Thread: Proof that your Government is Not Really Yours

I've known that forever. Now there's evidence and people doublethink and deny it.

I'm ready for a revolution. People have the right to overthrow their government when it no longer serves them.

Who else here is investing in a rifle? 'Cause it's getting to be a better idea all the time.

^the day I turn 18 I'm applying for a NJ handgun license. Let's hope it isn't harder still by then than it is now.

A revolution certainly isn't the worst option, but sadly I don't feel that nearly enough people would be willing to do anything. Americans are always complaining about problems but not doing anything (or worse, ignoring the problem!). Eventually, though. One awake, always awake.

I'd say the healthcare "debate" is the perfect example
of the state of our government. Nothing can get passed because the republicans are all in the hip pockets of the insurance companies, and reform benefits the American people but not them.

I knew some of the people on this site were insane, but now Im kind of scared.

That was an interesting article.

I recently came across two documentaries that I find illustrate the subject of this thread very well. I'll post them here for anyone that is interested:

The New Rulers of the World - John Pilger :
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...e+world&hl=en#

The War on Democracy - John Pilger :
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...mocracy&hl=en#

[Edit] typo in producers name

His name is John Pilger. I like his films, though.

Screw your heads back on, people. Let's assume everything written in that article is true. There's no reason to assume that the entire government is corrupt.

You talk about revolution, but maybe that's what the enemies of America want. If revolution were to occur, the United States as a powerful, unified entity would crumble, bringing down all that we, as freedom-loving people, believe in.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

If revolution were to occur, the United States as a powerful, unified entity would crumble, bringing down all that we, as freedom-loving people, believe in.

Wait...what?

Bleagle, though revolution is quite overboard in the current situation, America's power is wanning, our economy is in shambles, our infrastructure is crubling (rated around c/d by inspectors), and our government isn't doing anything beyond petty bickering driven by greed. If they don't knock it off, the US won't be #1 forever.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

Screw your heads back on, people. Let's assume everything written in that article is true. There's no reason to assume that the entire government is corrupt.

I think the main concern I have with the issues the article brings up is that their is strong and damning evidence against these people, but our government and media are not only not doing anything to hold these people accountable, they are trying to keep the whole thing quiet. We have reached a point in our history in which giant corporations can lose billions of dollars and become "too big to fail" and thus be bailed out, and government officials can become "too big to bust" by committing such over arching acts of treason against this country that no one wants to talk about it and make themselves as part of the government look bad.

We are sending the message that as long as you do something big enough and long enough, there will be no repercussions for your crimes against society. It sets a dangerous precedent that is hard to step back from. It also shows that we as citizens have no power to stop our government from selling us out to the highest bidder.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

You talk about revolution, but maybe that's what the enemies of America want. If revolution were to occur, the United States as a powerful, unified entity would crumble, bringing down all that we, as freedom-loving people, believe in.

This saddens me, because a lot of people feel this way and it is exactly the opinion that a corrupt government would try to foster. If we do not hold on to the power of revolution, then how are we free? I think Mr. Benjamin Franklin said it best, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

You think thats crazy, check this shit out, the government can assassinate citizens now, its policy.....

Originally Posted by guerilla

You think thats crazy, check this shit out, the government can assassinate citizens now, its policy.....

That is scary!
Violent revolution won't work. They have the high-tech weapons, they have the prisons. They have the mercenaries and the white phosphorous and the depleted uranium and the land mines. They have microwave weapons.

Instead, take out the root: money. That is what they live off of, but money is a made up thing used to enslave us. Like the Matrix. Without money their power will crumble.

Why the hell would we need to have a (violent?) revolution to change this country?

1) Like it has been noted, nobody gives a damn enough to actually use violence.
2) There's a magical election system that Americans can use to change who represents them. If you truly desire to follow the path of the founding fathers then spread the word first, not the bullets.

EDIT: Or we could unite with Canada. I wouldn't mind that.

We are the government. We run shit...well we would if everyone wasn't afraid to cock back an AK-47 and shoot a politician in the face. /joke

Originally Posted by The Invisible Man

Why the hell would we need to have a (violent?) revolution to change this country?

1) Like it has been noted, nobody gives a damn enough to actually use violence.
2) There's a magical election system that Americans can use to change who represents them. If you truly desire to follow the path of the founding fathers then spread the word first, not the bullets.

EDIT: Or we could unite with Canada. I wouldn't mind that.

As Guerilla said, a violent revolution is ultimately a futile act these days. It would be a bloody downhill battle. Voting, however does not work either. For the most part, there are two parties to choose from and both of them are owned by major money interests, both are corrupted, and in many ways both are working together to secure their own position. Also, I'm not sure if you are aware, but relatively recently there was an important supreme court decision that overturned the limits on corporate spending for campaign finances.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/us.../22scotus.html

This means that whoever spends the most money essentially decides who is going to be elected.

Whilest voting will accomplish nothing, a revolution would probably
neither. I don't think highly enough of humanity in terms of 'reasonable'
that I would think things would really change. It is a new way of thinking
that we need. Because the danger I see, as often proven by history, is
the revolutionaries becoming the opressors. What I mean is that a
revolution - and I'm talking revolution by force - gives room for an even
more corrupt government. Also people don't even seem to be able to
agree on what it is that needs change, or what it is the government does.

I would like to venture another question:
Seeing how governments/corporations of other countries kind of behave
the same and since we know that if a system gives room for exploitation, it
will be exploited - Is it right to go after the individual instead of the system
itself? If you're picking up the people from the top, wouldn't it just be a
matter of some time until the same things happen again and the root
cause would have been ignored,... again?

Other than that I welcome any kind of criticism of our today political or
economical system, I as well often start debating it and think it is of high
importance to be aware of all (or as much as possible) of what's going on.

With that said, I'll post some links of things I can think of right now:

How PR Sold the War in the Persian Gulf.
http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy10.html

Noam Chomsky - Emerging Framework of World Power
http://video.google.de/videoplay?doc...8&hl=de&emb=1#
(You can find loads of his on google video)

Naomi Klein and Joseph Stiglitz on Economic Power
http://fora.tv/2008/10/20/Naomi_Klei...Economic_Power

Dr. Michael Parenti - Terrorism, Globalism and Conspiracy
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...chael+Parenti#

Constitution Overturned by HR6166
http://iusbpreface.wordpress.com/200...ed-by-hr-6166/

President's Detention Plan Tests American Legal Traditions
http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=ht...mQ5EJQ225%28gO
(You have to pay for access now,... but just research Obama's Detention Plan)

Some good stuff on here:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/

John Swinton on the independent press
http://www.constitution.org/pub/swinton_press.htm

GlobalEurope Anticipation Bulletin
http://www.leap2020.eu/English_r25.html

Collaborative EU-Project for surveillance of citizens
http://www.indect-project.eu/

I'm praying for rain.
I'm praying for tidal waves.
I wanna see the ground give way.
I wanna watch it all go down.
Mom please flush it all away.
I wanna see it go right in and down.
I wanna watch it go right in.
Watch you flush it all away.

Time to bring it down again.
Don't just call me pessimist
try and read between the lines.

"If voting could change the system, it would be illegal"

"If not voting could change the system, it would be illegal"

~RAW

The real question is if violence and voting won't work what should we do? I suggest fucking in the streets and LSD in the water supply.

We could always move to a less corrupt country...

uh... Canada?

Originally Posted by The Invisible Man

EDIT: Or we could unite with Canada. I wouldn't mind that.

Oh yeah, Canadians would want that .

I just think Americans need to voice their dissatisfaction more. Whenever the government passes some frankly unacceptable legislation (like that unlimited corporate political funding crap), all the people do is whine a bit and then accept the situation and everything blows over.

You look at places like France and whenever their government fucks up, people are flooding the streets and flipping cars. I'm not suggesting violence, just persistently oppose bad decisions until something is done.

Originally Posted by The Invisible Man

We could always move to a less corrupt country...

uh... Canada?

no Hawaii( still USA but it's far away from the mainland )...or Japan, or maybe modern Eygpt/Nubia. I've never been out of the country so I don't know what it's like out there.

Originally Posted by stonedape

"If voting could change the system, it would be illegal"

"If not voting could change the system, it would be illegal"

~RAW

The real question is if violence and voting won't work what should we do? I suggest fucking in the streets and LSD in the water supply.

I personally believe that we should learn from the sit-in revolution of the 60's and 70's and modify it to fit a globalist society. A globalist sit-in requires nothing less than complete non-participation in the current paradigm becoming as wide spread as possible. This means growing the percentage of non-voting, non-spending citizens that do not pay taxes and do not benefit nor hurt the global market in any significant way. Get as many people as you can to relieve themselves of debt, start producing their own food as much as possible, and remove themselves from the money infrastructure in as many other ways as they can. Reject the dollar as a viable means of exchange and learn to be self sufficient while building internally sustainable communities.

In short:

All we must do to escape materialism is engineer a world in which it need not exist.

The question is, how many would be willing to be a part of this movement?

We could start small, set an example. Growing our food, however, requires land. I'm not sure how well this is going to work for those who do not live in houses with some amount of land, namely in the cities. But self-sustainability outside of the financial infrastructure has been appealing to me for a long time now.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

You talk about revolution, but maybe that's what the enemies of America want. If revolution were to occur, the United States as a powerful, unified entity would crumble, bringing down all that we, as freedom-loving people, believe in.

Europe would still be here.

The eternal bastion and stronghold of civilisation.

But Europe isn't really any better...

That's what I meant though. People's opinions on
what needs to be improved or changed or abolished
are so incredibly diverse... and that's why I essentially
agree with Invader. A goal of mine is to become self-
sustained at one point in my life - and by living examplatory
I hope it may be possible to inspire alternative thinking
and therefore a shift in... the basic thoughts of cultural
understanding. It would be a very slow process, but
I just don't see anything else last for very long.