witnesses are politically neutral, we respect the laws of the lands in which we live. I tell him that would be tremendously disrespectful and that the President almost suredly would NOT laugh and he would likely be killed by soldiers who have fought to defend their country. To defile the symbol of that nation would not be viewed as humorous.

What do y'all think?
What is the line you draw or are there any?
Are you more for protecting "freedom of speech and expression" or respecting the views and feelings of others?
Is there a middle ground? What would it be?

Do you feel the same way about certain figures of speech like "nigger/nigga" and "bitch/biotch"?
Are there any times when such phrases are acceptable or should they be banned from our language?

No offense, but this is just my opinion and I do not mean in any way to offend you or anyone else...

If his foster mom is so uptight about a five-pointed shape that gets drawn on paper that she accuses the artist of being a Satanist, then frankly I do not believe she deserves to care for children. I can understand your code, because you do not immediately jump to conclusions and will respect the rules of others.

I am not quite as religious as most and cannot find a title for the belief system I use. My guideline is this: I will do what I want, and you can do what you want. If you make any effort to change what I am doing, don't expect me to dismiss you politely more than twice. Is it possible that your son is just feeling provoked? With enough pressure, almost anyone will react negatively to that. Remember how the United States of America got it's start?

There's a time and place for everything, it just really bugs me when others try to force the opinion that they are right all the time about everything on everyone they meet.

About the phrases above, I believe that there are times for them to be used, but those times are rare and at least 95% of the time they are used needlessly.

Symbols can only "possess" meaning after you've given them meaning. Drawing a pentacle for the purpose of having a pretty looking geometric figure is one thing, and drawing it with a bunch of Latin words in a specific fashion with the intent of wanting someone to vomit blood until they die is quite another. I stand with what Black Eagle has already stated.

Zhalyin you are worrying about nothing, you leave it up to God know?

Why not worry about something more serious, cause their are many worse things that parents have to deal with.

If he is subconsciously drawing pentagrams perhaps your bloodline had a lot of pagans many many eons ago?

Really it doesn't matter because it's just a drawing.

I used to wear a Pentacle everywhere, all the time for many years. I squeezed it while I gave birth to my first son. It was a gift from my "first love" and every time, without fail, I had reached the end of my rope and was on the verge of literally self-destruction, that same first love would show up or call. One year, I broke all the points off of it (it was pewter) and threw it away. I felt an instant "freeing".

That was nothing but a battle from inside of you, you stopped rebelling to whatever voice is inside of your head. I read that your grandmother put the religion in your head. So perhaps she played a large role in your raising? You finally gave in to "god". Destroying the pentagram didn't really release any evil from you, their has to be a psychological explanation. Or the freeing was because it was from an old love, not because it caused any of your self-destruction..

It's hard to silence the voices of those who raised you, for good and bad.

You are now following in their path by being scared that your son is using pentagrams, when really religion is inconsequential and what matters is the heart of yourself and your son.

haha, I used to think I had Celtic and Wicca in my bloodline when I was young and interested in all this.
For me, the war with my son isn't only about his love of drawing the symbol. It's a power struggle. I tell him not to draw such in my house and he does anyhow (and to a large degree... I've found the symbol drawn on furniture, on walls, on practically any surface that's easily concealed). It seems to me he likes the symbol so much simply because I don't.

I stayed with my grandmother for a few weeks to a couple months every summer. She didn't really indoctrinate me. The most we did was go to church on Sunday and say prayers before eating and before sleeping.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

haha, I used to think I had Celtic and Wicca in my bloodline when I was young and interested in all this.
For me, the war with my son isn't only about his love of drawing the symbol. It's a power struggle. I tell him not to draw such in my house and he does anyhow (and to a large degree... I've found the symbol drawn on furniture, on walls, on practically any surface that's easily concealed). It seems to me he likes the symbol so much simply because I don't.

I stayed with my grandmother for a few weeks to a couple months every summer. She didn't really indoctrinate me. The most we did was go to church on Sunday and say prayers before eating and before sleeping.

I'm sure she had a big role in your life, especially during the summer.

If you stop worrying about the symbol, you have a better chance of him stopping.

Originally Posted by Invader

Symbols can only "possess" meaning after you've given them meaning. Drawing a pentacle for the purpose of having a pretty looking geometric figure is one thing, and drawing it with a bunch of Latin words in a specific fashion with the intent of wanting someone to vomit blood until they die is quite another. I stand with what Black Eagle has already stated.

If you don't think symbols aren't powerfull and don't have meaning to certain people. tattoo a swastika on your arm and go to the local synagogue.