May 2008 (LHC) Particle Accelerator - Miracle or Catastrophe?

[Jeff777]

The entire particle physics community is counting down to May like it was their birthday, Christmas and the Second Coming of the Lord all wrapped up in a clutch of Superbowls. It's when the Large Hadron Collider comes online, but while most are hoping for data and praying for the bashful Higgs boson to finally show it's tiny little face, some Russian mathematicians are warning that we might get more than we bargained for. Specifically, time-travellers: futurenauts using our ultra-duper atomsmasher to punch a hole in causality and hop back from the future. The idea dates back to Einstein's explanation that spacetime can be deformed by large energies or masses. Since the Large Hadron Collider is atwenty-six kilometer ring of superconducting magnets designed to do nothing but give a particle as large an energy as possible, that sounds like it could be an issue. Small deformations in spacetime (like Earth) give us the force of gravity, severe deformations give the cosmological trash compacting black holes, and an extreme case could cause a wormhole - a link between two points as spacetime folds over to touch itself (no sniggering). When asked about this risk, CERN scientists just look at the sky - but they aren't daydreaming, they're providing a counter example. Even the most massive human experiment is a pale imitation of the galactic-sized particle accelerators that fire cosmic radiation at us daily, and with all that high-energy activity in the sky if techno-mutants from the year Q4099 did want to invade they wouldn't have to hang around supercooled Genevese caverns to do it. The Russians aren't the first to raise concerns over the "Let's bang these things together REALLY HARD" school of research - Dr Walter Wagner has been campaigning for years to stall the LHC program until someone can convince him that turning it on won't detonate the universe. He accuses the scientists involved of downplaying the risks, using his own kind of maths to "show" a 10% chance of everything ever going kablooey. The basic formula is "it's very unlikely BUT it would kill EVERYTHING so that multiplies up the risk", which might sound reasonable, but by the same argument I could say "Nobody eat apples in case one contains a rare virus that could RENDER EVERYONE IN THE WORLD STERILE". He even has a donation site to raise money for legal action, but considering he's going up against a five billion dollar twenty-country co-operative project, his chances of winning are even unlikelier than his fears. (actual image of the LHC) article taken from: http://dad2059.wordpress.com/2008/02...d-time-travel/ Thoughts?

[Sanquis]

Ahhh! We're all gonna DAI! No- seriously. I read something about a time-travel machine been invented on the radio. But it all sounds pretty sci-fi doesn't it?

[Oneironaut Zero]

I've been anxious to see what the Hadron could do, ever since I read about it last year. I say bring it on.

[Adrenaline Junkie]

I can't wait to see this, it could really be an advancement for our understanding. I really cannot wait for this thing to go online. Its an opportunity to learn more about ourselves and where we came from.

[Riot Maker]

Yeah i never heard of this before but it all sounds sci-fi. Never thought i would see the day we could petentially destroy the universe. 22km long thats friggen crazy. They should sell tickets to this, if they did they would probally break even.

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Yeah i never heard of this before but it all sounds sci-fi. Never thought i would see the day we could petentially destroy the universe. 22km long thats friggen crazy. They should sell tickets to this, if they did they would probally break even. No, its real, not science fiction. With it recreating the first moments of the big bang they may be able to find out information on the origins of the universe. Interesting stuff if you ask me, its a risk well worth taking if you ask me, the dangers are very very VERY slim.

[Man of Shred]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fJ6P...x=0&playnext=1 here is a playlist for a seried a videos about the LHC.

[Cyclic13]

Wouldn't it be funny if we inadvertently were the explanation for that which we were trying to explain? We end up being god, creating itself and falling back into it's own creation. Only to spring up somewhere else trillions of years later to question how we got there and find out that in some remote part of the galaxy everything seemed to have sprung up from an empty point in space, that we now call 'earth', so we attempt to recreate it on that planet. And the circle of paradoxical questions and answers continues. Wheee... The god particle

[Universal Mind]

The experiment has been postponed to December 21, 2012.

[Cyclic13]

That would be great, wouldn't it? [Edit: I know where you got this topic idea Jeff... fan of theduderinok on youtube much? I just checked out his recent upload yesterday, and saw this and smiled.]

[Man of Shred]

Solskye, I had this on playlist and jeff asked me what i was listening to. so i guess he checked it out.

[Jeff777]

Yeah, theduderinok has good stuff.

[CoLd BlooDed]

The experiment has been postponed to December 21, 2012. lmao UM. That made me laugh. SolSkye, that's really a crazy thing to think about. Cool. This machine, as unbelievable as it sounds, would be intense. What if we jumped into the future and there was nothing there? Or if humans were there, would they anticipate our arrival?

[juroara]

scientists can't even find a cure for aids, yet they think they can control time scientists don't even know everything about the bottom of the sea, yet they are so sure their theory of the big bang is 100% accurate? ? ? I mean the bottom of the sea is here and now and the big bang was when? yet they act like they can tell it to us like they were there scientists are vain and retarded. who pushes a red button without knowing what it really does? twelve year olds on an ego trip

[Cyclic13]

Hear Hear! *nods* I believe that above post calls for this...

[Pyrofan1]

scientists are vain and retarded exactly! science never gave us anything good, except for things such as TVs, computers and modern medicine.

[Jeff777]

exactly! science never gave us anything good, except for things such as TVs, computers and modern medicine. Citation dubious.

[Oneironaut Zero]

scientists can't even find a cure for aids, yet they think they can control time scientists don't even know everything about the bottom of the sea, yet they are so sure their theory of the big bang is 100% accurate? ? ? I mean the bottom of the sea is here and now and the big bang was when? yet they act like they can tell it to us like they were there scientists are vain and retarded. who pushes a red button without knowing what it really does? twelve year olds on an ego trip That's actually a pretty ignorant thing to say about "scientists, in general" as if "scientists" are a cult of one mind that all believe the same thing and have the same agendas. "Scientists" are people that look at things and explore things through a scientific perspective. Many of them disagree on the same theories and principles, though they use the same analytical principles to try to find the basis of certain things. So to try to throw a blanket over "scientists" as if they are all in opposition to what you believe (even if what you believe is the "spiritual") is just not accurate at all.

[Cyclic13]

Here's the recent Coast to Coast interview with Investigative mythologist William Henry talking about this very topic... Henry's investigation in Abydos, Egypt uncovered depictions of the 'Osiris Device,' which he described as a kind of a energy tower that could also serve as a teleporter for light beings. Upcoming experiments at CERN with the Large Hadron Collider seek to recreate the conditions just after the Big Bang. Is humankind on the verge of discovering the primordial secrets of God-- seeing the light of first creation?, Henry pondered. Ultimately, humans have the ability to transform themselves through consciousness into light beings, he asserted. Part 1; Part 2; Part 3; Part 4; Part 5; Part 6; Part 7; Part 8; Part 9; Part 10; Part 11

[wasup]

I'd also like to point out that he is saying he doesn't understand how his perception of "Complex scientific discoveries" could have been discoveried by what he believes to be more simple ones. Just because your mind can't comprehend it, doesn't mean it's complex (or simple, I suppose). Furthermore, you should RESEARCH things before you make rather retarded assertions about them. Let me give you a simplified example that represents the big bang versus the bottom of the ocean. Over your head, you hear a loud rumbling noise, and a minute later you look up and see a long trail of streamer clouds following it. You can probably figure out that that was a plane, right? In your hand, you have a box. This box is solid titanium, and it completely encases a small piece of paper that had a poem written on it. Get to the poem. Does it make sense for me to tell you you are "retarded" because you can't get to the box right in front of you. Proximity in time and location is not a prerequisite for scientific apparentness. If you research, you will find the big bang was "discovered" in a similar way: by observing it's after effects, and looking "in the past" (we can actually see light from it that occurred very soon after it, still). Take this line. ______________x If you had to describe the line position on X, wouldn't you say it would be _? That is another method basically used by the big bang scientists -- extrapolation. I don't want to make you think it is all guess work though... do some RESEARCH before you make assertions about it. They aren't just throwing ideas out there and claiming they are "100% correct." Simply put, the big bang is an extremely well-researched, documented, and supported theory, and the best one we have. The people who criticize science the most have no idea how it is is done.

[bluefinger]

scientists can't even find a cure for aids, yet they think they can control time scientists don't even know everything about the bottom of the sea, yet they are so sure their theory of the big bang is 100% accurate? ? ? I mean the bottom of the sea is here and now and the big bang was when? yet they act like they can tell it to us like they were there scientists are vain and retarded. who pushes a red button without knowing what it really does? twelve year olds on an ego trip So how is trying to understand and quantify the various workings of the universe an ego trip? Scientists aren't gods, so of course they don't know everything. That is why they do stuff like this, in order to find proof for whatever hypothesis and theory they have. Experimentation and Research are vital in order to progress with discovery. Without Science, we would have never understood nor come up with Quantum Mechanics, without which we would not have computers. Scientists may not know everything, but they don't assume they know everything. And Scientists do know more or less what will happen when they flick on the switch to LHC, since they've done a HELL of a lot of designing and theoretical work for LHC. They just aren't sure if it will find the elusive particles they wish to see. If not, then Scientists see that either LHC is not big enough or simply see that the Higg's Boson just does not exist and another hypothesis/theory has to be drawn up in order to explain mass. If they do, well, experiment is a success and we understand the workings of the universe more clearly. So at least Scientists are trying to further our knowledge and understanding of the world and universe. That hardly constitutes an ego trip.

[Cyclic13]

ETERNITY!!!

[Pyrofan1]

nor come up with Quantum Mechanics, without which we would not have computers. modern day computers do not involve Quantum Mechanics.

[Cyclic13]

Hurray for pettiness, and that feeling the need to constantly one-up people... Just look at all them ego-filled posts, and that much ado about nothing...Yay! Leggo that ego...

[Man of Shred]

Hurray for pettiness, and that feeling to constantly one-up people... Just look at all them ego-filled posts, and much ado about nothing...Yay! Leggo that eggo... Yeah i dunno why people do that. Always try to have one-up on you. It's really annoying. these people know nothing about social vibing. Are they insecure? eg1 Good conversaton: Friend 1: wow I've never been to a city like Toronto before. these building are huge! Freind2: Yeah. man they are pretty sweet. wait till we drive in farther so we can see them old style houses. eg2: The guy you just wanna smack: Friend 1: wow I've never been to a city like Toronto before. these building are huge! Freind2: bahh not really the ones in NYC were way bigger.