Thread: Shit hits the fan in Korea

Originally Posted by Spartiate

No you obviously did not read. I said that if China were to attack the US in Korea (i.e. fought on North Korea's side), do you really believe that the first course of action for the US would be to nuke Chinese cities? Use your head, the military is not in the business of leveling cities and killing civilians.

Nope. I did not say they would be the first resort, I said if we really really need it, meaning a last resort. Japan was also a last resort.

Not in places like Iraq, where there isn't a real army for us to be fighting. And even when there is a clear enemy we still level the cities around them.

Wow, you people seriously have no clue about geo-politics. Likewise, you assume the whole U.N. will pounce on North Korea if it attacks South Korea.

The facts are that a South Korean vessel sank and no one knows how or why. The news put out by South Korea is that they recovered a torpedo fragment with North Korean serial numbers on it, which is the supposed proof in the pudding. Anyone see a picture of the torpedo fragment with the North Korean serial number on it? No, because it is most likely fabricated to gear the citizens to beat their drums for war. The operative word is naive.

Now lets play "what if". If a torpedo fragment was recovered with North Korean serial numbers on it, there still isn't a guarantee it was North Korea. It could have been a covert operation done by the U.S. or Russia or some other unknown country for a hidden agenda. On top of that, what would be the purpose of North Korea sinking a South Korean vessel, then denying it? It is illogical, especially since they are already catching flak for having nukes. The news being broadcasted about how "history shows North Korea does this all the time, so evidently North Korea is guilty for sinking the South Korean vessel" is completely propaganda to get citizens psychologically fixated on blaming North Korea without any evidence being presented.

Geo-politically, China backs North Korea. North Korea serves as a buffer zone in-case China were to ever be invaded by the West. If North Korea ends up launching an all out first strike on South Korea, it would only do so with the blessing of China. Like-wise, if South Korea ends up launching an all out first strike on North Korea, it would only do so with the blessing of the U.S.. What is really going on is covert war between the U.S. and China where they are strategizing on the perfect move.

Neither North Korea or South Korea will get approval for a first strike until it is time for when the world economy will collapse. Why is this? China's economy and the U.S. economy are severely entwined. If the two ever went to war against each other, both would be screwed economically. Not only would both be screwed economically, but the world economy would collapse. The sad part is that China retains somewhat of a upper hand in this scenario because it produces good, which the U.S. mostly just uses goods. This makes China more self sufficient than the U.S. if ties were ever severed between the two. I ponder how food would play in impacting China, since I would think the U.S. would be more self sufficient in this aspect.

Now another thing to look at is the U.N.. The U.N. is a joke. The reason South Korea wants China to pick their side is because China's vote is needed for any U.N. action to be taken against North Korea. This will not happen as I specified why above. At the most in a fantasy setting, NATO might pounce on North Korea, but if that happens, it guarantees the big boys are going to tussle, resulting in a World War.

Again, we will play "what if". What if I'm wrong and I don't know what I'm talking about? If North Korea doesn't have backing from China and it goes to war with South Korean, then that would mean North Korea has to take on both South Korea and the U.S.. North Korea is guaranteed to lose. Since it is guaranteed to lose, it will use its nukes on South Korea as a kill switch. Point being, that either way, China has to back North Korea unless it wants a radioactive cloud at its backyard or wants its backdoor wide open for a ground invasion.

My thoughts on the South Korean vessel sinking? I think it is too much of a coincidence with everything that is going on in the world. I also think North Korea will launch an all out first strike on South Korea, though on a technicality South Korea has already launched a first strike on North Korea which is being excused by blaming North Korea for supposedly sinking of the South Korea vessel. All North Korea is waiting on is China's consent, which China is just sitting on the fence watching the battlefield to see when it is most suitable. Actions speak louder than words, which patience is virtue.

I would like to see this mythical torpedo fragment.

Best picture of the torpedo I can find so far. I saw it in a video somewhere else.


Also, here is food for thought:



That video was posted last year. This doesn't indicate it isn't a conspiracy of some sort, I just wanted to add that dimension. Really, they could have sunk the ship for any number of reasons. Just because what they are doing does not seem logical at face value, does not mean it has no place in the greater scheme.

Naval skirmishes between the North and South aren't exactly uncommon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_wars

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Naval skirmishes between the North and South aren't exactly uncommon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_wars

Of course, but that doesn't mean North Korea sank the South Korean vessel. Likewise, that Wikipedia entry for 2010 is a joke.

You sound like the North Korean Central News Agency .

Originally Posted by Spartiate

You sound like the North Korean Central News Agency .

Jeez, thanks. Likewise, you sound like the South Korean Central News Agency.

I'm just raising valid points. In all actuality, my stance is neutral in the matter, which I'm sharing dissected information for think-tanking.

On the news, it said china will side with SK if they can prove NK sank their ship. Which means NK is going down if there is a war.

Originally Posted by YYNYM

On the news, it said china will side with SK if they can prove NK sank their ship. Which means NK is going down if there is a war.

It could also mean that China knows South Korea is full of crap. It is kind of like saying "I'll pay you one million dollars, if you can prove pigs fly".

Originally Posted by ArcanumNoctis

It could also mean that China knows South Korea is full of crap. It is kind of like saying "I'll pay you one million dollars, if you can prove pigs fly".

LOL. You're probably right.

Yes, but an neutral party has also given evidence suggesting it was NK's fault. China is swaying towards South Korea's side.

Big brother China isn't gonna let anything happen. You can be sure that China really won't stand for anything. The last thing they need is two kids fighting on their front lawn, with the possibility that it would fuck things up with the USA, their favorite investment.

Yeah USA and China need to work together to not let any shit happen...

But sorry to say with those deuchebags there in North Korea we really can't keep them stay in a power I dont think... There just not mentally stable.

Originally Posted by jarrhead

Ninja is right.

If China goes with NK, they're all screwed, we're all screwed, and they'll be dead. I mean with 1 billion in an area the size of three of today's nuclear warheads.. we can kill over a billion in minutes.

Then the entire UN goes against NK, and in effect china.

Now of course we refrain from using nuclear weaponry but when shit hits the fan for real it will be done. Just ask Japan. When we had baby bombs 200-300x less powerful than today's.

Jarrhead the post whore is still on here? Did you ever make it to pandora?

Haha a few times. Never did what I wanted to though...

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Same reason rednecks need a lot of big guns: to compensate for a small penis. The presidents who authorized the building of such huge numbers all had one.

Yeah, that's the full explanation. You've solved the world's nuclear struggle issue. All we have to do is elect leaders with big dicks. Let's impose an 8 inch minimum.

A heck of a lot of what you said is pretty valid, Arcum, except the whole point about China being more self-sufficient than the U.S. China is very much a consumer nation. And the U.S. is still the worlds largest producer in many respects. If we had to go independent, we would be poorly equipped to handle the lack of oil scenario, sure, (though we are the world's leader in natural gas, wind energy, and a million other alternative energies,) but China would be equally screwed. Hydroelectric power wouldn't be enough for them.

And as far as food produced per person? Both of our countries are pretty much global hotshots as far as our capacity to grow food. China and America are both energy dependent, consumer/producer nations with plenty of food. Except we, (the U.S.,) are so vastly militarily superior a one-on-one war would be a joke. They have massive numbers, sure, but old tyme war is over. Technology is the trump card.

Originally Posted by spockman

Except we, (the U.S.,) are so vastly militarily superior a one-on-one war would be a joke. They have massive numbers, sure, but old tyme war is over. Technology is the trump card.

Don't be fooled, China has a hell of a military.













Although there's next to 0 chance of China getting into a war with the US, I'm pretty sure that the US would not be able to win against them in Asia, especially with all its resources tied up in the middle east.

Spoiler for Spartiate's Post:

Don't be fooled, China has a hell of a military.













Although there's next to 0 chance of China getting into a war with the US, I'm pretty sure that the US would not be able to win against them in Asia, especially with all its resources tied up in the middle east.

Sure, they have a good military. But against ours, it is a hopeless cause. They can have over twice our soldier count. They can have tank battalions and fleets of battle ships and planes. But the olden tyme style of combat is obsolete. We can sink ship after ship with stealth bombers. Our anti aircraft and turret guns can down their planes, and the ones that make it past instant explosion will get shot down by superior fighters in the sky. Their troop numbers doesn't mean a whole lot in a war about destroying another nations military. So many things and people would just blow up...

We wouldn't have to beat them in Asia. We wouldn't have to occupy them. If we fought, we would just decimate them in pure combat every time.

But, yeah. It is not in either of our best interests to do so.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Don't be fooled, China has a hell of a military.

Although there's next to 0 chance of China getting into a war with the US, I'm pretty sure that the US would not be able to win against them in Asia, especially with all its resources tied up in the middle east.

You know that we could turn China into a big black spot in under an hour, right? I really hope we don't, but we could.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You know that we could turn China into a big black spot in under an hour, right? I really hope we don't, but we could.

Yeah. I am not trying to sound arrogant, but the U.S. has the strongest military in the world, hands down. We spend about as much on our armed forces as the rest of the world combined. Not quite, but close enough.

Originally Posted by spockman

Sure, they have a good military. But against ours, it is a hopeless cause. They can have over twice our soldier count. They can have tank battalions and fleets of battle ships and planes. But the olden tyme style of combat is obsolete. We can sink ship after ship with stealth bombers. Our anti aircraft and turret guns can down their planes, and the ones that make it past instant explosion will get shot down by superior fighters in the sky. Their troop numbers doesn't mean a whole lot in a war about destroying another nations military. So many things and people would just blow up...

We wouldn't have to beat them in Asia. We wouldn't have to occupy them. If we fought, we would just decimate them in pure combat every time.

But, yeah. It is not in either of our best interests to do so.

What I'm trying to say is that Chinese military technology is way more advanced than you think it is. The US does have an edge, but it's not as decisive as you make it sound. Hell, China even has ICBMs that can reach the continental US.