Thread: Proof that your Government is Not Really Yours

Government is there to give direction because there are too many individual opinions.
Anarchy or world peace are the only true 'solutions'. Either totally unite opinions or have all opinions in chaos.
Those who dream a happy-medium, yet complain about the government that is that happy-medium, are st00pid.

The government in America right now cares about pretty much the same most Americans care about -- themselves.

I'm still up for the self-sufficient island community. Who posted that, Ska?

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I think the main concern I have with the issues the article brings up is that their is strong and damning evidence against these people, but our government and media are not only not doing anything to hold these people accountable, they are trying to keep the whole thing quiet. We have reached a point in our history in which giant corporations can lose billions of dollars and become "too big to fail" and thus be bailed out, and government officials can become "too big to bust" by committing such over arching acts of treason against this country that no one wants to talk about it and make themselves as part of the government look bad.

We are sending the message that as long as you do something big enough and long enough, there will be no repercussions for your crimes against society. It sets a dangerous precedent that is hard to step back from. It also shows that we as citizens have no power to stop our government from selling us out to the highest bidder.

Okay, but this still doesn't warrant labeling the entire government as sold out to foreign nations.

And I still haven't accepted the article in the OP as "damning". This is the internet. Any whackjob can make shit up and post it online. I'll look further into it, but what evidence can you provide me that this isn't completely made up?

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

This saddens me, because a lot of people feel this way and it is exactly the opinion that a corrupt government would try to foster. If we do not hold on to the power of revolution, then how are we free? I think Mr. Benjamin Franklin said it best, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

That quote references laws put in place that take away freedom to gain a little bit of safety. Violently revolting against the government would cause the entire nation to splinter and become instable. The constitution, being the symbol of the Union and Republic, would go straight out the window. That isn't a little bit of safety.

Originally Posted by Abra

Europe would still be here.

The eternal bastion and stronghold of civilisation.

True, but remember: Europe is afraid of its own shadow.

Originally Posted by ClouD

Government is there to give direction because there are too many individual opinions.
Anarchy or world peace are the only true 'solutions'. Either totally unite opinions or have all opinions in chaos.
Those who dream a happy-medium, yet complain about the government that is that happy-medium, are st00pid.

The government in America right now cares about pretty much the same most Americans care about -- themselves.

You have to admit that the government could at least do a better job than it's doing currently.

That will always be true of any government, anywhere, forever.

Originally Posted by stonedape

You have to admit that the government could at least do a better job than it's doing currently.

Having idiots in government is a good thing. We want the dumbest people in there. People who don't know where the doorknob is or that Arizona is a state. Can you imagine the horror of government politicians actually being proficient in tax collection? In execution of legislation? A proficient government better able to take away your liberties is much worse then a government too stupid to realize them.

Yes but you fail to realise if you have a dumb government a group of slick bankers can just go and take them over like they really did in 1913, stupid government is stupid.

We need a smart government, not TOO smart.

Mandatory RFID chips implanted to track their every move and record anything they say.
Also they should be under 24/7 surveillance and all their phones tapped and their homes bugged with cameras and microphones, they also are not allowed to use cash, only their rfid chip for monetary transactions.

to me, a country where the GOVERNMENT IS ENSLAVED BY US, is the perfect country.

And if they get out of line we drop OUR iron fist on their scrawny asses, and anyone who challenges the peoples demands will be met with brutal force. (aka Execution on live television)


Also, the government should be drugged with drugs that remove feelings like greed, anger, sadness, happyness....sort like that movie equilibrium, only the government would be drugged and subservient to US.

They would be our slaves, and we would be their masters...

and our new dollar bill would have an up-side down all seeing eye pyramid, with US at the top and the elite at the bottom, and a dagger sticking through the all seeing eye.

and instead of novus ordo seclorum I would replace it with

"Peoples world order"

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

what evidence can you provide me that this isn't completely made up?

If you think that article is completely made up, that is your thing man. It would be so simple for you to look up Sibel Edmonds and find other sources (including video of her deposition) that I am more inclined to just let you believe whatever you want to believe instead of force feeding you evidence.

As for violent revolution splintering this country, That is neither here nor there. I believe I've said at least once that violent revolution is futile, and I've even presented a possible alternative. We are not living in a world in which we need either to accept the burdens of our government or violently oppose it. There are other options.

Originally Posted by guerilla

Yes but you fail to realise if you have a dumb government a group of slick bankers can just go and take them over like they really did in 1913, stupid government is stupid.

We need a smart government, not TOO smart.

Mandatory RFID chips implanted to track their every move and record anything they say.
Also they should be under 24/7 surveillance and all their phones tapped and their homes bugged with cameras and microphones, they also are not allowed to use cash, only their rfid chip for monetary transactions.

to me, a country where the GOVERNMENT IS ENSLAVED BY US, is the perfect country.

And if they get out of line we drop OUR iron fist on their scrawny asses, and anyone who challenges the peoples demands will be met with brutal force. (aka Execution on live television)


Also, the government should be drugged with drugs that remove feelings like greed, anger, sadness, happyness....sort like that movie equilibrium, only the government would be drugged and subservient to US.

They would be our slaves, and we would be their masters...

and our new dollar bill would have an up-side down all seeing eye pyramid, with US at the top and the elite at the bottom, and a dagger sticking through the all seeing eye.

and instead of novus ordo seclorum I would replace it with

"Peoples world order"

Quite the imagination you have.

Unfortunately there is no such thing as "the government," only individuals .

Well we gotta chip the government 'peoples' and surveill them worse then they do to us and we have to know every single thing they do so we can impeach and expell them and any others who commit treason.

and an electoral process that is REAL AND FAIR where all the votes are actually counted, always.

Not to mention drug them up so they cannot rebel against the people, we must control and rule them forever and never allow them to ever increase in power and the people are their masters.

I like the sound of that type of America.

Originally Posted by guerilla

Well we gotta chip the government 'peoples' and surveill them worse then they do to us and we have to know every single thing they do so we can impeach and expell them and any others who commit treason.

and an electoral process that is REAL AND FAIR where all the votes are actually counted, always.

Not to mention drug them up so they cannot rebel against the people, we must control and rule them forever and never allow them to ever increase in power and the people are their masters.

I like the sound of that type of America.

Lol, you're batshit insane. You go on and on and on about civil liberties and evil totalitarianism and yet you want to treat certain people like jews in a ghetto with all the "weapons" and "tactics" that you usually whine about, Jesus Christ...

Who's supposed to do the surveilling anyways?

ever see live footage broadcast over the net? well, kinda like that.

Plus if the majority dominates the minority there won't be very many people being watched,

Who would be watched would be:

Senators, governors, congressman/women, and all levels of state and federal government such as white house chief of staff and many many more, cia and fbi should be watched too, all of them...but in a perfect world their wouldn't be a cia or w/e.


if you add up those numbers they are tiny in comparison to regular citizens that don't work for the government.

So the tyranny of them is justified, government won't be nice if you treat it nice, you need to tame it like a wild beast or lion or something, its not a nice friend, its a wild bull.

You gotta lasso and tie down that sob and make sure he doesn't get outta control.

being formal to the government and asking for them to do something we want is like asking a bull to roll over and play dead.

What would be perfect is a surveillance of them and reporting of it on the news, thats all....nothing else...too me it doesn't sound that imposing really, I mean they are hired for a BIG job and its important, we watch security guards at the mall ffs and even cops are watched by internal affairs, why not the government?

I don't believe we can mistrust a government to the point of drugging and surveilling each individual member of that government 24 hours a day and still give them the authority needed to effectively govern. It would essentially set up a never ending cold war type hierarchy of everyone spying on everyone else to make sure no one is doing anything that anyone else thinks is bad. We should be moving towards more trust, not away from it.

Originally Posted by Laughing Man

Having idiots in government is a good thing. We want the dumbest people in there. People who don't know where the doorknob is or that Arizona is a state. Can you imagine the horror of government politicians actually being proficient in tax collection? In execution of legislation? A proficient government better able to take away your liberties is much worse then a government too stupid to realize them.

I didn't mean that they should be intelligent or good at those sorts of things, but I suppose your right. I meant that they could do a better job in terms of they could be much more efficient and actually do things that they say they will.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Quite the imagination you have.

Unfortunately there is no such thing as "the government," only individuals .

I agree. Unfortunately, only a small minority see it that way.

Originally Posted by guerilla

Yes but you fail to realise if you have a dumb government a group of slick bankers can just go and take them over like they really did in 1913, stupid government is stupid.

Well it wasn't that government consisted of stupid people in the Progressive years. They were technocrats. Intellectuals who wanted to use science and progress to make individual lives easier and more efficient.

campfema.com

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

That is scary!
Violent revolution won't work. They have the high-tech weapons, they have the prisons. They have the mercenaries and the white phosphorous and the depleted uranium and the land mines. They have microwave weapons.

Instead, take out the root: money. That is what they live off of, but money is a made up thing used to enslave us. Like the Matrix. Without money their power will crumble.

Couldn't have possibly said it better myself. I only read the first page of replies, but I'm really glad you posted this Xaqaria. This is the kind of shit that I've been trying to wake people up about.

I hope people understand my stance as one of action, not one of fear or panic. Fear feeds the problem. Violent retaliation is not only futile, it is exactly what these globalists want. First of all, yes, they actually do have microwave weapons that can heat the skin to some insanely hot degree instantly from 150 feet away, which probably means they can do it from further, and just aren't telling us.

Second of all, in several states, governments are pushing to find a loophole to suspend the Posse Comitatus act in the Constitution. For those of you who don't know what that is, it is the constitutional law that prohibits the designation of peace officer status to military personell within the homeland unless under a national emergency.

In in simple terms, it's a way to ammend the constitution in order to legally impose martial law, and by taking up your guns and deciding to fight, you will be giving them an excuse to instate martial law, and then the prison camps come into play.

In many states, martial law already gets imposed. I live in Sacramento, the capital of California. Our police force is short staffed, so not only are they merging the jurisdictions of some PD's, they are also allowing military patrol. Don't tell me it's bullshit, because as someone who LIVES here, I'm telling you that's what they are doing, I watch guys in military outfits on police detail more often than I'd like to.

When I ask about it, they claim to be running "drills," which in all reality, probably is what they are doing. But it's likely to psychologically customize people to seeing military acting as peace officers, which is illegal.

Cops here have military contracted weapons too. Military choppers, etc.

Like Dannon said, you destroy money, you destroy the power structure. Money is the root of all evil. Money corrupts, almost always, and the more money usually results in the more corruption, especially for these big fucking asshole companies. Because money cannot exist if there isn't profit somewhere, and profit, mathematically speaking, can only exist if there is scarcity, which is why oil companies hold many patents for extremely advanced energy technology that ALREADY EXISTS to use clean, safe renewable and more efficient sources of energy.

Mathematically speaking, money in a country with any sort of fractional reserve central bank, CANNOT exist without massive debt, because money is CREATED out of debt in a fractional reserve system. Unfortunately, there is no centralized monetary system in the world that is not a fractional reserve system, so basically, we're FUCKED until we change that. Money is the most evil shit there is, and as paradoxical as this is, you are going to need a LOT of money if you want to change the system.

Posse Comitatus is already essentially impotent, especially if a state of emergency is declared. Very few people realize this, but we are still officially in a state of emergency as a nation due to swine flu, as ridiculous as that seems since it is such a non-issue. If the president were able to maintain a perpetual state of emergency (which he has for the last 4 months) then Posse Comitatus would be basically nullified.

I love this thread, i mean absolutely love it!

lol, Xaq, guerilla, Rainman, Invader i applaud all of you for having the balls to stand out to state your beliefs and opinions and sharing the information you have. Indeed you all have come pretty good ways here, you've discussed important issues and realized that violent revo's wont work, and that the money is the weapon with which to weaken and destroy the beast. Although weapons are a good idea to keep around for protection.

See i've been going through the topic of this thread for a long time now, a very long time. I've come to two conclusions, the first is that nothing will ever change because the American people ARE tamed now, only a small few are awake, and so we will be labeled as traitors and terrorists if we try anything. Second, this would be the only other conclusion, which is that even if we refuse to spend money and pull a large group out of the mix, we would be charged of treason on the grounds of trying to secede illegally or trying to damage the American Economy.... as long as a greater number are asleep than are awake the government will see those awake as collateral damage....

Don't get me wrong, i would take up arms with you all in a heart beat, i would also accompany you with separating from the system and lend my Tennessee crop growing know how and construction experience to the group, but almost all is futile.

See through some serious meditation i've learned a lot. One thing is that if there is the possibility that you can win the fight, then there IS the possibility you can lose it as well, and i believe that's what we've ultimately done. We've dug such a deep hole that the walls are crumbling down on top of us and burying us alive my friends....

Edit: what i mean to imply by all this is that there is no saving the american government. Do you really think a government that has lasted so many wars and committed such atrocities wouldn't have thought of it's first potential enemies when they began to turn corrupt? The first enemy in a "Nation" becoming corrupt IS the people of the "Nation".

So the only solution is of individual value, meaning we each have to take our freedoms from the government, disown it, and declare yourself of a separate allegiance be it of whatever you choose.

here's a little something if this has left a bitter taste in your mouth:

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

campfema.com

I recently watched camp fema and thought it was pretty eye opening. no exaggeration, no bull shit sales pitch to scare you. it was just the facts. i think people need to wake up to the fact the america has been taken over slowly and that the people in power have left us with very few options. i disagree that violence could never work but that is a last option. we still have other options open to us. i would suggest trying to educate people about how we owe allegiance to the bill of rights and the constitution and not political parties or pop culture. thats a good start. the elites and the "illuminated" do not care if you do your sit ins or boycott anything. they will find a way to "fix" the problem if you create one that is big enough to challenge them. it is sometimes hard to remain hopeful but what else can you do? FIGHT THE NEW WORLD ORDER

http://www.articlesoffreedom.us/ThePlan.aspx

wow this discussion died rather quickly after i posted. and yes i meant i with an I. wake up and either agree or disagree and stand up for your ideas and beliefs.

Originally Posted by poopman

wow this discussion died rather quickly after i posted. and yes i meant i with an I. wake up and either agree or disagree and stand up for your ideas and beliefs.

It hasn't died, its been plugging along at a pretty regular pace.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

http://www.articlesoffreedom.us/ThePlan.aspx

I may make a thread about this because it is important. I know I will be at my state capitol building representing myself and the constitution on April 19th, will you?

Originally Posted by guerilla

Yes but you fail to realise if you have a dumb government a group of slick bankers can just go and take them over like they really did in 1913, stupid government is stupid.

We need a smart government, not TOO smart.

Mandatory RFID chips implanted to track their every move and record anything they say.
Also they should be under 24/7 surveillance and all their phones tapped and their homes bugged with cameras and microphones, they also are not allowed to use cash, only their rfid chip for monetary transactions.

to me, a country where the GOVERNMENT IS ENSLAVED BY US, is the perfect country.

And if they get out of line we drop OUR iron fist on their scrawny asses, and anyone who challenges the peoples demands will be met with brutal force. (aka Execution on live television)


Also, the government should be drugged with drugs that remove feelings like greed, anger, sadness, happyness....sort like that movie equilibrium, only the government would be drugged and subservient to US.

They would be our slaves, and we would be their masters...

and our new dollar bill would have an up-side down all seeing eye pyramid, with US at the top and the elite at the bottom, and a dagger sticking through the all seeing eye.

and instead of novus ordo seclorum I would replace it with

"Peoples world order"

You have some great ideas there. I really mean that. Drugs to remove greed and such. The best government is probably made out of Buddhists.

But I think your idea is flawed somewhere. If the government is enslaved by us (who is us anyway?), is it still a government?