Thread: 'Homosexuality cure' and secular studies?

I am aware that there have been many books published, mainly Christian, dealing with 'proof' that homosexuality can be cured. I know that the APA treats ex-gay therapy as non-effective, but I am interested in seeing what these people who claim that it can be cured have to say.

My basic assumption is that secular psychology is likely to be a lot less biased, but the very idea that a religious group should be able to propose and 'prove' something that secular studies haven't seems a bit iffy to me.

I was wondering if anyone has done serious research into these supposed 'cures' for homosexuality. How compelling are these fabled studies and arguments?

You ever watch South Park? lol

They were just a little bicurious!

There is no cure for something that is not a disease, homosexuality is visible in many different animals. If the gay conversion workshop is anything like normal christian philosophy, you either become straight or burn in hell.

On another note, it must not be too effective, Bruno overcame the words of the gay conversion priest :p

Technically you can cure anything. Hitler managed to cure tolerance to jews. It's called brainwashing. You can program a person to think anything.

No you can't. The persecution of Jews is a concept on a much higher cognitive level, and even then there were some who did not buy it. Sexual identity is an instinctive trait programmed very deep in the brain and is hence not a plastic thing; can you brainwash somebody to multiply ten digit numbers together in their head, or to have synaesthesia?

Somebody should ask Ted Haggard how 'curing' homosexuality worked out for him.

Originally Posted by C-Fonz

homosexuality is visible in many different animals

So is rape, and yet we try pretty hard to avert that.

Saying there is a cure for homosexuality is to me like saying there is a cure for being an optimist. Like someone said, you cannot cure that which is not a disease. Even if you can change a homosexual into a straight person, the process would be akin to brainwashing.

Originally Posted by Lëzen

So is rape, and yet we try pretty hard to avert that.

And the difference being that one act physically and mentally harms people where the other doesn't. In any case, rape is sexualized violence, and has nothing to do with sexual identity.

^Wasn't really intended to be a serious argument, but rather intended to show the invalidity of that particular argument. "Ooh, [insert random animal here]s sometimes have gay sex, so it must be alright for the rest of us." Makes sense, right?

Whether homosexuality is right or wrong isn't the issue with me; it's the fact that people use the habits of other species to justify our own habits. That, I believe, is wrong on all levels.

Invalid argument is invalid.

...Perhaps I could go on to say something in regards to it being hypocritical to give homosexuals so much sympathy because they are "born the way they are" when rapists are also predisposed to be the way they are - some of them really can't control their actions, but does that mean they should be absolved of all blame? Of course not. But, I'll leave that topic alone...with the exception of that passing mention, of course.

I believe that if someone really wants to change his or her sexual orientation it can be done. But it is not a disease, or require any "treatment".

Originally Posted by Bizarre Jester

I believe that if someone really wants to change his or her sexual orientation it can be done. But it is not a disease, or require any "treatment".

I want you to try and become female right now. Just decide to do it. Really. How's that going for you?

Originally Posted by C-Fonz

The ancient greeks had the right idea :] From what I've heard they were live and let live.

I like this guy.

Originally Posted by Bizarre Jester

I believe that if someone really wants to change his or her sexual orientation it can be done. But it is not a disease, or require any "treatment".

Well, you're wrong. As previously stated, I want you to try right now, with an open mind, to become gay. Just do it. What have you got to lose, if you could change right back, right? Sexually attracted to guys, yet? Does the thought of another man's penis turn you on? No? I thought not...

Originally Posted by Alextanium

I want you to try and become female right now. Just decide to do it. Really. How's that going for you?

I like this guy, too.

If you think more about men's penises and feel good about it, the more you will like it....you can be gay...

you attract what you feel good about..that's all there is to it and it's the law of the universe. I won't even go into how this is even scientifically possible..because most people ignore the scientific evidence that I provide. Fear is only a prison for the mind. Your the warden and it's up to you to release yourself from this prison. No-one else can help you., except yourself. Same thing goes for depressives, alcoholics and drug addicts.

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

because most people ignore the scientific evidence that I provide

Originally Posted by Alextanium

I want you to try and become female right now. Just decide to do it. Really. How's that going for you?

Calm down I'm not bashing/flaming anybody. What you are describing would be a physical thing, and no I wouldn't want to do that. Nobody really knows why people are gay/bi, but it is a mental thing. I said that if someone really wants to change the way they think, what they find attractive, they probably could. I didn't say anyone should try or am encouraging it.

Originally Posted by Bizarre Jester

Calm down I'm not bashing/flaming anybody. What you are describing would be a physical thing, and no I wouldn't want to do that. Nobody really knows why people are gay/bi, but it is a mental thing. I said that if someone really wants to change the way they think, what they find attractive, they probably could. I didn't say anyone should try or am encouraging it.

It is a mental thing, but did it ever occur to you that it has to do with the physical structure of the brain, like schizophrenia? True, it has to do with the connection of neurons within the brain, but perhaps that specific area is beyond the control of the individual. Take this: I want you to turn off the part of your brain that deals with hearing. If it's just a connection of neurons in your brain, you should have total control over this. Yet, somehow, you continue to hear, do you not?

Originally Posted by Mario92

It is a mental thing, but did it ever occur to you that it has to do with the physical structure of the brain, like schizophrenia? True, it has to do with the connection of neurons within the brain, but perhaps that specific area is beyond the control of the individual. Take this: I want you to turn off the part of your brain that deals with hearing. If it's just a connection of neurons in your brain, you should have total control over this. Yet, somehow, you continue to hear, do you not?

okay you could make an argument, but sexual attractions as a result of how your brain is structured doesn't really add up.

Looks like you need a gay on the scene.

I'm pretty damn gay. Actually, I'm full gay. I've tried to make myself be attracted to men, and it just didn't work. I can't help thinking chicks are hot.

Originally Posted by Mario92

It is a mental thing, but did it ever occur to you that it has to do with the physical structure of the brain, like schizophrenia?

Yes. I read about a study in Scientific American Mind that found that the brains of gay men are shaped more like the brains of straight women, and the brains of lesbians are shaped more like the brains of straight men. This is all over the brain, not just in one place. For example, in straight women and gay men the hemispheres of the brain are usually pretty much equal in size, while in straight men and lesbians the left hemisphere is usually slightly larger than the right.

I have to say, my brain has masculine and feminine aspects to it. For example, in some social aspects I'm a complete man, because I don't understand or know how to interact with girls like a girl. This is made worse by the fact that girls expect me to speak their language. But then in other aspects my brain works like a girl's would-- I talk like a girl, with rising intonation and question words at the ends of sentences (like "right?" or "yeah?" and "okay?"), and I think that's actually partially to try to make up with my manly behavior. Plus add to that the fact that my body is sending out female hormones and affecting my brain that way, and I'm not really "a man trapped in a woman's body." My brain's more androgynous.

If you're a man, thinking about penises will not "turn you gay", unless you really are secretly gay and you're just trying to deny it, but then that's not turning you gay anyway. That's just revealing your secret gayness.

Sexual orientation is not a choice. Yes, you can choose the type of person that you have sex with, but you can't change the type of person you are attracted to. There's a difference. Many gay people have sex with someone of the opposite sex to try to turn themselves straight and it doesn't work. At least, you can't make yourself "feel" straight.

The only way that you can truly choose your orientation is if you're bisexual, but then, again, you're just choosing your actions; not your feelings.

I would like to be cured of heterosexuality. I would get sex all the time, if I could only find the cure for this curse!